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Day and a half. Finally got an e-mail saying that I will be refunded within 7 days...to my Steam Wallet...

While I suppose I should be happy I'm getting a refund at all, it will probably be too late to capitalize on the sale. Meh.
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Ophelium: Day and a half. Finally got an e-mail saying that I will be refunded within 7 days...to my Steam Wallet...

While I suppose I should be happy I'm getting a refund at all, it will probably be too late to capitalize on the sale. Meh.
What'd you refund? I myself am trying to refund a massively regretted purchase that I never attempted previously just because their customer service in the past has fucking sucked.
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tammerwhisk: What'd you refund? I myself am trying to refund a massively regretted purchase that I never attempted previously just because their customer service in the past has fucking sucked.
Fallout 3 GOTY Edition. They didn't take their time removing the game from my account, though.
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monkeydelarge: Is it possible for you to provide "updates" or "free DLC" for your two games that are less than 2 hours to make them both longer than 2 hours? That is what I'd do in order to protect myself. Just throw in some extra content so the games don't become free to play for people without any morals. Make it so if someone rushed through both games, each game would take him or her, 2 hours and 1 minute to finish, basically. For example, add cut scenes that can not be skipped to extend each game to over 2 hours. Unfortunately this means, you are going to have to work for free just to prevent yourself from becoming a victim of douchebags. But I can think of no easier solution. On the bright side, the extra content might make your games look more appealing and you will have more sales. :) So maybe in the end, you won't have to work for free in order to protect yourself.
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tammerwhisk: Arbitrarily inflating game time (especially if it degrades the experience) is going to harm more than it helps. The runs the risk of alienating actual customers.

Using the same halfassed logic as DRM does is not the way forward. You don't focus on the shitbags, you focus on the legitimate customers.
From a dev point of view, if you start artificially lenghtening the gameplay length of your game, you'll get in the same pitfalls of game design than the F2P on mobile (and it's growing on PC). This is where you start putting unlockables and leveling system....

To take an example on how modern game mechanics detracts from the core experience, I'll take the shmup genre and in particularly the case of Humans Must Answer and Soldner-X 2:
For a long time, the core experiences of shmups was : first you try to go straight to the game ending then you put yourself the challenges you want to accomplish like finishing the game with only one credit, finishing in hardcore mode, getting the best scores, etc...
In the two cases aforementioned, the challenges are put before the core goal of finishing the game. In both games you have to collect some secret items through the stages to unlock the later levels. So as an old-school gamer, I focus on blasting everything as usual and the the game tells me I can't go further because of some game mechanic which has nothing to do with shmups :( That's sad as apart from that I like these two games.....

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On another story, my deliberate abusive refund request was accepted this morning and I can tell you it's a bit infuriating... More on this later but it really seems like the refund department is run by monkeys with no common sense :(
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catpower1980: On another story, my deliberate abusive refund request was accepted this morning and I can tell you it's a bit infuriating... More on this later but it really seems like the refund department is run by monkeys with no common sense :(
I'm pretty sure abusive would mean repeated, there's no way to prove your refund request is abusive as long as you fill the base criteria.

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jefequeso: I'd really like to see players become more accepting of (fairly priced) short experiences, because I think they have just as much value as enormous RPG epics. And I think there's an audience for them. Especially the average gamer getting older and having jobs/families.
Of course there is audience for such titles. It's the audience which purchases your titles in spite of all reviews claiming it to be extremely short, and it tends to be the adult audience of videogame enthusiasts which won't start asking for refunds for your titles. You need to realize that you're not catering to Call of Duty lolkids - your target demographic is a different group entirely.
Post edited June 06, 2015 by Fenixp
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catpower1980: From a dev point of view, if you start artificially lenghtening the gameplay length of your game, you'll get in the same pitfalls of game design than the F2P on mobile (and it's growing on PC). This is where you start putting unlockables and leveling system....

To take an example on how modern game mechanics detracts from the core experience, I'll take the shmup genre and in particularly the case of Humans Must Answer and Soldner-X 2:
For a long time, the core experiences of shmups was : first you try to go straight to the game ending then you put yourself the challenges you want to accomplish like finishing the game with only one credit, finishing in hardcore mode, getting the best scores, etc...
In the two cases aforementioned, the challenges are put before the core goal of finishing the game. In both games you have to collect some secret items through the stages to unlock the later levels. So as an old-school gamer, I focus on blasting everything as usual and the the game tells me I can't go further because of some game mechanic which has nothing to do with shmups :( That's sad as apart from that I like these two games.....

