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Niggles: They really arent the same and its quite unfair to paint them as such.
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Neobr10: Whoa, hold on there for a second. I never said that Kickstarter and Early Access are the same thing or even similar models. Please, read my post carefully. What i said is that both Kickstarter and Early Access offer more freedom to developers than a publisher ever would. And that is true.

By the way: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman
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Johnathanamz: I have my own definition what a DLC is and what a expansion pack is. Just like you have your own definition what a DLC is and what a expansion pack is. Lets just leave it that way ok? I don't want to argue about it anymore.
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Neobr10: It's not "my definition", it's the definition set by the modern gaming industry. That's objective, not subjective. The problem is that your "own" definition is not accepted by anyone but yourself. That's the problem. I could call my dog a "horse", but it wouldn't change the fact that it's still a dog, not a horse. The gaming industry has fully embraced the expression "DLC" to refer to whatever content gets added to the base game later on, be it an useless skin or a new campaign that adds hours upon hours of gameplay. The expression "expansion pack" is not used anymore, everything that could have benn called an "expansion pack" in the past is called DLC now.
CD Projekt RED said in a interview in early in 2013 they call expansion packs expansion packs even if you can purchase them digitally while DLC's will be DLC's and will be released for free. So I am not the only one who calls it that. There is also Rusty_Gunn a forum member who also said the same thing as I did.
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Niggles: Actually its not strictly true. I could be wrong bu the Xcom expansion (and i think Civ 5 Gods and Kings and BNW as well) and i forgot which other one were both mentioned as *expansion packs* in various media
There are various Kickstarter projects which will have *expansion packs* including Pillars of Eternity etc which are referred to as actual expansions and not DLC.
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Neobr10: True. But if you go to Steam or any other digital store these "expansions" are called DLCs and are under the "DLC" category. If you download and install these "expansions" you won't get a new tab, instead it will be shown on the "DLC" tab.

For example:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/235580/
http://store.steampowered.com/dlc/8930/
Like Niggles said XCOM: Enemy Within for XCOM: Enemy Unknown is called a expansion pack even on Steam. While on Steam it says Downloadable content. The video game developers put in the description expansion.

Here you go. This is what it says on the XCOM: Enemy Within store page.

About the Game

XCOM: Enemy Within is the expansion to the 2012 Game of the Year award-winning strategy game XCOM: Enemy Unknown. Enemy Within adds an incredible array of new abilities, upgrades and weapons to combat new enemy and alien threats. This expansion also introduces new maps and missions, new tactical and strategic gameplay, and new multiplayer content providing a fresh new gameplay experience.

Same thing goes for Civilization V Civilization V - Gods and Kings is also considered a expansion pack by the video game developers in the description.

Here you go again.

About the Game
Sid Meier's Civilization V: Gods and Kings is the first expansion pack for Civilization V - the critically acclaimed 2010 PC Game of the Year. This robust expansion covers the entire scope of time from founding your first Pantheon of the Gods and spreading religion across the world, to deploying your spies in enemy cities in order to steal information and technology.

As you move through the ages, you’ll interact with new types of city-states, engage in new city-state quests and global competitions, and master exciting new systems for land and naval combat. Civilization V: Gods and Kings will also include nine new civilizations, nine new wonders, three original scenarios, and dozens of new units, buildings, and techs that will offer even more ways for players to expand their empire and dominate the world.

As well as Civilization V: Brave New World.

it is a Steam thing. VALVe seems to not want to put a category for expansion packs I guess or laziness to define it as a expansion pack.
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Johnathanamz: CD Projekt RED said in a interview in early in 2013 they call expansion packs expansion packs even if you can purchase them digitally while DLC's will be DLC's and will be released for free. So I am not the only one who calls it that. There is also Rusty_Gunn a forum member who also said the same thing as I did.
So what? The whole industry adopts the word DLC to describe whatever add-on is released digitally (be it a skin or a whole new campaign). The fact that two people in a gaming forum and CDPR don't use the word "DLC" means nothing.

If you want to have your own definition, then fine. But don't try to turn your own definition into an universal truth.
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Johnathanamz: it is a Steam thing. VALVe seems to not want to put a category for expansion packs I guess or laziness to define it as a expansion pack.
It isn't a Steam thing. I could point out several examples of add-ons that are indeed "expansion packs" and are not labeled as such. Check the Borderlands, Fallout and Skyrim DLCs for example.

