Posted October 20, 2020
BobZilla84
New User
Registered: Oct 2020
From United States
Roahin
Dungeon Master
Registered: Dec 2013
From United States
Posted October 20, 2020
Yeah, you're going to want to leave Spell Specialization with Magic Missile until at LEAST 7th level.
Roahin
Dungeon Master
Registered: Dec 2013
From United States
Posted October 20, 2020
The Grenadier
Role: Ranged Damage / Support
Race: Elf
Alignment: Any
Final Build: Grenadier 20
Build Notes: I've always had a bit of a problem with Grenadiers and that's that there's not a lot of deviation in their builds. It's like Octavia, you're either going the obvious route down Arcane Trickster, or you're taking a weaker path just for the sake of being different. So go Grenadiers. They don't really benefit from any kind of multiclassing, and most abilities and feats are going to be the same ones that everyone comes to the same conclusion of.
The only thing I differ from most of my contemporaries on with my Grenadier build is that I feel like his ranged touch attack is more than enough without burning Point Blank Shot and Weapon Focus feats. I'd far rather have more bombs per day and focus on buffing his skills as a support character.
Starting Stats
Grenadier-1
10 Strength
16 Dexterity
10 Constitution
19 Intelligence
10 Wisdom
14 Charisma
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Ability Focus (Bomb)
Spells: (1) Bomber's Eye, Cure Light Wounds, Enlarge Person, Shield, Reduce Person, Targeted Bomb Admixture, True Strike
Notes: You want an Elf because his attribute bonuses, Dexterity and Intelligence feed into exactly what the Grenadier needs. He also gets bonuses to Arcana and Perception, two of the class skills for Grenadier.
Why 14 Charisma over say Wisdom when there are two skills for it? There are just too many big XP checks for Persuasion, and the Grenadier has too many free feats to burn to not make a run at them.
Why not Point-Blank Shot? You get Precise Bombs for free, and the +1 attack/damage just isn't worth the feat.
For right now, your Dexterity Mutagen should be your default.
Leveling Stats
Level 2 - Grenadier 2
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Choking Bomb, Precise Bomb(Free)
Spells: (1) Expeditious Retreat
Notes: A lot to pack in this level. I usually recommend against taking Acid Bomb. With Alchemical Weapon you can pre-apply Acid to your bombs. So those times you're facing Trolls, just toss an Acid Flask on your bombs and let them finish it. No, Choking Bomb is the real steal this level. If you don't know, Nauseated creatures can't attack, cast spells, or do much of anything. It's a big AoE crowd control. Use these to lock down groups for easy clean-up, then sweep in with regular bombs when you're ready to kill.
Level 3 - Grenadier 3
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Extra Bombs (11/day)
Spells: (1) Stone Fist
Level 4 - Grenadier 4
Attribute: Intelligence +1
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +2
Feats: Force Bombs
Spells: (2) Cure Moderate Wounds
Notes: There's too much in this game immune to either Fire or Acid. It's good to have a non-elemental attack that nothing is strong against to default to. We can put off Infusion for just now.
Level 5 - Grenadier 5
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Extra Bombs (17/day)
Spells: (2) Lesser Restoration
Level 6 - Grenadier 6
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Infusion
Spells: (2) Barkskin
Level 7 - Grenadier 7
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Extra Bombs (24/day)
Spells: (3) Cure Serious Wounds
Notes: Spell selection is difficult here. If you don't have anyone with Haste, you need it on at least him. Thorn Body is a great spell to buff your tank with. Communal Delay Poison is something that every group needs to trivialize specific encounters. And EVERYONE can always use Cure Serious Wounds. Adjust your builds accordingly to your requirements and desires.
Level 8 - Grenadier 8
Attribute: Intelligence +1
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Fast Bombs
Spells: (3) Haste
Notes: I'm a strong believer in Extra Bombs over Rapid Shot. Rarely are you going to find, especially by this point that your 7d6+10 (assuming Targeted Bombs) is not killing something fast enough. The Grenadier's big weakness is running out of bombs, not their potency.
Level 9 - Grenadier 9
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Skill Focus - Persuasion
Spells: (3) Communal Delay Poison
Notes: It pains me to not take Extra Bombs, but you need that Persuasion check nice and high in later levels, and by around level 10 these feats pay off immediately.
Level 10 - Grenadier 10
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Cognatogen
Spells: (4) Cure Critical Wounds
Level 11 - Grenadier 11
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Improved Critical - Bombs
Spells: (4) Death Ward
Level 12 - Grenadier 12
Attribute: Intelligence +1
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +6
Feats: Greater Cognatogen
Spells: (4) Restoration
Level 13 - Grenadier 13
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Deceitful
Spells: (5) Communal Stoneskin
Level 14 - Grenadier 14
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Preserve Organs
Spells: (4) Freedom of Movement
Level 15 - Grenadier 15
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Extra Bombs (37/day)
Spells: (3) Thorn Body
Notes: If you're still concerned about your Persuasion check heading into the end game, take Persuasive. It's never a bad idea to pump your Perception a bit higher too. Personally, by this point I had well into the +30's and stuck with the Extra Bombs.
Level 16 - Grenadier 16
Attributes: Intelligence +1
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Grand Cognatogen
Spells: (6) Dragonkind I
Notes: There are better level 6 spells. Heal, Transformation, True Seeing, but the Grenadier has the unique ability to cast Dragonkind on other people and populate your group with dragons. It's just too fun not to use.
Level 17 - Grenadier 17
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Extra Bombs (43/day)
Spells: (6) Heal
Level 18 - Grenadier 18
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Mummification
Spells: (6) Transformation
Level 19 - Grenadier 19
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Extra Bombs (49/day)
Spells: (6) True Seeing
Level 20 - Grenadier 20
Attribute: Intelligence +1
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Lore (Nature) +10, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Preserve Organs x2, Awakened Intellect (Bombs: 52/day)
Spells: (3) Remove Blindness
A note on gear: Bokken is going to be your best friend. There's a lot of Grenadier gear in the game and most of it comes from him. You should do his personal quest and set him up as your artisan immediately.
Acerbic Ring - Given by Bokken - Bombs do +1d6 damage
Bomb Thrower's Gloves - River Blades Camp - +2 Attack/+2 DC on bombs
Bombadier's Utility Belt - Given by Bokken - Throw 4 more bombs per day
Bombadier's Vest - Ratnook Hill - grants +2 to hit with bombs
Explosion Ring - Given by Bokken - Bombs do +12 damage more each (!!!)
