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What is everybody's favorite builds?
For a Fighter, with Berserk as an attack option, I would say that Strength and Dexterity first, then Speed and Senses. Intelligence and Piety are almost useless, and Vitality is icing on the icing on the cake (the Fighter gets the best hit points by a mile, way ahead of his closest competitors, the Lord and Valkyrie, while the latter are going to be 2 or 3 levels behind, further widening the gap). Also, he gets the best armor in the game. He should invest in Close Combat, and whatever weapon skills are best (Sword and Mace and Flail come to mind in vanilla). Obviously, Dual Weapons skill is a must on the Fighter not using Polearms. Shield skill is debatable, as it takes away from his Berserking with two weapons. Ranged Combat and Bow seem to be the best choices as well, as the Fighter has an ability to KO not just on melee attacks, but ranged as well. Also, he gets a damage bonus from Strength for using Bows.
The Rogue gets Backstabbing automatically, dealing significant melee damage. Same as the Fighter, he should go with Strength and Dexterity first, then Speed and Senses. With a high enough Stealth skill, he won't be targeted in combat, negating the need for a shield, or even the Vitality stat (as selfish as it is, the Rogue passes attacks onto his teammates). It's almost universal consensus that the Rogue should dual wield, most likely with a Sword and Dagger (I don't think that he can use two-handed weapons anyways, so the decision should already be made).
The Bard and Gadgeteer are jack-of-all-trade characters, being decent in melee, ranged, and magic attacks (though not as good as more specialized trades). Same as the others, they don't benefit much from Intelligence and Piety, and Vitality is retroactive, meaning that they won't lose hit points from investing in it late. Therefore, with the lack of good two-handed weapons, the choice comes down to Sword and Shield, or dual wield. They don't have the Mace and Flail weapon ability (no Mauler/Diamond Eyes), nor can they use the Rogue only Thieves Dagger, so their offhand weapon selection is minimal (Stiletto in the off hand). Also, they don't deal the raw melee damage of the Fighter or Rogue (no Berserking/Backstabbing). In my opinion, they would be best as Sword and Shield users.
The casters (Bishop, Priest, Alchemist, Psionic, Mage) are only going to be at best, tier 3 fighters at both melee and ranged, so I wouldn't prioritize fighting stats with them (Strength, Vitality, Dexterity). I would say go with what makes them best at casting, Intelligence, Piety, Speed, Senses. This unlocks Powercast, Iron Will, Snake Speed, and Eagle Eye, making them good at magic damage, magic resistance, going first, and hitting with their slings (actually dealing some physical damage, while having the chance of KO, kill, paralyze).
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RChu1982: What is everybody's favorite builds?
Currently replaying the game with the following party:

Fighter / Dracon. Emphasis is on STR / DEX / VIT when leveling up 3 / 2 / 1 points. He has the cursed berserker sword from Arnika since he can opt to use Dragon Breath. Front of the party.

Samurai / Felpur. Emphasis is on SPD / SEN / DEX. Skill focus is Critical Strike, Dual Weapons, and Close Combat. Front of the party.

Gadgeteer / Mook. Emphasis is on SEN / DEX / INT. Skill focus on Engineering, Modern Weapons, and Lock & Traps. I extensively use the Lightning Rod from the Monastery to build Eng skill. Also I am mostly agoraphobic until I can build a Lava Lamp. Female of course. Left or right wing of party.

Bard / Hobbit. Emphasis is on DEX / INT / STR. Skill focus on Music with probably the balance going on Ranged Combat. I use the Viola D'Amore to shamelessly increase Music skill at every opportunity in Arnika and beyond. Female of course. Left or right wing of party.

Alchemist / Gnome. Emphasis is on INT / PIE / DEX. I like the money making opportunities of course. Plan is to give the Throwable items to the character with a good throwing skill. Centre of party.

Bishop / Elf. Emphasis is on INT / PIE. Trying to cover off the other 3 spell books. Using the Alchemist to generate the cash to buy as many spell books as are available to generate spell points. Centre of party.