And still, even if they call it expansion pack, it's still a DLC. As said numerous times, DLC stands for Downloadable Content. It could either be a new campaign or just a few skins. Let me quote the definition again:

"Downloadable content (DLC) is additional content for a video game distributed through the Internet by the game's official publisher or other third party content producers. Downloadable content can be of several types, ranging from aesthetic outfit changes to a new, extensive storyline, similar to an expansion pack. As such, DLC may add new game modes, objects, levels, challenges or other features to a complete and already released game."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downloadable_content

Isn't that exactly what Enemy Within is?
Post edited April 23, 2014 by Neobr10
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Johnathanamz: CD Projekt RED said in a interview in early in 2013 they call expansion packs expansion packs even if you can purchase them digitally while DLC's will be DLC's and will be released for free. So I am not the only one who calls it that. There is also Rusty_Gunn a forum member who also said the same thing as I did.
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Neobr10: So what? The whole industry adopts the word DLC to describe whatever add-on is released digitally (be it a skin or a whole new campaign). The fact that two people in a gaming forum and CDPR don't use the word "DLC" means nothing.

If you want to have your own definition, then fine. But don't try to turn your own definition into an universal truth.
Because the new generation of video gamers like you who have not played video games since the 1970's, 1980's, 1990's and early 2000's like me just rather feel like calling digitally sold expansion packs Downloadable Content (DLC) and some of the video game industry adopted to call it that because money.

You are probably one of these new video gamers who started playing video games around middle of 2000 like in 2005 or 2006. I don't know anything about you so I think you are.

We old video gamers know what expansion packs are even if they are sold digitally and so do a lot ofr video game developers.

including Bethesda Game Studios game director Todd Howard who you know worked on developing The Elder Scrolls video games and Fallout 3 which The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is on steam and it's expansion packs Dawnguard and Dragonborn are called Downloadable Content on Steam but Todd Howard still calls them expansion packs. Hearthfire is the only DLC. End of story.
Technically everything you download & add to a game is a DLC. Problem here is that you brush everything under the same carpet. Horse Armor? Massive landscape with dozends new quests, NPCs, Items? All the same. A lot of ppl (mostly oldtimers) still assume something small when reading DLC & something big when reading expansion pack & something inbetween when hearing micro-expansion. And thats good, it helps to make a difference. To see if somethings worth to bother reading into it (some might see DLC,... the tiny ones, a waste of time & money but will fully support a full blown X-Pack) or not.

I bet even those who proclaim here that it should all be called same would immediately imagine something more than just a new hat when reading "expansion pack".
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anothername: Technically everything you download & add to a game is a DLC. Problem here is that you brush everything under the same carpet. Horse Armor? Massive landscape with dozends new quests, NPCs, Items? All the same. A lot of ppl (mostly oldtimers) still assume something small when reading DLC & something big when reading expansion pack & something inbetween when hearing micro-expansion. And thats good, it helps to make a difference. To see if somethings worth to bother reading into it (some might see DLC,... the tiny ones, a waste of time & money but will fully support a full blown X-Pack) or not.

I bet even those who proclaim here that it should all be called same would immediately imagine something more than just a new hat when reading "expansion pack".
CD Projekt RED and Todd Howard agree with me end of story.
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anothername: Technically everything you download & add to a game is a DLC. Problem here is that you brush everything under the same carpet. Horse Armor? Massive landscape with dozends new quests, NPCs, Items? All the same. A lot of ppl (mostly oldtimers) still assume something small when reading DLC & something big when reading expansion pack & something inbetween when hearing micro-expansion. And thats good, it helps to make a difference. To see if somethings worth to bother reading into it (some might see DLC,... the tiny ones, a waste of time & money but will fully support a full blown X-Pack) or not.