Gear's Rule (Ring) - Technic League Hideout - +2 attack on bombs, bombs count as if 2 levels higher
Role: Ranged Damage / Support
Race: Elf
Alignment: Any
Final Build: Grenadier 20
Build Notes: I've always had a bit of a problem with Grenadiers and that's that there's not a lot of deviation in their builds. It's like Octavia, you're either going the obvious route down Arcane Trickster, or you're taking a weaker path just for the sake of being different. So go Grenadiers. They don't really benefit from any kind of multiclassing, and most abilities and feats are going to be the same ones that everyone comes to the same conclusion of.
The only thing I differ from most of my contemporaries on with my Grenadier build is that I feel like his ranged touch attack is more than enough without burning Point Blank Shot and Weapon Focus feats. I'd far rather have more bombs per day and focus on buffing his skills as a support character.
Starting Stats
Grenadier-1
10 Strength
16 Dexterity
10 Constitution
19 Intelligence
10 Wisdom
14 Charisma
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Ability Focus (Bomb)
Spells: (1) Bomber's Eye, Cure Light Wounds, Enlarge Person, Shield, Reduce Person, Targeted Bomb Admixture, True Strike
Notes: You want an Elf because his attribute bonuses, Dexterity and Intelligence feed into exactly what the Grenadier needs. He also gets bonuses to Arcana and Perception, two of the class skills for Grenadier.
Why 14 Charisma over say Wisdom when there are two skills for it? There are just too many big XP checks for Persuasion, and the Grenadier has too many free feats to burn to not make a run at them.
Why not Point-Blank Shot? You get Precise Bombs for free, and the +1 attack/damage just isn't worth the feat.
For right now, your Dexterity Mutagen should be your default.
Leveling Stats
Level 2 - Grenadier 2
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Choking Bomb, Precise Bomb(Free)
Spells: (1) Expeditious Retreat
Notes: A lot to pack in this level. I usually recommend against taking Acid Bomb. With Alchemical Weapon you can pre-apply Acid to your bombs. So those times you're facing Trolls, just toss an Acid Flask on your bombs and let them finish it. No, Choking Bomb is the real steal this level. If you don't know, Nauseated creatures can't attack, cast spells, or do much of anything. It's a big AoE crowd control. Use these to lock down groups for easy clean-up, then sweep in with regular bombs when you're ready to kill.
Level 3 - Grenadier 3
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Extra Bombs (11/day)
Spells: (1) Stone Fist
Level 4 - Grenadier 4
Attribute: Intelligence +1
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +2
Feats: Force Bombs
Spells: (2) Cure Moderate Wounds
Notes: There's too much in this game immune to either Fire or Acid. It's good to have a non-elemental attack that nothing is strong against to default to. We can put off Infusion for just now.
Level 5 - Grenadier 5
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Extra Bombs (17/day)
Spells: (2) Lesser Restoration
Level 6 - Grenadier 6
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Infusion
Spells: (2) Barkskin
Level 7 - Grenadier 7
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Extra Bombs (24/day)
Spells: (3) Cure Serious Wounds
Notes: Spell selection is difficult here. If you don't have anyone with Haste, you need it on at least him. Thorn Body is a great spell to buff your tank with. Communal Delay Poison is something that every group needs to trivialize specific encounters. And EVERYONE can always use Cure Serious Wounds. Adjust your builds accordingly to your requirements and desires.
Level 8 - Grenadier 8
Attribute: Intelligence +1
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Fast Bombs
Spells: (3) Haste
Notes: I'm a strong believer in Extra Bombs over Rapid Shot. Rarely are you going to find, especially by this point that your 7d6+10 (assuming Targeted Bombs) is not killing something fast enough. The Grenadier's big weakness is running out of bombs, not their potency.
Level 9 - Grenadier 9
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Skill Focus - Persuasion
Spells: (3) Communal Delay Poison
Notes: It pains me to not take Extra Bombs, but you need that Persuasion check nice and high in later levels, and by around level 10 these feats pay off immediately.
Level 10 - Grenadier 10
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Cognatogen
Spells: (4) Cure Critical Wounds
Level 11 - Grenadier 11
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Improved Critical - Bombs
Spells: (4) Death Ward
Level 12 - Grenadier 12
Attribute: Intelligence +1
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +6
Feats: Greater Cognatogen
Spells: (4) Restoration
Level 13 - Grenadier 13
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Deceitful
Spells: (5) Communal Stoneskin
Level 14 - Grenadier 14
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Preserve Organs
Spells: (4) Freedom of Movement
Level 15 - Grenadier 15
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Extra Bombs (37/day)
Spells: (3) Thorn Body
Notes: If you're still concerned about your Persuasion check heading into the end game, take Persuasive. It's never a bad idea to pump your Perception a bit higher too. Personally, by this point I had well into the +30's and stuck with the Extra Bombs.
Level 16 - Grenadier 16
Attributes: Intelligence +1
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Grand Cognatogen
Spells: (6) Dragonkind I
Notes: There are better level 6 spells. Heal, Transformation, True Seeing, but the Grenadier has the unique ability to cast Dragonkind on other people and populate your group with dragons. It's just too fun not to use.
Level 17 - Grenadier 17
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Extra Bombs (43/day)
Spells: (6) Heal
Level 18 - Grenadier 18
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Mummification
Spells: (6) Transformation
Level 19 - Grenadier 19
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Extra Bombs (49/day)
Spells: (6) True Seeing
Level 20 - Grenadier 20
Attribute: Intelligence +1
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Lore (Nature) +10, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Preserve Organs x2, Awakened Intellect (Bombs: 52/day)
Spells: (3) Remove Blindness
A note on gear: Bokken is going to be your best friend. There's a lot of Grenadier gear in the game and most of it comes from him. You should do his personal quest and set him up as your artisan immediately.
Acerbic Ring - Given by Bokken - Bombs do +1d6 damage
Bomb Thrower's Gloves - River Blades Camp - +2 Attack/+2 DC on bombs
Bombadier's Utility Belt - Given by Bokken - Throw 4 more bombs per day
Bombadier's Vest - Ratnook Hill - grants +2 to hit with bombs
Explosion Ring - Given by Bokken - Bombs do +12 damage more each (!!!)