___________________________________________________________________________________________

On another story, my deliberate abusive refund request was accepted this morning and I can tell you it's a bit infuriating... More on this later but it really seems like the refund department is run by monkeys with no common sense :(
Steam gives refund without question = people call them monkeys.

Gotta love this logic.

You can never please some people.
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Fenixp: I'm pretty sure abusive would mean repeated, there's no way to prove your refund request is abusive as long as you fill the base criteria.
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zeroxxx: Steam gives refund without question = people call them monkeys.
Gotta love this logic.
You can never please some people.
You two : The point of my refund was to test a particular loophole in the refunds "contract" that no other business would have allowed when it's blatantly abusive (not in a repeatable fashion). Gotta edit those screenshots now....
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catpower1980: You two : The point of my refund was to test a particular loophole in the refunds "contract" that no other business would have allowed when it's blatantly abusive (not in a repeatable fashion). Gotta edit those screenshots now....
What were you trying to do, exactly? Finishing a game and then asking for a refund?
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catpower1980: You two : The point of my refund was to test a particular loophole in the refunds "contract" that no other business would have allowed when it's blatantly abusive (not in a repeatable fashion). Gotta edit those screenshots now....
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Fenixp: What were you trying to do, exactly? Finishing a game and then asking for a refund?
No, simply to see how DLC which are inherently DRM-free such as soundtracks could be easily "pirated" and then refunded without questions "as the DLC has not been consumed, modified or transferred" (quoted straight from steam FAQ). I asked the permission of Jefequeso before doing this experiment.

As such, the system is broken for "drm-free content", I didn't experiment with complete games but if someone is up to it:
http://steam.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games
I don't see any reason why this wouldn't work with those games.

Screenshots attached, as I like the "I purchased this by accident" option (maybe I was drunk when I went trough all those purchasing clicks and paypal ^o^) with no further excuses.

Damn, now I'm buying "The Music Machine" out of guilt :o)

PS: on the support page, it indicates 3 June as the purchase date as I think it's due to their American time but it was already 4 June in Europe ;)
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Fenixp: What were you trying to do, exactly? Finishing a game and then asking for a refund?
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catpower1980: No, simply to see how DLC which are inherently DRM-free such as soundtracks could be easily "pirated" and then refunded without questions "as the DLC has not been consumed, modified or transferred" (quoted straight from steam FAQ). I asked the permission of Jefequeso before doing this experiment.

As such, the system is broken for "drm-free content", I didn't experiment with complete games but if someone is up to it:
http://steam.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games
I don't see any reason why this wouldn't work with those games.

Screenshots attached, as I like the "I purchased this by accident" option (maybe I was drunk when I went trough all those purchasing clicks and paypal ^o^) with no further excuses.

Damn, now I'm buying "The Music Machine" out of guilt :o)

PS: on the support page, it indicates 3 June as the purchase date as I think it's due to their American time but it was already 4 June in Europe ;)
I fail to see how the system is utterly broken or how that was necessarily an abusive refund.
Cant get a refund for my account and purchases xD Not interested.
make em last 2 hours and 1 minute, problem solved
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tammerwhisk: I fail to see how the system is utterly broken or how that was necessarily an abusive refund.
The refund system is mainly aimed at games primarly.
The logic would be : Player X plays the game and likes the soundtrack so he buys it, it's purely rational (that's why the "by accident" put a smirk on my face).

As I pointed out, the system is broken as I quoted in the FAQ: "as the DLC has not been consumed, modified or transferred"
http://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds/
==>> When the soundtrack is downloaded, the mp3 files are on your computer, ready for listening and to copy on your mp3 player as such I can bet any lawyer in the world can prove that the product has been "consumed" at this point as Steam has no way to track if you listened to the files or copied them.

And as I said, for drm-free games,nothing seems to stop you from just copying the files without playing the game and get refunded. That's why GOG has some refund policy in this matter.
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catpower1980: ...
That's not a loophole, that's putting consumer first. I have mentioned it somewhere in this thread earlier - Czech legislation allows you to return goods purchased remotely (online, via phone) to be returned within 14 days back to purchaser. You can literally buy a game fully priced, finish it, and then return it for a full refund. You can purchase any piece of electronic and use it for 14 days before having to return it, like more expensive GPS when you go abroad and such. There's an incredible amount of ways in which this law can be abused and just about everybody knows about it - and you know what? The abuse is so small that it's not an issue.
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reaver894: make em last 2 hours and 1 minute, problem solved
New version of modernized shareware: only unlocks the second half of the game after 2 hours of playtime. Good way to piss off your customers :o)