Posted December 12, 2016
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Magmarock
New User
Registered: Jul 2011
From Australia
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Trilarion
New User
Registered: Jul 2010
From Germany
Posted December 12, 2016
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Or a dedicated thread?
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Magmarock
New User
Registered: Jul 2011
From Australia
Posted December 12, 2016
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Or a dedicated thread?
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AB2012
Registered: Sep 2014
From United Kingdom
Posted December 12, 2016
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1. It makes more sense on Steam since people generally get far more annoyed at modern games being unnecessarily capped at 30fps due to bad console port than +25 year old MS-DOS game which simply didn't have the horsepower at time of creation (made way back when 2D Video Cards, 3D accelerators, MPEG2 hardware decoders, sound cards and I/O controllers all came on separate cards...)
2. Stuff like 40fps frame-rate cap in Adventure Game Studio engine don't really count because it's there due to the sprite animation rate being lower than the render / refresh rate anyway and it has long been accepted as part of the genre's charm, art style and feel. Same reason no-one complains of 320x240 / 640x480 "blocky" pixel art in modern WadjetEye games. The only way of getting "real" 60fps in a lot of sprite based games is to redo all the art assets (which a lot of people don't want even if the devs could be bothered).
"Stacking" is another game that's 30fps locked due to the way it's animated at a certain rate (according to the devs). Baldur's Gate (at least the originals) animations were 30fps. Age of Empires and Rise of Nations (non HD) "run" at 60-120fps but it's obvious the unit animation is far lower. Diablo 2 was 24/25fps. Anything old and isometric with "sprites" in is often sub 60fps but doesn't necessarily lose anything vs FPS titles.
3. Some games like The Neverhood / Armikrog / Neighbors From Hell, etc, run at 20-30fps because that's how the "claymation" (stop-motion clay modelling) animation works. 60fps would just be repeating the same 20-30fps source animation 2-3x over per second with no increase in fluidity. Again, people don't want this particular art style changed for the same reason TV shows like Wallace & Gromit would lose half their charm if they were treated as rendered Pixar titles.
4. Some FPS games actually improve over time. Eg, Doom Engine games (Doom 1&2, Heretic, Hexen, etc) played with the original engine via DOSBox were capped at 35fps (and is painful to play like that today anyway due to lack of mouse-look). However, drop those WAD files into a modern OpenGL source-port engine (eg, GZDoom / Doomsday Engine) and you'll get up to +144Hz if you wanted.
I can understand why you asked, but for older games the situation is a little different than Steam's endless "consolitis" and so many exceptions would have to be made that it wouldn't really mean the same "to be avoided" thing as "curators" lists on Steam.
Post edited December 12, 2016 by AB2012
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vidsgame
Lost in a Cloud
Registered: Nov 2014
From United States
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my name is catte
i touch your foods
Registered: Mar 2010
From United Kingdom
Posted December 13, 2016
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2) Films are not interactive
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tammerwhisk
Commageddon
Registered: Dec 2010
From United States
Posted December 13, 2016
It's probably fixed here, but the game had a massive massive massive quirk with CPU speeds impacting game speed (if memory serves). Plus the game performs like trash, and a myriad of bugs.
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Magmarock
New User
Registered: Jul 2011
From Australia
Posted December 13, 2016
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1. It makes more sense on Steam since people generally get far more annoyed at modern games being unnecessarily capped at 30fps due to bad console port than +25 year old MS-DOS game which simply didn't have the horsepower at time of creation (made way back when 2D Video Cards, 3D accelerators, MPEG2 hardware decoders, sound cards and I/O controllers all came on separate cards...)
2. Stuff like 40fps frame-rate cap in Adventure Game Studio engine don't really count because it's there due to the sprite animation rate being lower than the render / refresh rate anyway and it has long been accepted as part of the genre's charm, art style and feel. Same reason no-one complains of 320x240 / 640x480 "blocky" pixel art in modern WadjetEye games. The only way of getting "real" 60fps in a lot of sprite based games is to redo all the art assets (which a lot of people don't want even if the devs could be bothered).