RPCs. Vitalia of course placed in the middle of the party with an extended range polearm. Myles temporarily while making a bee line to recruit RFS-81 who goes in the front rank with the Fighter & Samurai.
Deleting repeat posts so as not to anger the character gods (I couldn't post under the old system, having quoted everybody else).
Vitality is minimized on your Fighter, having only 1 point into it at level up, this is ok. I can see why you would want his hit points at max, getting clobbered all the time, and eventually getting Iron Skin. You would probably want to invest in Speed and Senses at some point, getting better initiative, and more swings and attacks.
I don't have much experience with Samurai, as I don't like hybrids except for the Ranger with his auto-scout, ranged crits, and Alchemy. I guess your Samurai is ok? Except that Intelligence is ignored, meaning his Wizardry magic will suffer without Powercast, unless you're using him for buffs (Missile Shield, Enchanted Blade, X-Ray).
Do not put points into Intelligence on your Gadgeteer. Both Bards and Gadgeteers do not benefit from Powercast at all, and Intelligence does almost nothing by itself (a small increase in Mental realm resistance above 80 doesn't justify it, IMO). Also, consider the Tripleshot Crossbow instead. It benefits from Strength, in terms of damage (unlike Modern Weapons), gives +2 extra attacks per round, and won't cause annoying things like blind and fear, that make enemies run away, prolonging combat unncecessarily.
Again with the Bard, for the same reason above, ignore Intelligence. Bards can be great at both melee and ranged with better fighting attributes (Strength, Dexterity, Speed, Senses).
The Alchemist is ok. I gave my Alchemist the Staff of Doom, so he could hit from the center formation with extended range.
The thing with Bishops is, they're nearly useless until they can get all their spellbooks bought. Then, they're a powerhouse. You might not even need Piety for them, because they can get 101 spells, giving them a huge mana pool. Consider Speed or Senses to make them faster in combat, after maxing Intelligence and Piety, of course.
Time to try posting this again without the quotes. Since it did not upload the first time. Quoted text in italics, except they don't seem to work either. Will do it the old fashioned way with quotation marks.

"Vitality is minimized on your Fighter, having only 1 point into it at level up, this is ok. I can see why you would want his hit points at max, getting clobbered all the time, and eventually getting Iron Skin. You would probably want to invest in Speed and Senses at some point, getting better initiative, and more swings and attacks."

Once STR and DEX are maxed then SPD and SEN will be augmented.

"I don't have much experience with Samurai, as I don't like hybrids except for the Ranger with his auto-scout, ranged crits, and Alchemy. I guess your Samurai is ok? Except that Intelligence is ignored, meaning his Wizardry magic will suffer without Powercast, unless you're using him for buffs (Missile Shield, Enchanted Blade, X-Ray)."

The plan was to use the Samurai to buff I subsequently dropped it in favour of the Bishop spending effort to learn the Mage book (in addition to Divine and Psionic). Most skill points put into Critical Strike and I am now choosing to have him work on Throwing skill to take advantage of thrown criticals.

"Do not put points into Intelligence on your Gadgeteer. Both Bards and Gadgeteers do not benefit from Powercast at all, and Intelligence does almost nothing by itself (a small increase in Mental realm resistance above 80 doesn't justify it, IMO). Again with the Bard, for the same reason above, ignore Intelligence. Bards can be great at both melee and ranged with better fighting attributes (Strength, Dexterity, Speed, Senses)."

I guess my question is how do you know that? The game and manual both indicate that INT is a requirement for Music and Engineering. Plus the effects that these skills create are spells so why wouldn't Powercast apply?

"Also, consider the Tripleshot Crossbow instead. It benefits from Strength, in terms of damage (unlike Modern Weapons), gives +2 extra attacks per round, and won't cause annoying things like blind and fear, that make enemies run away, prolonging combat unncecessarily."