I bet even those who proclaim here that it should all be called same would immediately imagine something more than just a new hat when reading "expansion pack".
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Johnathanamz: CD Projekt RED and Todd Howard agree with me end of story.
If you have actually read my post you would see that I agree too ;)
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Johnathanamz: CD Projekt RED and Todd Howard agree with me end of story.
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anothername: If you have actually read my post you would see that I agree too ;)
I actually did read your post and realized you agreed with me after I posted my post.
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Johnathanamz: Because the new generation of video gamers like you who have not played video games since the 1970's, 1980's, 1990's and early 2000's like me just rather feel like calling digitally sold expansion packs Downloadable Content (DLC) and some of the video game industry adopted to call it that because money.
Ohhhhhhh, ran out of arguments already and had to resort to ad hominem? Hahahahaha, what a joke. That was quick. Take a deep breath and count to ten, i can feel your rage from here.

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Johnathanamz: You are probably one of these new video gamers who started playing video games around middle of 2000 like in 2005 or 2006. I don't know anything about you so I think you are.
Well, i'm not commenting on stupid ad hominem attempts. I'm sorry, but all of my arguments are based on factual evidences. I'm not falling for your pitiful attempts at disqualifying my arguments.

Too bad you can't have a rational discussion without resorting to personal attacks (which are not even true to begin with). Next time, please call me a troll, will you? That's the best you can come up with anyway.

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Johnathanamz: We old video gamers know what expansion packs are even if they are sold digitally and so do a lot ofr video game developers.
"We old video gamers". Meh, elitism crap. I've probably been gaming for longer than you and i think that elitism sucks.

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Johnathanamz: including Bethesda Game Studios game director Todd Howard who you know worked on developing The Elder Scrolls video games and Fallout 3 which The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is on steam and it's expansion packs Dawnguard and Dragonborn are called Downloadable Content on Steam but Todd Howard still calls them expansion packs. Hearthfire is the only DLC. End of story.
Then do be a favor and tell me why the store page for these "expansion packs" never mention the expression "expansion pack". Tell Bethesda's marketing team that they're missing something there. And you still didn't say why these "expansion packs" don't fall into the DLC definition i posted above.
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Johnathanamz: CD Projekt RED and Todd Howard agree with me end of story.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority

Fallacies, fallacies everywhere.
Post edited April 23, 2014 by Neobr10
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anothername: Snip
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Niggles: Snip
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anothername: Snip
I think that the issue here is that DLC is a catch-all umbrella term, which can be divided into smaller concepts.

So you have many types of DLC, including expansions, map packs, skins and so on. They all are a different categories of DLC's, but they all are DLC's as long as they are an addition to a base game and delivered digitally. So you can have a meaningful discussion of skins vs. expansions, but it is not right to say that an expansions is not a DLC.
Post edited April 23, 2014 by amok
*raises hand*
Why argue over semantics?
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Johnathanamz: Because the new generation of video gamers like you who have not played video games since the 1970's, 1980's, 1990's and early 2000's like me just rather feel like calling digitally sold expansion packs Downloadable Content (DLC) and some of the video game industry adopted to call it that because money.
Ohhhhhhh, ran out of arguments already and had to resort to ad hominem? Hahahahaha, what a joke. That was quick. Take a deep breath and count to ten, i can feel your rage from here.

You are probably one of these new video gamers who started playing video games around middle of 2000 like in 2005 or 2006. I don't know anything about you so I think you are.
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Neobr10: Well, i'm not commenting on stupid ad hominem attempts. I'm sorry, but all of my arguments are based on factual evidences. I'm not falling for your pitiful attempts at disqualifying my arguments.

Too bad you can't have a rational discussion without resorting to personal attacks (which are not even true to begin with).

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Johnathanamz: We old video gamers know what expansion packs are even if they are sold digitally and so do a lot ofr video game developers.
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Neobr10: "We old video gamers". Meh, elitism crap. I've probably been gaming for longer than you and i think that elitism sucks.

