The Bard and Gadgeteer gain a level a battle or two after the casters catch up. I just got my Bard and Gadgeteer to level 36.
Locks and Traps training is hopeless, I reverted back to an old save. It seems that Sir-Tech nerfed L&T skill training, just like they nerfed Pickpocketing.
Oh well. It's time to actually play the game, with my turbo-charged MDP. Nothing should be a threat at this point, as I should be equal level to the toughest monsters in the Mountain Wilderness.

Congratz, well done! Do you know approximately how many in-game hours it took you to complete this grind? Or how many battles fought?

Thanks a bunch. I started October 16, 2021. It's now June 2023. That's a lot of grinding, this is because MDPs have a hard time even getting to Arnika the first time, and I have never actually played an MDP like this, so this is new to me. I'm fully loaded up with Magic Nectar for the casters for the rest of the game (Mana Stones later, as they have the added benefit of training Artifacts).
I would guess that I fought many thousands of battles to get to this point. Arnika is loaded with Savant machines that give good experience (Berserkers, Slashers, Minion, Destroyers). Also, no magic-using enemies spawn, there are four vendors, and plenty of places to hide and rest.

All that hard work actually means something. I tore through the early-midgame, buying Crock out of all his good items, before killing him before he can kidnap someone. I completely cleared out Trynton and the Rattkin Tree, having effortlessly destroyed the Rattkin Breeders, Milano Calzone, and Don Barlone, as well as any residual pesky Rattkin hanging around the Sixth Bough. We're taking back the trees!

Personally, I'm planning on avoiding all the Crock nonsense by using that speedrun trick that prevents a character from going missing. That way, I don't have to kill Crock, and I don't have an XP imbalance because of this, and I don't have to be down a character.

I like to either run Crock straight or to use tele-portal meta-gaming. The loss of XP is a non-factor in the grand scheme. That's why ending combat with a corpse is fine, well for me.

Since low-level is usually my favorite part of an RPG, I would never do this. it'd ruin the game for me to eliminate any early-game challenges—few as they might be. I can, nevertheless, respect the hustle, and, now, you can enlighten fellow end-users about the quirks of higher levels.

My lovely ladies have yet to squash the breeders, but we did dive into two groovy dark places, which we mapped with gridmonger.

I tend to like the higher levels, as that's when you have more options during combat (and otherwise, if it's a WRPG), and when all the work you've put into your characters and their builds truly plays off.

There's also the fact that someone playing the game for the first time isn't going to be good at it at first, so the game should be gentle to compensate and not make the player quit too early. Then, later on, the difficulty can be increased, now that the player has both the tools and the knowledge to handle that increased difficulty.

Killing the pesky Rattkin actually gives decent items. In particular, they always drop gold, the Rattkin Goons have a 100% drop rate (guaranteed to drop something, including the Ring of the Road and Tinker's Carryall Bracers, items that give the Bard and Gadgeteer +20 to Strength respectively), and the way the Sixth Bough is laid out only allows the melee Rattkin to attack the front character(s), allowing you to protect them with Guardian Angel and or Body of Stone.
Having a high level relative to enemies has many advantages. With Powercast maxed, even enemies with decent resistances to an element will take significant damage from magic. Being so fast, with Snakespeed maxed, allows re-positioning before enemies have a chance to act. Also, the higher AC and hit points don't hurt. Finally, the enemies will usually be unable to harm you with magic (I had Geomancers and Oak Saplings cast Crush at my party members, to no effect).

If only it worked that way... Sure, in some games it does, but often it doesn't. Not in any substantial way, at least. This is where I like Neverwinter Nights, where typical strategy tends to change as a build develops, except, perchance, for a passive feat only pure fighter. Wizards are quite exemplary of this. And, yet, 3e just breaks at higher levels, even before post-twenty epic levels. A shame, since epic building is so fun, even if most epic feats are passive abilities. (Wizard/fighter multis are particularly fascinating, since the spend most of the game as either a mediocre wizard or a mediocre fighter, until, almost at the max level, they become a hybrid beast.) More RPGs could use combat maneuvers.

Wiz8, on the other hand, the strategy only changes due to enemy A.I. Later spells aren't so game-changing or even fun. Different, sure, but not in an entertaining way. In fact, many RPGs suffer from boring magic, what a shame. At least Wiz8 isn't just multi-colored fireballs, like some games.

When one sees an easy early game, it suggests that the game is dead-easy. This, naturally, being a result of the vast majority of RPGs having a reverse difficulty curve.

There are still some spells that change the game significantly:

Level 5:
* Heal All makes healing *much* easier, and changes which classes are best at healing. In particular, Bard/Gadgeteer become better healers than Alchemist/Psionic at this point, because the latter have no multi-target healing. (And healing during combat is actually impactful in this game, unlike some games (including past Wizardries).
* Psionic Blast is a unique attack spell; there's really nothing comparable. Also, there's Toxic Cloud.
* While not usable during combat, the portal spells substantially alter the way the game is played.