This is something that I need to consider. I usually standardize on Arrows and Bullets to keep the logistics simpler. Also somewhat concerned over too rapid ammunition consumption.

What I find in play is that I start the game many times and never finish. Get to about the Rapax areas and lose interest. Wait a year or two and start it from scratch again.
Post edited April 15, 2023 by brozo
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RChu1982: Deleting repeat posts so as not to anger the character gods (I couldn't post under the old system, having quoted everybody else).
Vitality is minimized on your Fighter, having only 1 point into it at level up, this is ok. I can see why you would want his hit points at max, getting clobbered all the time, and eventually getting Iron Skin. You would probably want to invest in Speed and Senses at some point, getting better initiative, and more swings and attacks.
I don't have much experience with Samurai, as I don't like hybrids except for the Ranger with his auto-scout, ranged crits, and Alchemy. I guess your Samurai is ok? Except that Intelligence is ignored, meaning his Wizardry magic will suffer without Powercast, unless you're using him for buffs (Missile Shield, Enchanted Blade, X-Ray).
Do not put points into Intelligence on your Gadgeteer. Both Bards and Gadgeteers do not benefit from Powercast at all, and Intelligence does almost nothing by itself (a small increase in Mental realm resistance above 80 doesn't justify it, IMO). Also, consider the Tripleshot Crossbow instead. It benefits from Strength, in terms of damage (unlike Modern Weapons), gives +2 extra attacks per round, and won't cause annoying things like blind and fear, that make enemies run away, prolonging combat unncecessarily.
Again with the Bard, for the same reason above, ignore Intelligence. Bards can be great at both melee and ranged with better fighting attributes (Strength, Dexterity, Speed, Senses).
The Alchemist is ok. I gave my Alchemist the Staff of Doom, so he could hit from the center formation with extended range.
The thing with Bishops is, they're nearly useless until they can get all their spellbooks bought. Then, they're a powerhouse. You might not even need Piety for them, because they can get 101 spells, giving them a huge mana pool. Consider Speed or Senses to make them faster in combat, after maxing Intelligence and Piety, of course.
Fighters do not need any Vitality investment. Thing is, early on it doesn't make much difference, and later on, in my experience, you have enough HP that you don't need more Vitality. Furthermore, Heal Wounds, even at PL 7, is not going to be able to heal all those hit points with a single cast, so much of the benefit of high HP is no longer important. Take the points you'd spend there and put them elsewhere. The 50 Vitality required to gain access to this class is more than you'll ever need.

Samurai, I find, tend to not be that good. The problem is that their main weapon type is swords, and if you only consider items that are either buyable or reliably available, there's a lack of good swords. Really, your only options are Bloodlust (cursed, and aside from its auto-Berserk it isn't that strong), Fang (not that strong, and requires getting past the Sorceress Queen), and the Giant's Sword (nice weapon, but heavy and only usable by Mooks). If you do decide to use a Samurai, I recommend making them a Mook for the Giant's Sword, and the most important spells to get are Enchanted Blade, Missile Shield, X-Ray, and the portal spells. (Note that I'd generally only recommend Samurai if you don't have someone else to cover those spells and would rather have a fighter-type in that slot.)

Tripleshot Crossbow is heavy. The combination of a heavy weapon and lots of attacks will drain Stamina really quickly, so be ready with multiple characters who can cast Stamina and Rest All.

Bishops aren't so useless early on if you spend your spell picks early on rather than saving them; it also helps to focus on one or two spellbooks early and add more later, though sometimes it can be tricky to find good single-school spells for some of them.

Also, I do not recommend Piety for Bishops, or for casters in general. Early game it doesn't do much good, and later on you have so many spells that Piety still doesn't matter much (Piety only stacks additively with the SP from spells known).
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brozo: "Do not put points into Intelligence on your Gadgeteer. Both Bards and Gadgeteers do not benefit from Powercast at all, and Intelligence does almost nothing by itself (a small increase in Mental realm resistance above 80 doesn't justify it, IMO). Again with the Bard, for the same reason above, ignore Intelligence. Bards can be great at both melee and ranged with better fighting attributes (Strength, Dexterity, Speed, Senses)."