Gear's Rule (Ring) - Technic League Hideout - +2 attack on bombs, bombs count as if 2 levels higher
Post edited October 20, 2020 by Roahin
BobZilla84
New User
Registered: Oct 2020
From United States
Posted October 20, 2020
Role: Ranged Damage / Support
Race: Elf
Alignment: Any
Final Build: Grenadier 20
Build Notes: I've always had a bit of a problem with Grenadiers and that's that there's not a lot of deviation in their builds. It's like Octavia, you're either going the obvious route down Arcane Trickster, or you're taking a weaker path just for the sake of being different. So go Grenadiers. They don't really benefit from any kind of multiclassing, and most abilities and feats are going to be the same ones that everyone comes to the same conclusion of.
The only thing I differ from most of my contemporaries on with my Grenadier build is that I feel like his ranged touch attack is more than enough without burning Point Blank Shot and Weapon Focus feats. I'd far rather have more bombs per day and focus on buffing his skills as a support character.
Starting Stats
Grenadier-1
10 Strength
16 Dexterity
10 Constitution
19 Intelligence
10 Wisdom
14 Charisma
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Ability Focus (Bomb)
Spells: (1) Bomber's Eye, Cure Light Wounds, Enlarge Person, Shield, Reduce Person, Targeted Bomb Admixture, True Strike
Notes: You want an Elf because his attribute bonuses, Dexterity and Intelligence feed into exactly what the Grenadier needs. He also gets bonuses to Arcana and Perception, two of the class skills for Grenadier.
Why 14 Charisma over say Wisdom when there are two skills for it? There are just too many big XP checks for Persuasion, and the Grenadier has too many free feats to burn to not make a run at them.
Why not Point-Blank Shot? You get Precise Bombs for free, and the +1 attack/damage just isn't worth the feat.
For right now, your Dexterity Mutagen should be your default.
Leveling Stats
Level 2 - Grenadier 2
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Choking Bomb, Precise Bomb(Free)
Spells: (1) Expeditious Retreat
Notes: A lot to pack in this level. I usually recommend against taking Acid Bomb. With Alchemical Weapon you can pre-apply Acid to your bombs. So those times you're facing Trolls, just toss an Acid Flask on your bombs and let them finish it. No, Choking Bomb is the real steal this level. If you don't know, Nauseated creatures can't attack, cast spells, or do much of anything. It's a big AoE crowd control. Use these to lock down groups for easy clean-up, then sweep in with regular bombs when you're ready to kill.
Level 3 - Grenadier 3
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Extra Bombs (11/day)
Spells: (1) Stone Fist
Level 4 - Grenadier 4
Attribute: Intelligence +1
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +2
Feats: Force Bombs
Spells: (2) Cure Moderate Wounds
Notes: There's too much in this game immune to either Fire or Acid. It's good to have a non-elemental attack that nothing is strong against to default to. We can put off Infusion for just now.
Level 5 - Grenadier 5
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Extra Bombs (17/day)
Spells: (2) Lesser Restoration
Level 6 - Grenadier 6
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Infusion
Spells: (2) Barkskin
Level 7 - Grenadier 7
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Extra Bombs (24/day)
Spells: (3) Cure Serious Wounds
Notes: Spell selection is difficult here. If you don't have anyone with Haste, you need it on at least him. Thorn Body is a great spell to buff your tank with. Communal Delay Poison is something that every group needs to trivialize specific encounters. And EVERYONE can always use Cure Serious Wounds. Adjust your builds accordingly to your requirements and desires.
Level 8 - Grenadier 8
Attribute: Intelligence +1
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Fast Bombs
Spells: (3) Haste
Notes: I'm a strong believer in Extra Bombs over Rapid Shot. Rarely are you going to find, especially by this point that your 7d6+10 (assuming Targeted Bombs) is not killing something fast enough. The Grenadier's big weakness is running out of bombs, not their potency.
Level 9 - Grenadier 9
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Skill Focus - Persuasion
Spells: (3) Communal Delay Poison
Notes: It pains me to not take Extra Bombs, but you need that Persuasion check nice and high in later levels, and by around level 10 these feats pay off immediately.
Level 10 - Grenadier 10
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Cognatogen
Spells: (4) Cure Critical Wounds
Level 11 - Grenadier 11
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Improved Critical - Bombs
Spells: (4) Death Ward
Level 12 - Grenadier 12
Attribute: Intelligence +1
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +6
Feats: Greater Cognatogen
Spells: (4) Restoration
Level 13 - Grenadier 13
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Deceitful
Spells: (5) Communal Stoneskin
Level 14 - Grenadier 14
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Preserve Organs
Spells: (4) Freedom of Movement
Level 15 - Grenadier 15
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Extra Bombs (37/day)
Spells: (3) Thorn Body
Notes: If you're still concerned about your Persuasion check heading into the end game, take Persuasive. It's never a bad idea to pump your Perception a bit higher too. Personally, by this point I had well into the +30's and stuck with the Extra Bombs.
Level 16 - Grenadier 16
Attributes: Intelligence +1
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Grand Cognatogen
Spells: (6) Dragonkind I
Notes: There are better level 6 spells. Heal, Transformation, True Seeing, but the Grenadier has the unique ability to cast Dragonkind on other people and populate your group with dragons. It's just too fun not to use.
Level 17 - Grenadier 17
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Extra Bombs (43/day)
Spells: (6) Heal
Level 18 - Grenadier 18
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Mummification
Spells: (6) Transformation
Level 19 - Grenadier 19
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Extra Bombs (49/day)
Spells: (6) True Seeing
Level 20 - Grenadier 20
Attribute: Intelligence +1
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Lore (Nature) +10, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Preserve Organs x2, Awakened Intellect (Bombs: 52/day)
Spells: (3) Remove Blindness
A note on gear: Bokken is going to be your best friend. There's a lot of Grenadier gear in the game and most of it comes from him. You should do his personal quest and set him up as your artisan immediately.
Acerbic Ring - Given by Bokken - Bombs do +1d6 damage
Bomb Thrower's Gloves - River Blades Camp - +2 Attack/+2 DC on bombs
Bombadier's Utility Belt - Given by Bokken - Throw 4 more bombs per day
Bombadier's Vest - Ratnook Hill - grants +2 to hit with bombs
Explosion Ring - Given by Bokken - Bombs do +12 damage more each (!!!)