Level 6:
* Resurrection means that death is significantly less severe of an issue (though Amulets of Life can give you some of this benefit earlier).
* Quicksand makes instant-death spells an option. This is especially notable for parties that tend to favor single-target damage but happen to have someone who can cast this spell, and it greatly speeds up combat with low level high HP enemies.

Level 7:
* Restoration is a really nice healing spell, and it's even capable of curing silence and afflicted unconsciousness as a result. It's my favorite high level spell. As an added bonus, Bards can get access to this spell as well, and they only need Stamina (which this spell restores) to cast it.
* You can now hit all visible enemies with damage spells.
* AoE damage spells tend to stagnate in power in the teens, but once you can cast the level 7 spells at decent power levels, offensive magic becomes good again.
* Also worth noting that Bard and Gadgeteer, who have sparse options for spell damage earlier (with Shrill Sound and Noxious Fumes being the only AoE damage spells they can actually get without hacking), both get offensive 7th level spells. Gadgeteer especially, but Bards get that Renaissance Lute.

Might I recommend Crystal Project, which definitely does *not* have an inverted difficulty curve? The game starts out relatively easy, but gets really difficult later on.


There's also games with U-shaped difficulty curves, like Paper Sorcerer. It may feel like the game is getting too easy after a while, only for the unsuspecting player to run into a normal encounter that results in a party wipe, which remains a trend in that game up until the end.

As a MDP, I have plenty of squishy characters (Bard, Gadgeteer, Priest, Alchemist, Psionic, Mage). Therefore, I am terrified of being surrounded. Thankfully, everybody in my party maxed Speed and Senses (and Snakespeed expert skill), so they will always act first.
Even if caught out in the open (When are you not? There is always terrain to explore, hidden items to get, etc), I have to rely on instant kill spells (Instant Death and Death Wish for the Priest, Quicksand and Death Cloud for the Alchemist, Instant Death for the Psionic, and Asphyxiation for the Mage). This drains spell points quickly, why is why I'm glad that every caster has 8 Mana Stones (side effect of using these is an increase to the Artifacts skill, which isn't a big deal considering that the Priest and Psionic have the Identify Item spell).
I find that, as I get out into the wilderness areas, a lot of high HP, low level enemies spawn. If I sit there trying to whittle down their HPs with magic spells, it won't be enough, and I will be surrounded. A healthy mix of instant kill spells, combined with damage spells, seems to be the way to go to finish off the few enemies that just won't die (thinning the herd, then slowly killing the survivors).
I did make a rush to the Wilderness Clearing before it becomes the Rapax Away Camp, as I have one of the artifacts (getting a second artifact will make this become the Rapax Away Camp). This makes this the only time-sensitive area in the game.

Just had some more thoughts about characters in my party (which will be what could be called a partial MDP; that is, a party that can act like an MDP when it's most advantageous, but which uses other forms of damage when that's not as effective).

* Dwarf Bishop gets Power Cast at 16. This is one level sooner than Dwarf Priest. One corollary: If you want a Dwarf Priest to learn Power Cast as soon as possible, start the character as a Bishop, and change to Priest later (looks like level 5 at the earliest to not delay Power Cast). Power Strike comes late (assuming Str/Int), at level 18 IIRC.

* Thinking of a Mook Str/Int Ranger. The idea is that the character will be using weapons that take lots of Stamina, but magic isn't as Stamina intensive, so both modes of combat use different resources. Looks like Power Cast at 12 and Power Strike at 13. Spells will be behind a full caster, but Power Cast is obtained at the point where full caster's offensive capability stagnates, giving the hybrid a chance to catch up and contribute meaningfully before the high levels when full casters finally get more powerful area damage spells.

* As a point of comparison, Human Str/Int Bishop gets Power Cast at 12 and Power Strike at 17, not to mention starting with 61/62 Dexterity (instead of 55). Drawback is that the character will be more fragile due to having Bishop HP, only 45 Vitality, and no Dwarven damage resistance.

* At some levels, a battle Priest/Bishop might be well served by casting Superman on self in the first round of a melee battle in order to get extra attacks for the rest of the fight. The main drawback of battle Priests, and one that is almost certainly true for Battle Bishops, is how long it takes for them to get extra attacks.

* Dexterity comparisons are interesting for Dwarven Battle Priest/Bishop. Priest has 35 Dexterity before bonus points, which can be raised to 52 if you invest in Dexterity at character creation. Bishop has 55 but is an apprentice for the first few levels. Hence, it ends up being close, provided that the Priest invests in Dexterity on character creation; even then, a Str/Int Priest will have lower Dex than a Str/Int Bishop! Also, don't forget that the Bishop will have better Senses. (All those higher stat requirements of the Bishop aren't all useless for physical combat; only a couple of them are.)

Reasonable Bard and Gadgeteer builds aren't exactly squishy. In fact, you could go Str/Vit for maximum Stamina, which will give extra HP and Iron Skin from the Vitality, and the Bard can get extra Iron Skin with a specific piece of armor.