I guess my question is how do you know that? The game and manual both indicate that INT is a requirement for Music and Engineering. Plus the effects that these skills create are spells so why wouldn't Powercast apply?
As this hasn't been yet answered by dtgreene - it's established knowledge that INT doesn't do almost anything for music/engineering except making them level slightly faster (that's the "requirement" part from the manual). And powercast, which is unlocked after reaching 100 INT, is absolutely useless for those two skills, as it applies only to spells and not gadgets/instruments. It doesn't matter that gadgets/instruments cast spells - they're items and powercast simply doesn't apply.
Post edited April 16, 2023 by Hemaka
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Hemaka: As this hasn't been yet answered by dtgreene - it's established knowledge that INT doesn't do almost anything for music/engineering except making them level slightly faster (that's the "requirement" part from the manual). And powercast, which is unlocked after reaching 100 INT, is absolutely useless for those two skills, as it applies only to spells and not gadgets/instruments. It doesn't matter that gadgets/instruments cast spells - they're items and powercast simply doesn't apply.
Right then.

I guess that I should restart this one since I devoted a lot of points to INT for the Bard and Gadgeteer. Probably also ditch the Samurai in favour of a Ranger.

Not exactly a tank but should be able to hold the line.
It's a beginner's trap. New players think that, because Intelligence is a controlling attribute for both Music and Engineering, that increasing intelligence to get Powercast will help them. Wrong. As said before, DO NOT waste points in Intelligence, unless that character is a caster (not a Bard/Gadgeteer), that wants Powercast. Controlling attributes don't matter a whole lot, in the grand scheme of things, anyways. With enough training, your skills will max naturally.
Yes, the Tripleshot Crossbow is heavy. However, I am running a Magic Damage Party (MDP) with a Priest and Alchemist, both of which can cast Stamina, and the Priest can cast Rest All. The Bard and Gadgeteer have maxed Strength, and have average Piety and Vitality, so I have no problems with characters napping during combat.
I would recommend that your new Ranger go the path of the non-casters, Strength/Dexterity/Speed/Senses. His Alchemy magic will never be that good, unless you want to waste points in Intelligence to get Powercast with a -4 class penalty for being a hybrid. Go with what makes him good, getting maximum initiative, max number of swings/attacks, decent damage with bows (and possibly swords), decent carry capacity, decent stamina, max chance to hit (Strength, Dexterity, and Senses maxed gives you the best possible chance to hit, both in melee, and ranged).
To dtgreene: I'm running a MDP, without Bishops (Priest, Alchemist, Psionic, Mage, along with a Bard and Gadgeteer). Nobody will have the raw mana power of the Bishop (the Priest and Mage have 37 spells, and the Alchemist and Psionic have 36 spells). Therefore, Piety does add up for single-spellbook casters. I know, because I had to chug Magic Nectar potions like there was no tomorrow.
Edit: Also, for beginners, DO NOT raise Intelligence above 95 before visiting the Trynton Well (+5 Intelligence).
Otherwise, you will waste precious attribute points.
Also, maxing Piety grants Iron Will (my Mage with her 5% profession bonus, combined with maxed Iron Will, and Power level 7 Magic Screen, makes her basically immune to magic (100 resistance to all realms). The other casters will need the Cloak of Many Colors for that.
Post edited April 16, 2023 by RChu1982
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RChu1982: I would recommend that your new Ranger go the path of the non-casters, Strength/Dexterity/Speed/Senses. His Alchemy magic will never be that good, unless you want to waste points in Intelligence to get Powercast with a -4 class penalty for being a hybrid.
Some spells are still useful even without Powercast. In particular:
* Heal Wounds still heals enough HP to be useful, particularly since it is not subject to resistance.
* Element Shield can be quite helpful in some battles.
* The Portal spells are good to have.
* Resurrection, if you reach the level where you can learn it, is good to have, and doesn't need anything like Powercast to be worthwhile.
* Quicksand may not be useful against enemies that are serious threats, but it can work well if you happen to be fighting a lot of lower level enemies, especially if they have high HP (like lower level Rapax).
Wiz8 is so easy that unoptimized builds are fine. Generally, I like prioritizing:

INT
STR
DEX
SPD
SEN
VIT
PIE

With the caveat that INT is mostly useless save for power cast.