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Johnathanamz: including Bethesda Game Studios game director Todd Howard who you know worked on developing The Elder Scrolls video games and Fallout 3 which The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is on steam and it's expansion packs Dawnguard and Dragonborn are called Downloadable Content on Steam but Todd Howard still calls them expansion packs. Hearthfire is the only DLC. End of story.
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Neobr10: Then do be a favor and tell me why the store page for these "expansion packs" never mention the expression "expansion pack". Tell Bethesda's marketing team that they're missing something there. And you still didn't say why
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Johnathanamz: CD Projekt RED and Todd Howard agree with me end of story.
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Neobr10: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority

Fallacies, fallacies everywhere.
Oh man. Don't you thing you bark at the wrong tree? If the "modern industry" is to lazy or too dumb to make the distinction maybe you should complain to them instead to those individuals that started gaming when controllers where made of wood.
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Johnathanamz: Because the new generation of video gamers like you who have not played video games since the 1970's, 1980's, 1990's and early 2000's like me just rather feel like calling digitally sold expansion packs Downloadable Content (DLC) and some of the video game industry adopted to call it that because money.
Ohhhhhhh, ran out of arguments already and had to resort to ad hominem? Hahahahaha, what a joke. That was quick. Take a deep breath and count to ten, i can feel your rage from here.

You are probably one of these new video gamers who started playing video games around middle of 2000 like in 2005 or 2006. I don't know anything about you so I think you are.
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Neobr10: Well, i'm not commenting on stupid ad hominem attempts. I'm sorry, but all of my arguments are based on factual evidences. I'm not falling for your pitiful attempts at disqualifying my arguments.

Too bad you can't have a rational discussion without resorting to personal attacks (which are not even true to begin with).

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Johnathanamz: We old video gamers know what expansion packs are even if they are sold digitally and so do a lot ofr video game developers.
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Neobr10: "We old video gamers". Meh, elitism crap. I've probably been gaming for longer than you and i think that elitism sucks.

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Johnathanamz: including Bethesda Game Studios game director Todd Howard who you know worked on developing The Elder Scrolls video games and Fallout 3 which The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is on steam and it's expansion packs Dawnguard and Dragonborn are called Downloadable Content on Steam but Todd Howard still calls them expansion packs. Hearthfire is the only DLC. End of story.
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Neobr10: Then do be a favor and tell me why the store page for these "expansion packs" never mention the expression "expansion pack". Tell Bethesda's marketing team that they're missing something there. And you still didn't say why
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Johnathanamz: CD Projekt RED and Todd Howard agree with me end of story.
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Neobr10: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority

Fallacies, fallacies everywhere.
I guess you didn't read my whole entire post.

Personal attacks? I didn't attack you at all.

Also Bethesda Softworks marketing department is just that a marketing department. The marketing department can call a product whatever they want. The marketing department could of called the expansion packs open world hiking simulator extension for The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim instead of Downloadable content if they wanted to.
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Neobr10: Well, i'm not commenting on stupid ad hominem attempts. I'm sorry, but all of my arguments are based on factual evidences. I'm not falling for your pitiful attempts at disqualifying my arguments.

Too bad you can't have a rational discussion without resorting to personal attacks (which are not even true to begin with).

"We old video gamers". Meh, elitism crap. I've probably been gaming for longer than you and i think that elitism sucks.

Then do be a favor and tell me why the store page for these "expansion packs" never mention the expression "expansion pack". Tell Bethesda's marketing team that they're missing something there. And you still didn't say why

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority

Fallacies, fallacies everywhere.
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anothername: Oh man. Don't you thing you bark at the wrong tree? If the "modern industry" is to lazy or too dumb to make the distinction maybe you should complain to them instead to those individuals that started gaming when controllers where made of wood.
I am confused is this post to me or Neobr10?
Post edited April 23, 2014 by Johnathanamz
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anothername: Oh man. Don't you thing you bark at the wrong tree? If the "modern industry" is to lazy or too dumb to make the distinction maybe you should complain to them instead to those individuals that started gaming when controllers where made of wood.
Don't start this argument, you may find that there are people out there who made the prototypes of those wooden controllers out of rocks who may not agree with you...
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Johnathanamz: .
.
I am confused is this post to me or Neobr10?
Neobr10
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anothername: Oh man. Don't you thing you bark at the wrong tree? If the "modern industry" is to lazy or too dumb to make the distinction maybe you should complain to them instead to those individuals that started gaming when controllers where made of wood.
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amok: Don't start this argument, you may find that there are people out there who made the prototypes of those wooden controllers out of rocks who may not agree with you...
Werent they all eaten by T-Rexes? :P
Post edited April 23, 2014 by anothername