Am I a playing a different game? How often is heal-all needed? I hardly ever use it. I'd argue the most game-changing spell in the game is x-ray. And, yes, portals allow for some unnecessary cheese. And speeding up a game that is way too long, but not by enough. (There are better ways to deal with that.) Either way, about the time I finish the easier two retros and have two of the MacGuffins, I tend to get bored with the game. Only level seven spells await at that point, and the most powerful weapons, of course. In fact, I'm currently taking a break right now, but I'm going to try and force myself to finish this party.

When does damage magic fall-off again? My ranged party still finds it rather useful, but they've only reached level fourteen, well, save for the bishop and ninja.

Crystal Project's screenshots and bullet-points contain a lot of my turn-offs, and it's not even phase-based. The idea of a tank in a single-player game is interesting, however. Of course, the only tanking I know much is Overwatch, so...

Some say that Wiz8 is U-shaped. Makes sense, given how many iron-man playthroughs end on the peak.

How are you always caught in the open? Sure, you can't always hug corners, but x-ray shows all the red in the map, once explored, so... Well, save for a new, wide-open areas with super speedy monsters like flying insects and pixies.

Bards and gadgeteers have ranger armor, more or less. And with a heater shield and reflextion... how are they that squishy? Not to mention armorplate, magic screen, missile shield, and, if necessary, guardian angel, body of stone, and the two magic shields.

My party is focused on ranged, but has some ability with all three types of damage. I think I could improve the fun factor a bit, though. Arrgh! too many interesting party ideas, and a lot of dumb gimmicks. Hmm, faeries can use all three bo staves, right?

I use that spell all the time, especially when there's a Bard or Gadgeteer (or both) in the party to stamina cast it.

Among the advantages of this particular spell:
* It's available to Bards and Gadgeteers. Heal Wounds is not. Guardian Angel is available to Gadgeteers, but while it has a similar role to a healing spell, it's not usable for out of battle healing. Restoration is available to Bards, but not until well after Heal All is. Being able to stamina cast this particular spell makes a huge difference, as it is a spell that you can stamina cast.
* For Bishops, this spell will boost Divinity even if the other magic skills are lower. This is helpful for boosting your Divinity high enough to get higher level spells, most notably Restoration.
* Sometimes, multiple characters have taken damage. It takes fewer turns to use Heal All than to use Heal Wounds, especially once you can cast it at mid levels.
* Also, for artifacts using characters, the first item you're likely to get that has charges of a healing spell likely has Heal All.

Assuming your skills are high enough, level 3 magic caps out at level 11, and level 4 magic at level 14. Level 5 lacks any area spells (unless you count Toxic Cloud, which does less damage than Acid Bomb, and Psionic Blast, which is the same strength as Ego Whip and is useful mainly for its unique (among damage spells) targeting and ability to inflict insanity. Level 6 spells take a while to get good and aren't as impressive (no targeting better than cone unless you count the special-purpose Banish), and level 7 spells don't become good until level 20 or so.

So, you're basically at the point where attack magic falls in usefulness for a while, as your area damage spells aren't going to really get any better until level 20 or so.

With that said, there's at least Quicksand, which works well against groups of low level high HP enemies (think Rapax), and is a great time saver, and level 7 has more instant death spells.

One major difference is that, with Crystal Project, battles tend to be more predictable, and strategies tend to be proactive rather than reactive. Battles are about preventing enemies from doing nasty things, or being ready to withstand and recover from the nasty attack you know is coming (because you can peek at the turn order and see what the enemy is going to do next). You might save a character who is about to be attacked by single target healing them, by casting a defensive spell on them, or even by having somebody else taunt the enemy so that they become the target instead.

By contrast, Wizardry 8's battle style is a bit more reactive. You don't know what the enemies will do, or the exact turn order, or that the enemy will cast a sleep spell, putting your second and third characters to sleep. You also have to deal with statuses that have a chance of making actions fail, like nausea, so that spell you've queued up might not actually go off. (Or, maybe the character gets to act, but the spell backfires.) As a result, you may often end up in dangerous situations that can't be prevented with good play (though the odds can be mitigated), and then have to figure out how to recover from them.

One other key difference: In Crystal Project, status ailments tend to be reliable, but they don't last long, and there are limitations on the use of the skills. (The main blind skill only works if the user is bottom threat, while sleep only works once per battle/life per target.) On the other hand, Wizardry 8's status ailments are rather unpredictable, as any Wizardry 8 player would know by now. Maybe your fighter will knock the enemy unconscious, or maybe the enemy will knock *your* fighter unconscious first; there's no way to tell ahead of time.

(Incidentally, for the CRPG I'm making, I'm planning on aiming for a more reactive play style. It already looks like, design wise, it will not be similar to Crystal Project.)

Or you don't have X-Ray available. In particular:
* Before level 8, the spell isn't available at all. (This notably includes Arnika Road.)
* Even then, only Mages reliably have access to it. Bishops need to work on their skills to get the spell at this point.
* Samurai can learn it, but not until level 12.
* Gadgeteers can use the spell, but not until you're about to get the Chaos Moliri, which takes a while and involves exploring most of the mid-game areas.