Skill allocation is less import, since grinding fixes that. Of course, not needing to grind is very nice for those who don't long for the mid-aughties free-2-play Korean MMOs. (Are points poured into book skills really necessary past a modified forty-five? Is fifty a fine stopping point for locks & traps?)
@dtgreene: Great minds think alike!
@ZyroMane: Attribute points are so precious, that I literally sacrificed Powercast, a skill so important to a Magic Damage Party (MDP), until extremely late in the game. My casters were at 95 Intelligence for so long, until level 27, when I finally felt that I could leave Arnika and brave the Arnika-Trynton Road. I ran to Trynton as fast as I could, getting that +5 to Intelligence from the Trynton Fountain. After that, I portaled back to Arnika, and only a few days ago maxed Powercast for all four of my specialist casters (Priest, Alchemist, Psionic, and Mage).
Personally, I like looking into more unusual builds, including, for example, trying to use either the character replace or class change features, which tend to get overlooked in this game (and most class changes are sub-optimal, anyway, though at least there are some cases where the trade-off favors the earlier game).

For character replacement, there's this build:
* Race: Fairy
* Class: Mage
* Stats: Focus on Speed and Senses
* Skills: The relevant spellcasting skills
* Important spells: Sleep, Emchanted Blade, Missile Shield, Freeze Flesh, Noxious Fumes
* Role: We have a very fast spellcaster. Therefore, we want to use spells that benefit from being able to be cast sooner; Freeze Flesh and Noxious Fumes are nice spells to be able to cast before the enemies get a chance to act. (Though, with that said, you likely *still* won't be able to act reliably before those Higardi rogue-types.) The one problem will be only being able to cast these spells at low power levels, and that Missile Shield and Noxious Fumes use the same SP (so Freeze Flesh might be preferred here). Enchanted Blade and Missile Shield are spells that you'll want covered, and you get them before Arnika Road with this build. No Powercast will hurt in the long run, and Fairies aren't that good later on when other races can use the Robe of Rejumenation, so that's why we replace this character later, perhaps with a Gadgeteer.
* Suitable parties: Any party that isn't otherwise going to have Enchanted Blade and Missile Shield covered early, like if your caster is a Samurai, or if you're trying to save Bishop spell picks.

For class change, here is an interesting build, for physical-oriented parties:
* Race: Human (haven't checked; there might be another decent choice)
* Class: Bishop to 11, then Fighter
* Stats: Focus on Strength and Dexterity (yes, on a Bishop)
* Skills: Wizardry and Divinity are the most important ones. You'll need 45 Wizardry and 30 Divinity by level 11, and 60 in one of the skills by level 11 as well. Can also look into boosting Mace & Flail, as that skill seems to have the best reliably available weapons.
* Important spells: Heal Wounds (of course), Stamina/Rest All, Cure Paralysis (maybe your other caster is paralyzed?), Enchanted Blade, Missile Shield, Armorplate, Magic Screen, X-Ray, Portal spells
* Other notes: Make sure to learn all the spells on the list at the time you reach level 11, if you don't have them before, as you won't be able to get them later. Also, make sure that you can cast the listed spells (except X-Ray and Portals) at PL7 before level 12, as you won't be able to improve them later (but note that you'll continue to gain some SP when you level up).
* Role: Early on, can provide some magic support, which this party may need. (In particular, Heal Wounds at level 1 is helpful when your other characters won't have access before level 5.) Later on, can provide all the important long-duration spells. Later on, can join your other characters in the front lines. The main weaknesses of the Bishop (3rd lowest HP, slow leveling) will become irrelevant once you start leveling up Fighter.
* Variation: Try replacing Fighter with a hybrid. You can change earlier if you'd like, if you don't mind not getting portals before level 15. Lord is a decent option because Mace & Flail, a good weapon skill for Lords, is available to Bishops. Other choices might not be as optimal, but could still work if the character has a chance to practice. (Worth noting that, if you go Ranger, you will be able to continue leveling Mental Magic via X-Ray once you start getting Ranger spells.)
* Suitable parties: Melee focused parties. If you do not want to spend a slot on a pure caster permanently, this can be a good choice. Build up the character as a melee Bishop, getting the spells a melee party will most need, and then later on you have a Fighter who can cast useful spells.