"Stacking" is another game that's 30fps locked due to the way it's animated at a certain rate (according to the devs). Baldur's Gate (at least the originals) animations were 30fps. Age of Empires and Rise of Nations (non HD) "run" at 60-120fps but it's obvious the unit animation is far lower. Diablo 2 was 24/25fps. Anything old and isometric with "sprites" in is often sub 60fps but doesn't necessarily lose anything vs FPS titles.
3. Some games like The Neverhood / Armikrog / Neighbors From Hell, etc, run at 20-30fps because that's how the "claymation" (stop-motion clay modelling) animation works. 60fps would just be repeating the same 20-30fps source animation 2-3x over per second with no increase in fluidity. Again, people don't want this particular art style changed for the same reason TV shows like Wallace & Gromit would lose half their charm if they were treated as rendered Pixar titles.
4. Some FPS games actually improve over time. Eg, Doom Engine games (Doom 1&2, Heretic, Hexen, etc) played with the original engine via DOSBox were capped at 35fps (and is painful to play like that today anyway due to lack of mouse-look). However, drop those WAD files into a modern OpenGL source-port engine (eg, GZDoom / Doomsday Engine) and you'll get up to +144Hz if you wanted.
I can understand why you asked, but for older games the situation is a little different than Steam's endless "consolitis" and so many exceptions would have to be made that it wouldn't really mean the same "to be avoided" thing as "curators" lists on Steam.
for points 2 and 3 for Adventure games I'll admit that framerate probably not a big deal,but I wish to point out that even if the animation is locked at a certain frame rate a higher rendering frame rate will make the game more responsive. It's it's menus and alike. So they should still be rendered at a higher frame rate even if the sprites are fixed.
For your final point, I think simply having a list of known FPS issues might be better. Not really trying to shame anyone or anything, but for example Duke Nukem is locked at 85fps and there's nothing that can be done about that. So if you have a 60hz display you're going to get screen tearing. That would be a listed issue as well.
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Paradoks
Mt 10,33
Registered: Dec 2009
From Poland
Posted December 13, 2016
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And just because something is considered sufficient doesn't mean it shouldn't be better. In many cases monochrome image is sufficient, yet I don't remember many black and white movies recently.
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Magmarock
New User
Registered: Jul 2011
From Australia
Posted December 13, 2016
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2) Films are not interactive
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tammerwhisk
Commageddon
Registered: Dec 2010
From United States
Posted December 13, 2016
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omega64
Something good
Registered: Apr 2012
From Netherlands
Posted December 13, 2016
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tammerwhisk
Commageddon
Registered: Dec 2010
From United States
Posted December 13, 2016
Sometimes thats less the framerate and more that a lot of point n clicks have incredibly awful engines.
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omega64
Something good
Registered: Apr 2012
From Netherlands
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YaTEdiGo
Vegan Gamer
Registered: Apr 2009
From Taiwan
Posted December 13, 2016
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I find it hard to believe that a pro quake player would have such a dismissive view on framerate and technical capacity absolutely matters. Games are technical things thus these thing do matter.
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A) If someone made MARIO64 run at 60FPS wasn´t my friend, demonstrated by the people in that thread and accepted it by him. MARIO64 is hardcoded at 30FPS or less, but beyond who achieved that or not, we are talking about someone that couldnt even play in hist words at 59FPS, and was talking about how GREAT was playing MARIO64 at 60FPS, when in fact, as people demonstrated and he accepted it, he was playing at normal MARIO framerate. I have proof in posts of both things.
So no, you didnt or you didnt want to get the point.
B) What the hell are you saying about people dying and getting diseases? LOL
C) There is nothing special in want to run like a Zealot all games in 60FPS, and yes, I get mature. (Replying to your "difficult to believe a Quake player"
Post edited December 13, 2016 by YaTEdiGo