Gear's Rule (Ring) - Technic League Hideout - +2 attack on bombs, bombs count as if 2 levels higher
OdoFror222
New User
Registered: Jul 2017
From United States
Posted October 29, 2020
This is so awesome I got the game about a month ago now. Crawling through it, but I bought the pathfinder books to understand more about the game and variations it has taken from core D&D of which I played for years, and many years ago. I do only PC and recently Console gaming, but love turned base RPG's. That said, in looking up guides I found the Min/Max guides mostly and just used them to dive in. When I caught some of your responses and then the companion guides I really appreciated what you were doing and believe the same philosophy, to more RP and not try to use the mechanics of the game (min/max) to gain leverage and miss the elements of the game as intended. D&D with a real GM is the truest form, but your thinking aligned with what I was looking for. Not that the other builds don't work, but I was looking for Main characters with that thinking. So I am so excited that you posted this and updated them recently. I almost want to start over as I enter Act 4, to start with your guides in mind, but nothing like having a play through to better understand the mechanics, so I think I will progress forward.
Anyway, my sincere thanks to your guide and thoughts, they are much appreciated and bring appreciation for the Pathfinder game overall!
Anyway, my sincere thanks to your guide and thoughts, they are much appreciated and bring appreciation for the Pathfinder game overall!
Roahin
Dungeon Master
Registered: Dec 2013
From United States
Posted November 11, 2020
Last of the Shattered Tusk
Role: Melee Damage
Race: Half-Orc
Alignment: Chaotic Good, Chaotic Neutral, Chaotic Evil
Final Build: Mad Dog 13 / Sacred Huntsman 3 / Two-Handed Fighter 4
Build Notes: I'm just a big fan of the Mastodon companion, probably more than any other companion you can get. Sure, there are some that are statistically stronger, like the Smilodon, but if you ever played a single playthrough using their Overrun ability you'd be addicted too.
The goal and general RP of this build is to create a Barbarian with a Mastodon pet. In my head, I see him as the last barbarian of a dead Kellid tribe traveling with the last Mastodon of his tribe. The build emphasizes synergizing the two as much as possible.
Starting Stats
Mad Dog-1
Animal Companion: Mastodon
18 Strength
14 Dexterity
14 Constitution
10 Intelligence
14 Wisdom
10 Charisma
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Weapon Focus (Glaive)
Notes: Half-Orcs get a bonus to Perception and Persuasion (Intimidate) checks, so it's good to take advantage of that. We're taking the Glaive because it's one of a few available reach weapons in the game and does more base damage than the Longspear and has better critical damage than the Bardiche. This will help him be a melee damager in the back ranks
Leveling Stats
Level 2 - Mad Dog 2
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Notes: You get Pack Tactics at this level, increasing your flanking with your pet to +4.
Level 3 - Sacred Huntsman 1
Deity: Gorum
Domain: Strength
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Lore (Religion) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Power Attack
Spells: (1) Cure Light Wounds, True Strike
Notes: You could undoubtedly get more mileage out of Mobility or Use Magic Device than Lore (Religion), but I can't reconcile taking levels of a divine caster class and having no religion.
Level 4 - Sacred Huntsman 2
Attribute: Strength +1
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Lore (Religion) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Spells: (1) Expeditious Retreat
Level 5 - Sacred Huntsman 3
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Lore (Religion) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Intimidating Prowess, Outflank
Spells: (1) Protection from Alignment
Notes: This is a huge level for the Shattered Tusk. He gets Solo Tactics and Hunter Tactics, letting him share his teamwork feats with his Mastodon. Outflank and Pack Tactics go hand in hand.
Level 6 - Two-Handed Fighter 1
Skills: Athletics +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Cornugon Smash
Notes: Our Mastodon's progress will temporarily fall of for a level here since we can't use a Fighter bonus feat for Boon Companion.
Level 7 - Two-Handed Fighter 2
Skills: Athletics +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Boon Companion, Precise Strike
Notes: Big level for our guy here. His Mastodon gets a size increase and can now Overrun opponents (he's got a unbuffed CMD of +13 at this point). I recommend having him charge groups of enemies at every opportunity. You won't believe how fun this is. Meanwhile, all of yours and your Mastodon's attacks are doing +1d6 per attack when targeting the same foe.
Level 8 - Two-Handed Fighter 3
Attribute: Strength +1
Skills: Athletics +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Level 9 - Two-Handed Fighter 4
Skills: Athletics +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Weapon Specialization (Glaive), Improved Critical (Glaive)
Level 10 - Mad Dog 3
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Notes: I don't usually like to take less than 7 levels of Two-Handed Fighter and get that delicious double strength damage for all attacks, but anything past that point and we're getting negative gains for our Mastodon and this build is as much about maintaining him as it is the barbarian himself.
Level 11 - Mad Dog 4
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Dazzling Display, Lesser Beast Totem(Rage)
[i]Notes: I don't usually suggest wasting a turn on Dazzling Display unless there's a lot of enemies nearby. No, we're taking this mostly to unlock Dreadful Carnage at the next level-up.[i/]
Level 12 - Mad Dog 5
Attribute: Strength +1
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Notes: Your Mastodon gets Improved Trip this level. It's slightly better against single targets than Overrun. Overrun has a CMD of +18 and Improved Trip of +20.
Level 13 - Mad Dog 6
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Dreadful Carnage
Level 14 - Mad Dog 7
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Level 15 - Mad Dog 8
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Blind Fight, Beast Totem
Notes: You don't want to wait any longer than this to pick up Blind Fight. The endgame is too littered with enemies that have gaze attacks
Level 16 - Mad Dog 9
Attribute: Strength +1
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Level 17 - Mad Dog 10
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Extra Rage Power (Greater Beast Totem)
Level 18 - Mad Dog 11
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Greater Rage
Level 19 - Mad Dog 12
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Shatter Defenses, Fearless Rage
Level 20 - Mad Dog 13
Attribute: Strength +1
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Notes: The unbuffed Overrun check of the Mastodon is +26 and the Improved Trip check is +28. Naturally, you've buffed him with spells and items and have been keeping bosses locked on perma-trip all game... haven't you?
A treatise on finding some Glaives as you advance.
MW Glaive is purchaseable from Oleg at the outset of the game.
Glaive +1 in the Stag Lord's Fort in the Shrike Hills.
Flaming Glaive +2 is a drop from the Nightmare Torpor at the Bald Stones in the Kamelands.
Unholy Glaive +3 "Detterence" is available in the Secluded Lodge during the Hellknight Questline.*
Glaive +4 along with all +4 weapons is sold by the Pitax Trader in Pitax.
Holy Glaive of Ultrasound +5 "Incorruptible Petal" found in the Pitax Royal Chambers.
*I strongly recommend acquiring Detterence and using it as your primary weapon for the majority of the game. +3 is high enough to beat most relevent Damage Reductions, and the weapon grants a +5 bonus on Intimidate checks that stacks with the Half-Orc racials.
