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I sometimes wonder if im not the only one that has this problem, there are lots of games that i want to play and finish but are takes back by things about the game that are too chunky hard to understand, I would like to know if someone here in this community has the same problem and would want to tell it,
mine are.
eye of the beholder. it is diffecult to map out the dungeons.
ultima same problem.
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hercufles: eye of the beholder. it is diffecult to map out the dungeons.
ultima same problem.
Why is it difficult?
Pretty sure most old games tend to be hard.
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hercufles: eye of the beholder. it is diffecult to map out the dungeons.
ultima same problem.
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omega64: Why is it difficult?
im really terrible at drawing maps expecialy with the moongates
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hercufles: im really terrible at drawing maps expecialy with the moongates
Have you tried this program?
http://www.davidwaltersdevelopment.com/tools/gridcart/?aim=dl

Pretty sure that would work better than drawing one on paper.
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hercufles: eye of the beholder. it is diffecult to map out the dungeons.
ultima same problem.
Well you basically nailed it there. CRPGs where I either have to draw a map myself, or write down things (what quests there are, which of them I've completed etc.) are a big no-no to me nowadays. A CRPG must have an automap and a good quest log system.

Then again, I recall playing EOB2 and Lands of Lore through a long time ago without drawing maps, so maybe their maps were so easy to navigate even without a map... or possibly I sometimes used some premade maps by others? Not sure.

For Ultima games... which in particular? Do you mean the first-person view dungeons in the earliest Ultima games? I don't think that was an issue at least in Ultima 7 (and later), and Ultima Underworld games have an automap, luckily.
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hercufles: eye of the beholder. it is diffecult to map out the dungeons.
ultima same problem.
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timppu: Well you basically nailed it there. CRPGs where I either have to draw a map myself, or write down things (what quests there are, which of them I've completed etc.) are a big no-no to me nowadays. A CRPG must have an automap and a good quest log system.

Then again, I recall playing EOB2 and Lands of Lore through a long time ago without drawing maps, so maybe their maps were so easy to navigate even without a map... or possibly I sometimes used some premade maps by others? Not sure.

For Ultima games... which in particular? Do you mean the first-person view dungeons in the earliest Ultima games? I don't think that was an issue at least in Ultima 7 (and later), and Ultima Underworld games have an automap, luckily.
if there is a franchise with rpg's i always wanted to start with the first one.
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zeogold: Pretty sure most old games tend to be hard.
oh yes

recently i got tekken 1 on the ps1 and while the graphics are fugly
the AI is so god damn cheap
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zeogold: Pretty sure most old games tend to be hard.
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snowkatt: oh yes

recently i got tekken 1 on the ps1 and while the graphics are fugly
the AI is so god damn cheap
Well, games for the arcade are sort of an exception, since those suckers are DESIGNED to be hard in order to eat up peoples' quarters.
An interesting question in terms of what people were used to back then vs what they're used to now, not just a generic idea that "Games were more challenging back then!".

For example, I'm pretty sure nobody today who hadn't played KQ3 when it came out could play through the game today without a walkthrough
Then there's stuff like evolution in gameplay mechanics making older games harder to get into. For example, "tank control" games which were well received back then being difficult to play (I loved Urban Chaos when it first came out, but a lot of complaints in the gog reviews seem to target the tank controls).
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snowkatt: oh yes

recently i got tekken 1 on the ps1 and while the graphics are fugly
the AI is so god damn cheap
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zeogold: Well, games for the arcade are sort of an exception, since those suckers are DESIGNED to be hard in order to eat up peoples' quarters.
but back in 1995 i would have had to cough up a lot of quarters to buy this game
so they could have eased off on the ridicilously cheap AI

if i by the port there is no need for it to be so punishingly difficult
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babark: For example, I'm pretty sure nobody today who hadn't played KQ3 when it came out could play through the game today without a walkthrough
I'm pretty sure nobody played KQ3 when it came out played it without a walkthrough or calling Sierra's tipline. At least, not getting a perfect score.
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snowkatt: if i by the port there is no need for it to be so punishingly difficult
It's a port, not a remaster.
Post edited July 15, 2016 by zeogold
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babark: An interesting question in terms of what people were used to back then vs what they're used to now, not just a generic idea that "Games were more challenging back then!".

For example, I'm pretty sure nobody today who hadn't played KQ3 when it came out could play through the game today without a walkthrough
Then there's stuff like evolution in gameplay mechanics making older games harder to get into. For example, "tank control" games which were well received back then being difficult to play (I loved Urban Chaos when it first came out, but a lot of complaints in the gog reviews seem to target the tank controls).
sierra games were made diffecult on purpose, sierra noticed that leisure suit larry 1 were pirated so much they sold more strategy guides then games, so if you couldnt get trough a game you online had 2 choices buy a strategy guide or calles sierra hotline.
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babark: For example, I'm pretty sure nobody today who hadn't played KQ3 when it came out could play through the game today without a walkthrough
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zeogold: I'm pretty sure nobody played KQ3 when it came out played it without a walkthrough or calling Sierra's tipline. At least, not getting a perfect score.
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snowkatt: if i by the port there is no need for it to be so punishingly difficult
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zeogold: It's a port, not a remaster.
i dont see what difference that makes
i paid for a homeport so there is no need for the game to want to murder me
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hercufles: I sometimes wonder if im not the only one that has this problem, there are lots of games that i want to play and finish but are takes back by things about the game that are too chunky hard to understand, I would like to know if someone here in this community has the same problem and would want to tell it,
mine are.
eye of the beholder. it is diffecult to map out the dungeons.
ultima same problem.
Can't really say I had problems with mapping EoB; It's pretty straightforward, as long as you notice the teleporters and spinners. That being said, I did use the All-Seeing Eye last playthrough, simply for ease of use.

I do have issues with some of the older RPG leveling systems, such as in the original Bard's Tale, where you have to visit the Review Board to level up even if you have enough XP...