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teceem: Sounds like you really did understand what it was about! :-P
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toxicTom: No offence meant if you like these movies. It just seems they and I are incompatible. I have to admit though I've rarely felt that disconnected from what I watch.
Scroll a bit up and read where I wrote:
I'm not saying I like that crap
;-)
I just don't think the Transformers movies are that much worse than a lot of high profile stuff holywood is churning out these days (and I try to avoid).
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teceem: Cynicism and sarcasm doesn't work well on a (this) forum. The story in the Transformers movies is ridiculously simple - you just have to stay awake long enough to see the end of it. ;-)
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toxicTom: LOL, I actually mean it. I did try to watch Transformers 1+2. And it made no sense to me. It felt like zapping between several disjoint soap operas and a movie trailer show. I have to admit I was a bit drunk at the time - but not really "out". And in between I sometimes gave up and did something else (which probably didn't help either).

I mean the visual effects and all were great. It just seemed I couldn't see the dots connecting all that action.
My god, the Transformers movies. It's a pretty wild ride with these, from being just sort of "meh" on the first one I've come to really despise them by the third one, and the foruth one was the most miserable, hateful cinema experience of my life. Transformers 2-4 would probably all make it to my top 5 worst movies ever.

I don't even agree about the visuals being great. Technically maybe, but the transfomers themselves are al these over-complicated mess of grey gears and cogs, which makes it almost impossible to distinguish them, especially when the action really kicks in. It's all just grey CG mess punching itself for hours.
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teceem: I just don't think the Transformers movies are that much worse than a lot of high profile stuff holywood is churning out these days (and I try to avoid).
I haven't watched a lot of those either. It starts with the problem that at least for originally English stuff I want to have the original VO, because a lot is "lost in translation" and also I'm quite fed up with the two dozen German voice actors appearing in ever major movie and TV show...

And then there's just the fact that I seem to enjoy TV serials more than movies.
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Stevedog13: Same here. It sounds interesting but it could also just be a gimmick to make a bland story somewhat intriguing.
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tinyE: It's not, trust me, but it does take patience and concentration to watch, but it's by no means impossible to follow. The movie is shown in segments that go backwards in time and you just need to remind yourself every now and then "This is what just happened."

The story and the ending are actually quite brilliant, IMHO, though if you follow REALLY CLOSELY you can figure it out early on.
I really like Memento, I love pretty much everything Nolan made except for Dunkirk, but his masterpiece is The Prestige. One of the best movies I've ever seen. Memento is just clever, Prestige is genius.
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Breja: I don't even agree about the visuals being great. Technically maybe, but the transfomers themselves are al these over-complicated mess of grey gears and cogs, which makes it almost impossible to distinguish them, especially when the action really kicks in. It's all just grey CG mess punching itself for hours.
Hey I was trying hard to follow the story, I didn't have time to look that closely at the details...
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teceem: I just don't think the Transformers movies are that much worse than a lot of high profile stuff holywood is churning out these days (and I try to avoid).
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toxicTom: I haven't watched a lot of those either. It starts with the problem that at least for originally English stuff I want to have the original VO, because a lot is "lost in translation" and also I'm quite fed up with the two dozen German voice actors appearing in ever major movie and TV show...

And then there's just the fact that I seem to enjoy TV serials more than movies.
I agree there... a few of my favorite TV shows are from the 80s and 90s, but there have never been so many great tv shows as there are now.
And I just can't imagine living in a country where they translate everything. Luckily these days you can easily 'download' or buy the original versions outside Germany. :-)
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toxicTom: That's a bit unfair. If you make a piece of art (like a movie) based on another piece of art (like a book), it's actually "part of the art" to cater to both people who do know the original, and those who don't. Because you interpret something (which is an art on it's own sometimes, and especially in this case). And at the same time you create something new.

So preconceptions are part of the game already. And not only with one art form turned into another (like book -> movie), but actually in any case. Most people always expect something, seeing a movie or play, going to an exhibition - you name it. Meeting or break with those expectations is part of the game - of art.

Every artist is "standing on the shoulders of giants". Some are more obvious about it (like Tarantino), some aren't. But the heritage-luggage is always there. You simply can't ignore it.
Ignore isn't the right word, but you can certainly consider it less important than whether the film itself was enjoyable.
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teceem: I agree there... a few of my favorite TV shows are from the 80s and 90s, but there have never been so many great tv shows as there are now.
There's The Expanse, Ash vs Evil Dead that just got cancelled... and that's about it in the "great tv shows" department. Compared to the 80s and 90s tv sucks now like a superhero bitten by a radioactive vacuum cleaner.
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teceem: I agree there... a few of my favorite TV shows are from the 80s and 90s, but there have never been so many great tv shows as there are now.
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Breja: There's The Expanse, Ash vs Evil Dead that just got cancelled... and that's about it in the "great tv shows" department. Compared to the 80s and 90s tv sucks now like a superhero bitten by a radioactive vacuum cleaner.
How about:
- Mr Robot (I loved the first season / just started season 2)
- The Man In The High Castle
- Altered Carbon
- American Gods
- Fargo
- Legion
- Sherlock
- Taboo
- The Magicians
- Westworld
- Etc... (I'm not going to list them all)
Post edited May 05, 2018 by teceem
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Stevedog13: But the whole point of having a poster or a trailer is to offer the audience something to form an opinion on and ultimately judge. We don't just blindly walk into a theater, sit down and wait for some random movie to start playing. We go into a film with certain amounts of prejudice. This gets further complicated when a film is based on a book, because the film maker needs to either deliver on the preconceived notions of the books' fanbase or create something that expands on and overrides those expectations.
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StingingVelvet: So you're actively arguing that marketing and preconceptions should matter more than the art itself? Seems like a strange hill to die on to me, but I know you're far from alone.
I'm not saying that it should matter more, just that (for better or worse) the reality is that it does matter.
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teceem: - The Man In The High Castle
I just couldn't get through the book, which is why I haven't picked up the show so far. I actually read quite a few of Dick's books and liked them, but I just couldn't make it through this one.