(Note that I have personally used the first of these builds, but not the second.)

Edit: The Bishop/Fighter isn't going to fall that far behind in levels. Early on, XP requirements double each level, while Bishops only need 60% more XP per level. Later on, the XP to gain a level will come from the Fighter table, and with the exponentially increasing XP requirements, the 60% extra for the Bishop levels becomes insignificant.
Post edited April 17, 2023 by dtgreene
Thinking about that second build, and doing some research about races:
* Human: You start with 20 bonus points, which means you can start with 52 Strength. This means that you'll max the stat at level 17.
* Dwarf: Actually not a good choice if you want Power Strike, as Dwarves start with only 45 Strength and -10 bonus points. This means you may only have 45 points at level 3, which would then take 19 levels to max out, pushing the skill back to 22. (Maybe 21 if you can raise Strength to 46 at level 3? I don't know the exact details of how the negative bonus point mechanic works.)
* Mook: Actually a decent choice. Base STR of 50, with 5 bonus points, and the game will let you put 3 of them into a single stat, giving you 53 Strength (one more than a Human, in fact, but doesn't speed up acquiring Power Strike). Just note that Speed will be low. As an added bonus, this character can use the Giant's Sword. As a second added bonus, this character will qualify for Ranger no matter what.(barring disease lowering stats). One catch, of course, is that you won't be able to raise Sword skill before class change.

Worth noting that the Fighter class is so powerful in this game that being a lower level is not that big of a deal, considering that:
* Bishop levels do count for something combat-wise, so you're not as weak as a fresh new character from scratch.
* At high levels, in my experience Fighters have more HP than necessary, so those levels will mitigate the poor HP gains from early Bishop levels.
* Melee combat isn't subject to enemy resistances, or any checks against class level, so the problems that plague offensive spellcasting and make it non-viable in multi-classed characters don't apply here.

Variation: Try starting as a Fighter. You get more HP at the cost of 1 spell pick and being a level behind spell wise (and needing to be a Bishop at level 12 if you want the Portal spells).
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RChu1982: @ZyroMane: Attribute points are so precious, that I literally sacrificed Powercast, a skill so important to a Magic Damage Party (MDP), until extremely late in the game. My casters were at 95 Intelligence for so long, until level 27, when I finally felt that I could leave Arnika and brave the Arnika-Trynton Road. I ran to Trynton as fast as I could, getting that +5 to Intelligence from the Trynton Fountain. After that, I portaled back to Arnika, and only a few days ago maxed Powercast for all four of my specialist casters (Priest, Alchemist, Psionic, and Mage).
Which means that the thought that expert skills aren't the most important is most likely mostly correct, speaking utmost. But I like damage, so...

I once rushed Tyrnton in a mage/psionic/alchemist/priest/rogue/fighter party. Not really worth it. Level ten or so is fine enough for power cast on a mage.

Aside: the way multiclass bishops work is absurd, and even just getting magic missiles on everyone is rather effective. But, so much more can be done with a good plan.
Correction: Dwarf actually starts with 55 Strength, so Dwarf Bishop will have 55 STR at level 3 (maybe slightly more; I don't know the actual mechanics for negative bonus points), and will get Power Strike at level 18.