Role: Melee Damage
Race: Half-Orc
Alignment: Chaotic Good, Chaotic Neutral, Chaotic Evil
Final Build: Mad Dog 13 / Sacred Huntsman 3 / Two-Handed Fighter 4
Build Notes: I'm just a big fan of the Mastodon companion, probably more than any other companion you can get. Sure, there are some that are statistically stronger, like the Smilodon, but if you ever played a single playthrough using their Overrun ability you'd be addicted too.
The goal and general RP of this build is to create a Barbarian with a Mastodon pet. In my head, I see him as the last barbarian of a dead Kellid tribe traveling with the last Mastodon of his tribe. The build emphasizes synergizing the two as much as possible.
Starting Stats
Mad Dog-1
Animal Companion: Mastodon
18 Strength
14 Dexterity
14 Constitution
10 Intelligence
14 Wisdom
10 Charisma
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Weapon Focus (Glaive)
Notes: Half-Orcs get a bonus to Perception and Persuasion (Intimidate) checks, so it's good to take advantage of that. We're taking the Glaive because it's one of a few available reach weapons in the game and does more base damage than the Longspear and has better critical damage than the Bardiche. This will help him be a melee damager in the back ranks
Leveling Stats
Level 2 - Mad Dog 2
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Notes: You get Pack Tactics at this level, increasing your flanking with your pet to +4.
Level 3 - Sacred Huntsman 1
Deity: Gorum
Domain: Strength
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Lore (Religion) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Power Attack
Spells: (1) Cure Light Wounds, True Strike
Notes: You could undoubtedly get more mileage out of Mobility or Use Magic Device than Lore (Religion), but I can't reconcile taking levels of a divine caster class and having no religion.
Level 4 - Sacred Huntsman 2
Attribute: Strength +1
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Lore (Religion) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Spells: (1) Expeditious Retreat
Level 5 - Sacred Huntsman 3
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Lore (Religion) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Intimidating Prowess, Outflank
Spells: (1) Protection from Alignment
Notes: This is a huge level for the Shattered Tusk. He gets Solo Tactics and Hunter Tactics, letting him share his teamwork feats with his Mastodon. Outflank and Pack Tactics go hand in hand.
Level 6 - Two-Handed Fighter 1
Skills: Athletics +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Cornugon Smash
Notes: Our Mastodon's progress will temporarily fall of for a level here since we can't use a Fighter bonus feat for Boon Companion.
Level 7 - Two-Handed Fighter 2
Skills: Athletics +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Boon Companion, Precise Strike
Notes: Big level for our guy here. His Mastodon gets a size increase and can now Overrun opponents (he's got a unbuffed CMD of +13 at this point). I recommend having him charge groups of enemies at every opportunity. You won't believe how fun this is. Meanwhile, all of yours and your Mastodon's attacks are doing +1d6 per attack when targeting the same foe.
Level 8 - Two-Handed Fighter 3
Attribute: Strength +1
Skills: Athletics +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Level 9 - Two-Handed Fighter 4
Skills: Athletics +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Weapon Specialization (Glaive), Improved Critical (Glaive)
Level 10 - Mad Dog 3
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Notes: I don't usually like to take less than 7 levels of Two-Handed Fighter and get that delicious double strength damage for all attacks, but anything past that point and we're getting negative gains for our Mastodon and this build is as much about maintaining him as it is the barbarian himself.
Level 11 - Mad Dog 4
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Dazzling Display, Lesser Beast Totem(Rage)
[i]Notes: I don't usually suggest wasting a turn on Dazzling Display unless there's a lot of enemies nearby. No, we're taking this mostly to unlock Dreadful Carnage at the next level-up.[i/]
Level 12 - Mad Dog 5
Attribute: Strength +1
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Notes: Your Mastodon gets Improved Trip this level. It's slightly better against single targets than Overrun. Overrun has a CMD of +18 and Improved Trip of +20.
Level 13 - Mad Dog 6
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Dreadful Carnage
Level 14 - Mad Dog 7
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Level 15 - Mad Dog 8
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Blind Fight, Beast Totem
Notes: You don't want to wait any longer than this to pick up Blind Fight. The endgame is too littered with enemies that have gaze attacks
Level 16 - Mad Dog 9
Attribute: Strength +1
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Level 17 - Mad Dog 10
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Extra Rage Power (Greater Beast Totem)
Level 18 - Mad Dog 11
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Greater Rage
Level 19 - Mad Dog 12
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Shatter Defenses, Fearless Rage
Level 20 - Mad Dog 13
Attribute: Strength +1
Skills: Athletics +1, Lore (Nature) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Notes: The unbuffed Overrun check of the Mastodon is +26 and the Improved Trip check is +28. Naturally, you've buffed him with spells and items and have been keeping bosses locked on perma-trip all game... haven't you?
A treatise on finding some Glaives as you advance.
MW Glaive is purchaseable from Oleg at the outset of the game.
Glaive +1 in the Stag Lord's Fort in the Shrike Hills.
Flaming Glaive +2 is a drop from the Nightmare Torpor at the Bald Stones in the Kamelands.
Unholy Glaive +3 "Detterence" is available in the Secluded Lodge during the Hellknight Questline.*
Glaive +4 along with all +4 weapons is sold by the Pitax Trader in Pitax.
Holy Glaive of Ultrasound +5 "Incorruptible Petal" found in the Pitax Royal Chambers.
*I strongly recommend acquiring Detterence and using it as your primary weapon for the majority of the game. +3 is high enough to beat most relevent Damage Reductions, and the weapon grants a +5 bonus on Intimidate checks that stacks with the Half-Orc racials.
Post edited November 11, 2020 by Roahin
Roahin
Dungeon Master
Registered: Dec 2013
From United States
Bezhukov
New User
Registered: May 2015
From United States
Posted December 20, 2020
Role: Ranged Damage / Support
Race: Elf
Alignment: Any
Final Build: Grenadier 20
Build Notes: I've always had a bit of a problem with Grenadiers and that's that there's not a lot of deviation in their builds. It's like Octavia, you're either going the obvious route down Arcane Trickster, or you're taking a weaker path just for the sake of being different. So go Grenadiers. They don't really benefit from any kind of multiclassing, and most abilities and feats are going to be the same ones that everyone comes to the same conclusion of.
The only thing I differ from most of my contemporaries on with my Grenadier build is that I feel like his ranged touch attack is more than enough without burning Point Blank Shot and Weapon Focus feats. I'd far rather have more bombs per day and focus on buffing his skills as a support character.