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teceem: - American Gods
Here it's the reverse - I love the book so much the show would have to be exactly 100% like I imagined it for me to like it, and I could see from the trailers and the cast that it's not. I know, I know, one show I don't watch because I didn't like the book, the other because I loved it. I know I'm not being consistent.

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teceem: - Fargo
I hate the movie so much, I'd rather staple my dick to a burning log than watch any more of it.

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teceem: - Sherlock
Started of well (would say great but good) but from season 3 on it only got worse and worse. Season 4 is outright horrible, and the finale is an amazing piece of crap. Maybe the worst episode of tv I've ever seen.

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teceem: - Taboo
It's ok-ish. Definately not great. Some of the plots go nowhere. Hardy's character is too one-note to be really interesting.

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teceem: - Westworld
I almost died of boredom watching the first episode. Also guessed one of the big twists immediately. I think the original movie and it's weird sequel are quite enough Westworld for me.
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tinyE: It's not, trust me, but it does take patience and concentration to watch, but it's by no means impossible to follow. The movie is shown in segments that go backwards in time and you just need to remind yourself every now and then "This is what just happened."

The story and the ending are actually quite brilliant, IMHO, though if you follow REALLY CLOSELY you can figure it out early on.
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Breja: I really like Memento, I love pretty much everything Nolan made except for Dunkirk, but his masterpiece is The Prestige. One of the best movies I've ever seen. Memento is just clever, Prestige is genius.
Maybe it's just a marketing thing. I mean, why did you decide to watch The Prestige in the first place. Did you read the book first? Were you drawn in by the previews? Or did you simply watch because; Nolan?

For me, looking at these two films without knowing much about them or Nolan's work it seems odd that The Prestige is better reviewed, not just by you as I've heard that many times. Memento is a movie about a guy who loses his memory each night and he's looking for the man that killed his wife, the film shows the day by day passage backwards so the audience experiences the same lack of understanding as the main protagonist. It sounds pretty cool. On the other hand, all I know about The Prestige is that it's about two 19th century magicians competing for who can perform the best magic trick. It's labeled as a "Sci-Fi Thriller" but the plot sounds about as exciting as The Trip to Bountiful.
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Stevedog13: Maybe it's just a marketing thing. I mean, why did you decide to watch The Prestige in the first place. Did you read the book first? Were you drawn in by the previews? Or did you simply watch because; Nolan?
Nolan and the cast - Jackman, Bale, Caine and David Bowie (who is absolutely superb here as Tesla). I have not read the book. I guess I should, I really can't even imagine what this might be like as a book.

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Stevedog13: For me, looking at these two films without knowing much about them or Nolan's work it seems odd that The Prestige is better reviewed, not just by you as I've heard that many times. Memento is a movie about a guy who loses his memory each night and he's looking for the man that killed his wife, the film shows the day by day passage backwards so the audience experiences the same lack of understanding as the main protagonist. It sounds pretty cool. On the other hand, all I know about The Prestige is that it's about two 19th century magicians competing for who can perform the best magic trick. It's labeled as a "Sci-Fi Thriller" but the plot sounds about as exciting as The Trip to Bountiful.
It's a movie about the rivalry, about what it does to the people in question and their lives, and that alone written well and with a good cast could be very good (and the cast does a tremendous job). The theme of talented and potentially great men ruined by rivalry, cleverly punctuated by Tesla's presence. But that being said, what makes it so superb is not the story itself, it's all about how it's told, and how the subject matter and the storytelling sort of mirror each other. I guess on the face of it you could describe Memento the same way, but Memento (while still very good) feels a bit more gimmicky. I don't know how to describe it without giving too much away. It's a movie about magic tricks that is itself a trick. It's all a trick within a trick within a trick. It's very stylish, and very clever in an elegant way. It's a trick so elegant that you admire it even more once it's been revealed to you.
Post edited May 05, 2018 by Breja
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Breja: I really like Memento, I love pretty much everything Nolan made except for Dunkirk, but his masterpiece is The Prestige. One of the best movies I've ever seen. Memento is just clever, Prestige is genius.
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Stevedog13:
If you do ever catch Memento, let me know what you thought. I'd be really curious to know.
Post edited May 05, 2018 by tinyE
None, I find horror movies quite laughable!
Post edited May 05, 2018 by fr33kSh0w2012