Starting Stats
Grenadier-1
10 Strength
16 Dexterity
10 Constitution
19 Intelligence
10 Wisdom
14 Charisma
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Ability Focus (Bomb)
Spells: (1) Bomber's Eye, Cure Light Wounds, Enlarge Person, Shield, Reduce Person, Targeted Bomb Admixture, True Strike
Notes: You want an Elf because his attribute bonuses, Dexterity and Intelligence feed into exactly what the Grenadier needs. He also gets bonuses to Arcana and Perception, two of the class skills for Grenadier.
Why 14 Charisma over say Wisdom when there are two skills for it? There are just too many big XP checks for Persuasion, and the Grenadier has too many free feats to burn to not make a run at them.
Why not Point-Blank Shot? You get Precise Bombs for free, and the +1 attack/damage just isn't worth the feat.
For right now, your Dexterity Mutagen should be your default.
Leveling Stats
Level 2 - Grenadier 2
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Choking Bomb, Precise Bomb(Free)
Spells: (1) Expeditious Retreat
Notes: A lot to pack in this level. I usually recommend against taking Acid Bomb. With Alchemical Weapon you can pre-apply Acid to your bombs. So those times you're facing Trolls, just toss an Acid Flask on your bombs and let them finish it. No, Choking Bomb is the real steal this level. If you don't know, Nauseated creatures can't attack, cast spells, or do much of anything. It's a big AoE crowd control. Use these to lock down groups for easy clean-up, then sweep in with regular bombs when you're ready to kill.
Level 3 - Grenadier 3
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Extra Bombs (11/day)
Spells: (1) Stone Fist
Level 4 - Grenadier 4
Attribute: Intelligence +1
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +2
Feats: Force Bombs
Spells: (2) Cure Moderate Wounds
Notes: There's too much in this game immune to either Fire or Acid. It's good to have a non-elemental attack that nothing is strong against to default to. We can put off Infusion for just now.
Level 5 - Grenadier 5
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Extra Bombs (17/day)
Spells: (2) Lesser Restoration
Level 6 - Grenadier 6
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Infusion
Spells: (2) Barkskin
Level 7 - Grenadier 7
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Extra Bombs (24/day)
Spells: (3) Cure Serious Wounds
Notes: Spell selection is difficult here. If you don't have anyone with Haste, you need it on at least him. Thorn Body is a great spell to buff your tank with. Communal Delay Poison is something that every group needs to trivialize specific encounters. And EVERYONE can always use Cure Serious Wounds. Adjust your builds accordingly to your requirements and desires.
Level 8 - Grenadier 8
Attribute: Intelligence +1
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Fast Bombs
Spells: (3) Haste
Notes: I'm a strong believer in Extra Bombs over Rapid Shot. Rarely are you going to find, especially by this point that your 7d6+10 (assuming Targeted Bombs) is not killing something fast enough. The Grenadier's big weakness is running out of bombs, not their potency.
Level 9 - Grenadier 9
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Skill Focus - Persuasion
Spells: (3) Communal Delay Poison
Notes: It pains me to not take Extra Bombs, but you need that Persuasion check nice and high in later levels, and by around level 10 these feats pay off immediately.
Level 10 - Grenadier 10
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1
Feats: Cognatogen
Spells: (4) Cure Critical Wounds
Level 11 - Grenadier 11
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Improved Critical - Bombs
Spells: (4) Death Ward
Level 12 - Grenadier 12
Attribute: Intelligence +1
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +6
Feats: Greater Cognatogen
Spells: (4) Restoration
Level 13 - Grenadier 13
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Deceitful
Spells: (5) Communal Stoneskin
Level 14 - Grenadier 14
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Preserve Organs
Spells: (4) Freedom of Movement
Level 15 - Grenadier 15
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Extra Bombs (37/day)
Spells: (3) Thorn Body
Notes: If you're still concerned about your Persuasion check heading into the end game, take Persuasive. It's never a bad idea to pump your Perception a bit higher too. Personally, by this point I had well into the +30's and stuck with the Extra Bombs.
Level 16 - Grenadier 16
Attributes: Intelligence +1
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Grand Cognatogen
Spells: (6) Dragonkind I
Notes: There are better level 6 spells. Heal, Transformation, True Seeing, but the Grenadier has the unique ability to cast Dragonkind on other people and populate your group with dragons. It's just too fun not to use.
Level 17 - Grenadier 17
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Extra Bombs (43/day)
Spells: (6) Heal
Level 18 - Grenadier 18
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Mummification
Spells: (6) Transformation
Level 19 - Grenadier 19
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Extra Bombs (49/day)
Spells: (6) True Seeing
Level 20 - Grenadier 20
Attribute: Intelligence +1
Skills: Trickery +1, Knowledge (Arcana) +1, Knowledge (World) +1, Lore (Nature) +10, Perception +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Preserve Organs x2, Awakened Intellect (Bombs: 52/day)
Spells: (3) Remove Blindness
A note on gear: Bokken is going to be your best friend. There's a lot of Grenadier gear in the game and most of it comes from him. You should do his personal quest and set him up as your artisan immediately.
Acerbic Ring - Given by Bokken - Bombs do +1d6 damage
Bomb Thrower's Gloves - River Blades Camp - +2 Attack/+2 DC on bombs
Bombadier's Utility Belt - Given by Bokken - Throw 4 more bombs per day
Bombadier's Vest - Ratnook Hill - grants +2 to hit with bombs
Explosion Ring - Given by Bokken - Bombs do +12 damage more each (!!!)
Gear's Rule (Ring) - Technic League Hideout - +2 attack on bombs, bombs count as if 2 levels higher
Yeah, at the end of the day I figured out that Alchemist (i.e. Jub) was really there for the Bombs and gave up on the Archery piece.
That said, Grenadier brings some unique things to the table like Martial Proficiency and Precise Firebreathing so I can't help thinking there's probably a melee build there with Feral Mutagen.
sanctos
New User
Registered: Jun 2016
From United States
Posted December 28, 2020
@Roahin
First off,I LOVE your builds. Im a new player who hasnt made it to act 3 but find myself restarting because I cant get behind the RP of my character or my companions because I keep hearing about min-maxing that has them dip into 5 different classes.
I really like the idea of using greatswords on a paladin, any thoughts on how to make one with decent AC? I will have valerie as a primary tank, and ekundayo will be around for his dog to melee range as well. Should I just try and play it out being enlarged and attacking from out of melee range, or could they be built tanky enough to survive as the game goes on?
First off,I LOVE your builds. Im a new player who hasnt made it to act 3 but find myself restarting because I cant get behind the RP of my character or my companions because I keep hearing about min-maxing that has them dip into 5 different classes.
I really like the idea of using greatswords on a paladin, any thoughts on how to make one with decent AC? I will have valerie as a primary tank, and ekundayo will be around for his dog to melee range as well. Should I just try and play it out being enlarged and attacking from out of melee range, or could they be built tanky enough to survive as the game goes on?
Roahin
Dungeon Master
Registered: Dec 2013
From United States
Posted December 30, 2020
Me too. I blame games like Baldur's Gate 2 and movies like Ironclad, but I always find myself equipping Paladins with greatswords. That said, while there's a ton of holy longswords and bastard swords, there's a dearth of options in Kingmaker for Paladin greatswords. There's only one 'holy' greatsword in the game and you get it in the House at the Edge of Time, when 90% of the game is over. Granted, nothing stops you from using Flaming or Shock greatswords until then, but it would've been nice if some vendor somewhere could've been bothered to stock at least one Holy Greatsword, y'know?
As far as your question about decent AC, it's a complicated question to answer. It sounds like he's not going to be primary tanking, but depending on your play style he may still need a good AC. A good example here is Nok-Nok. He's not a tank, nor do any guides ever really try to make him one. But he is distinctly melee-only. I think most of us try to acquire a reasonable AC for him, but we don't really work too hard on it to where his effectiveness as a frontliner damager is compromised. Ultimately positioning matters more than anything for frontliners.
Anyhow, all the old tricks work just fine with Paladins and some conceptually too. Aasimar make fine Paladins and have the racial feat for Wings to get a +3 AC bonus (though I personally prefer Human Paladins). Divine Guardians can Divine Troth themselves for free AC as well. Multiclassing opens up some options as well. Fighter levels can increase your max Dex bonus for easy AC as you find belts that enhance multiple attributes. Dragon Disciple also has a lot of synergy with Paladins (though again, I actually prefer straight Paladins). And finally, something that I've always strongly enjoyed doing but is woefully underutilized by most builders and players out there is taking advantage of Use Magic Device. The naturally high Charisma of the Paladin really helps, and that ambush fight is a lot easier when you can Mirror Image, Haste, Stoneskin and generally stack the fifty million scrolls clogging your inventory onto yourself.
As far as your question about decent AC, it's a complicated question to answer. It sounds like he's not going to be primary tanking, but depending on your play style he may still need a good AC. A good example here is Nok-Nok. He's not a tank, nor do any guides ever really try to make him one. But he is distinctly melee-only. I think most of us try to acquire a reasonable AC for him, but we don't really work too hard on it to where his effectiveness as a frontliner damager is compromised. Ultimately positioning matters more than anything for frontliners.
Anyhow, all the old tricks work just fine with Paladins and some conceptually too. Aasimar make fine Paladins and have the racial feat for Wings to get a +3 AC bonus (though I personally prefer Human Paladins). Divine Guardians can Divine Troth themselves for free AC as well. Multiclassing opens up some options as well. Fighter levels can increase your max Dex bonus for easy AC as you find belts that enhance multiple attributes. Dragon Disciple also has a lot of synergy with Paladins (though again, I actually prefer straight Paladins). And finally, something that I've always strongly enjoyed doing but is woefully underutilized by most builders and players out there is taking advantage of Use Magic Device. The naturally high Charisma of the Paladin really helps, and that ambush fight is a lot easier when you can Mirror Image, Haste, Stoneskin and generally stack the fifty million scrolls clogging your inventory onto yourself.
Serkyann
New User
Registered: Jan 2021
From Brazil
Posted January 03, 2021
First off I just wanted to say I just had to create an account to say how much these guides helped me, I have no knowledge of the Pathfinder system, and I was pretty lost in character creation after buying the game after being introduced to it by Cohh Carnage's playthrough...anyway
I do have a question, I don't know if you even still play this game, but I need to know, do you have any builds involving Kineticist? I liked the class from its description, but I have no clue how it works =P sorry to bother you with this just wanted to ask that and thank you again for the builds.
By the by, is the Sword Saint/Duelist the only Human build? Can the other races ones be adapted, or are they dependent of their specific races? >.< Sorry for the bother ._.
EDIT: Sorry, forgot to mention something, so I'm following the Human build, and at level 3 it says to take Aldori Dueling Mastery and Extend Spell, I can get Aldori Dueling Mastery well enough, but the Magus Feat Extend Spell doesn't show, I have Arcane Something something (a sword enchantment feat), Wand Wielder, and a third one I don't quite remember, but no Extend Spell...
I do have a question, I don't know if you even still play this game, but I need to know, do you have any builds involving Kineticist? I liked the class from its description, but I have no clue how it works =P sorry to bother you with this just wanted to ask that and thank you again for the builds.
By the by, is the Sword Saint/Duelist the only Human build? Can the other races ones be adapted, or are they dependent of their specific races? >.< Sorry for the bother ._.
EDIT: Sorry, forgot to mention something, so I'm following the Human build, and at level 3 it says to take Aldori Dueling Mastery and Extend Spell, I can get Aldori Dueling Mastery well enough, but the Magus Feat Extend Spell doesn't show, I have Arcane Something something (a sword enchantment feat), Wand Wielder, and a third one I don't quite remember, but no Extend Spell...
Post edited January 03, 2021 by Serkyann
kony12345
New User
Registered: Mar 2020
From Czech Republic
Posted January 09, 2021
Bomb Thrower's Gloves - River Blades Camp - +2 Attack/+2 DC on bombs
Bombadier's Utility Belt - Given by Bokken - Throw 4 more bombs per day
Bombadier's Vest - Ratnook Hill - grants +2 to hit with bombs
Explosion Ring - Given by Bokken - Bombs do +12 damage more each (!!!)
Gear's Rule (Ring) - Technic League Hideout - +2 attack on bombs, bombs count as if 2 levels higher
kony12345
New User
Registered: Mar 2020
From Czech Republic
Posted January 09, 2021
Cait108
New User
Registered: Dec 2020
From Australia
Posted January 11, 2021
ArcaneFlash's Paladin
Role: Melee Damage
Race: Aasimar (Angelkin)
Alignment: Lawful Good
Final Build: Divine Guardian 3 / Eldritch Scion 3 / Dragon Disciple 4
Starting Stats
Divine Guardian-1
16 Strength
14 Dexterity
14 Constitution
14 Intelligence
10 Wisdom
16 Charisma
Skills: Mobility +1, Lore (Religion) +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword)
Notes: The only real difference between three levels of core Paladin/Hospitaller and Divine Guardian and that's the Divine Troth By level 3 the Divine Guardian can just target himself and functionally have a +4 unclassified bonus to his AC.
Mobility we take in case you ever want to Fight Defensively in the future. 3 ranks is an inexpensive investment for a permanent payout. Religion and UMD both get racial bonuses to them.
Leveling Stats
Level 2 - Divine Guardian 2
Skills: Athletics +1, Mobility +1, Trickery +1
Level 3 - Divine Guardian 3
Skills: Athletics +1, Mobility +1, Trickery +1
Feats: Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword)
Notes: This early on, the name of the game is just landing hits, so we take Weapon Focus. However, if worst comes to worst and you find yourself stepping in for the fallen tank or being targeted outside her... Assuming you're wearing Chainmail or better and Tartuccio's Ring, you have at least a 23AC with Divine Troth, and 26AC when fighting defensively. Not bad for no shield or crane style!
Level 4 - Eldritch Scion 1
Attribute: Charisma +1
Bloodline: Gold Dragon
Skills: Knowledge (Arcana) +3
Spells: (1) Enlarge Person, Shield
Notes: Arcana is for eventual Dragon Disciple levels. With the spell Enlarge Person your attack bonus remains the same (size penalty canceled out by STR mod), but your bastard sword now does 2d8+6 over its former 1d10+4. That's a pretty impressive damage boost. Shield will get you up to 30AC if you find you need to tank with this guy.
Level 5 - Eldritch Scion 2
Skills: Knowledge (Arcana) +2, Lore (Religion) +1
Feats: Power Attack
Spells: (1) Shocking Grasp
Notes: You get Spellstrike this level so there was no sense taking Shocking Grasp last level. But now you can begin channeling those attacks into your sword. I'd probably save my spell slots for Enlarge Person though, at least until you level a bit more and Shocking Grasp starts doing real damage.
Also, and I've noticed a lot of people don't seem to realize this. When you're NOT casting, you should NOT have Spell Combat up. It makes you one-hand your Bastard Sword, weakening your Strength bonus and your Power Attack output. I usually recommend disabling Power Attack if you are using Spell Combat. You really ought not have them both active simultaneously, it's a waste.
Most people have the Stag Lord defeated at 5. Remember that afterwards in your new Capital, Hassuf sells a +1 Flaming Bastard Sword!
Level 6 - Dragon Disciple 1
Skills: Lore (Religion) +1, Use Magic Device +2
Feats: Dragon Resistance (Nat Armor +1), Natural Armor (Nat Armor +1) (Total Natural Armor: +2)
Spells: (1) Mage Armor (Free)
Notes: Dragon Disciple stacks with your Eldritch Scion levels for determining your Gold Dragon abilities. It should also be noted any fire spell you cast now does +1 damage per die rolled. Nothing you can take advantage of... yet.
Level 7 - Dragon Disciple 2
Attribute: Strength +2
Skills: Lore (Religion) +2, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Cleave, Toughness
Spells (1) True Strike
Notes: You will occasionally run into frustrating bosses who seem to need 20's to even land a hit. It behooves you to have True Strike on your repetoire.
Level 8 - Dragon Disciple 3
Attribute: Charisma +1
Skills: Lore (Religion) +1, Use Magic Device +2
Spells: (2) Mirror Image, Frigid Touch, Resist Energy(Free)
Notes: Why not either fire spell? Scorching Ray is liable to miss more times than hit without Precise Shot, and Molten Orb is just 2d6+2 with your racial, well under what just a regular attack would do and WELL under channeling Frigid Touch into your attack.
Level 9 - Dragon Disciple 4
Attribute: Strength +2
Skills: Lore (Religion) +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Cleaving Finish, Natural Armor (Total Natural Armor: +3)
Spells: (2) Blur
Notes: You're now sitting on an unaugmented 20 Strength, but probably at least a 22 with a belt by now. From here on out though, we're going straight Eldritch Scion.
Level 10 - Eldritch Scion 3
Skills: Lore (Religion) +1, Persuasion +1, Use Magic Device +1
Feats: Extended Magic
Spells: (2) Glitterdust
Notes: Most of your self-buffs tend to have short durations of 1m/level, like Enlarge Person, Mirror Image, Blur, etc. It's not a bad idea to cast those Extended as much as you can. Maybe get a few encounters worth out of each one and free more spells to be channeled into Shocking Grasp or Frigid Touch.
Some general advice going past this point. I probably wouldn't put too many more points into Use Magic Device. The DC to cast from scrolls is 20+Spell Level, so popular choices like Restoration DC 24, Raise Dead DC 25, Heal DC 26, Greater Restoration DC 27, etc. are already pretty close to your wheelhouse since you're at about a 20 anyhow without any items buffing your Charisma up AND you'll be raising Charisma as you level besides. I'd probably go Religion+1/Persuasion+2 for awhile. Eventually segue your high Charisma and high Strength into Cornugon Smash.
Improved Critical is a good pick too. There are a lot of great Bastard Swords in the game, but not too many of them are keen (or any of them that I remember, frankly). You should get your Community rank to a III asap so you can unlock the North Narlmarches region and from there, get the vendor Shaynih'a. She'll make you a +4 Bastard Sword that increases Charisma by +6. Surprisingly, it's one of her lower and easier to obtan items.
Once you hit third level spells, it's time to start investing in fire spells proper to take advantage of your gold dragon heritage. Those 10d6+10 fireballs are intense, especially when you hit Eldritch Scion 6 grab Empowered Magic and start making them do another 50% on top for free.
Lastly, I'd avoid spending too many (or any) feats into tanking abilities like Crane Style, Dodge, Armor Focus and the like. Unless your goal is tank from the outset, you should really focus more on just increasing your damage output and let your designated tank (probably Valerie) do her job. You've covered your bases with having Mobility-enhanced Fighting Defensively, innate Natural Armor, self-targeted Divine Troth without having to have sacrificed levels of feats to get them. That should normally be enough.
Masterlink7
New User
Registered: Jun 2013
From United States
Posted January 13, 2021
https://www.gog.com/forum/pathfinder_kingmaker/confirmed_varnholds_lot_undocumented_new_class_features_list
Post edited January 13, 2021 by Masterlink7