I'll grant you one thing. There was this moment in Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal where I encountered a single lich in its underground lair. By that point my cleric had become so powerful that I merely had to activate his Turn Undead ability and calmly walk him towards the lich, and the lich simply exploded from so much holy power emanating from the cleric. I just sat there and thought, wow. :o Now THAT was power, and it involved no flashy effects whatsoever. But such moments are few and far between compared to, say, giving a final pleasant memory to a dying old man in To the Moon...

I do too. DarkZephyr had fair and reasonable opinions as far as I recall, and never behaved in a trollish fashion, so what got you nasty there?

I do not know what I need to "learn" all that much when I take a simple view that any fellow gamer should be able to enjoy or hate any given game as much as I do on gaming and writing merits - that I think should seek to include, and not to exclude, nonetheless.

Anything fundamentally wrong with that pray?

Once you enjoy the pimple popping, grovelling, slave raping creature of a dethmold upon actually playing TW2 - do feel free to come back and tell me what you think. I am surprised you were unkind to DarkZephyr in these fora and comment on my personal filters without first hand opinion.

Naïve or not, but I do nonetheless believe that for most part there is solidarity between committed gamers: if we really enjoy our own preferred immersion - male/female/human/exotic race/RPG/shooter/hetero/gay/tank/rogue/black/white - why should we not wish that our fellow gamers should enjoy nothing less?

To me, if a straight male or a male gay gamer enjoys his RPG as well as I do, for example, it reduces nothing from my enjoyment. But then again, if either should suffer, it bothers me as well, and rightly so, I think.

Edit: trying to figure italics.

It's bit more nuanced than that I think.

Minus Tomb Rider, I cannot think of any other Single Choice Lead Character Campaigns with a female hero - and I even think of Tomb Rider because it is rather famous, as it is not withing the type of games I like.

Romancing: the only game where I think female lead got the more interesting end of the stick was Neverwinternights 2 (NWN2) - and this was btw actually the teaser romance with Bishop, not the romance proper with Casavir.

Romancing: the only game where I thought the gay romance was the sweetest is Dragon Age II (DAII) - besides getting my notes on the lead male vocal lead, good work, I noticed that Andreas warmed up better to my male hero.

Age: meanwhile, I also noticed during the above experiment that the default male hero in DAII was a middle aged man, and the default female hero in her early twenties by looks. And these were supposed to be the same person!

Non-white, non exotic race major characters: Aarin Gand (Neverwinter Nights), a NPC, and Dynaheir (Baldur's Gate), a rather bland mage compared with deliciously devious Edwin.

Grand Theft Auto - I let anyone having played it to comment if it was gender neutral, but the reviews seemed to indicate that not.

Grand heros: any minorities here, racial (non exotic) or sexual?

Villains: Dethmold.

I tend to favor RPGs, so I would much appreciate complementing remarks on the above, or other points.

I thought that was called the silver medal. ;-)

And displeasing some, say the evil, the sexist, the misogynist and the racist, can also be quite righteous, really.

It won't be popular, but horseshit anyway.

If you like it buy, if not, don't.

Do we really want to waste our lives picking fleas off an uncaring horse's ass?

Things are as they are, and it is much better to learn how to deal with things, than trying to prevent them; it doesn't work.

Those that want to be all politically correct, are just tiny, would be, dictators, relying on consensus to make up for their lack of argument.

Napoleon and Hitler, both would of received the silver medal if people viewed real life as something similar to the Olympic Games... Napoleon was forced to live out the rest of his life on some shitty island and Hitler was forced to kill himself. These two men have almost nothing in common but I used them as my examples because they were two men who ended up...being 2nd place...
The whole politically correct thing is dangerous in my opinion because all it takes is some power hungry people to go on some crusades and then they can seize powerful positions that allow them to take away all our freedom. This is happening, right now.

We are most certainly in agreement on the politically correct thing, but not as to its projection.

I don't know how it will end, but I don't go along with any encroachments upon our freedoms, and I do not comply with them either.

I stay within the law to where their nanny shit hurts them economically, while it only inconveniences me. I am not their enemy, but I will not support the brand of idiocy that is interjecting itself into each and every aspect of my life.

If the people want it, good, pay for it, but I will take nothing, and give nothing either. I can live on shit and nothing, let them try it.

Hi. You are asking me what you should learn, so please allow me to tell, in this exact situation you fail to admit when you are factually wrong. You wrote a few posts back "I was fooled by TW2", so you still consider and believe the game is "anti-gay".. I am repeating myself from my previous post but objectively, with the presence of other meaningful and positive gay characters within the Witcher 2 game, it is factual the writing is not homophobic.. Certainly not as a whole beside this specific characterization of "Dethmold", in benefit of the doubt and as I am pointing out just like several other forum members did in your past thread, both male and female homosexuality would have been treated in a same way, his homosexuality would have been a or the reason for his execution if your assumptions were right, so..

In any case, as I stated and be my guest to try and verify, you can't please everyone. Too bad male homosexuals were misrepresented with "Dethmold", but it seems homosexual females were "lucky" with "Philippa and Cynthia".. What message is there, that gay women can very well carry themselves in a warfare and gay men can also be powerful bastards, their personal, sexual preferences are not a joker card..? What is wrong with this? It is a design decision of the authors of the game and it shows they are not subjected to "political correctness" as tools for deceitful lobbies painting rainbows over suffered conditions.. I respect and support that.

The game is "Rated M", so you can rightfully expect its players and viewers are aware it is a work of fiction, anyway.. Actually very realistic as Dethmold is Dethmold, and not everyone's gay man for the quota!

As for how and why @DarkZephyr got me quite nasty back then, the conflict had to do with me first hand mistaking your thread for the other "trollish" one "disappointed of too few gay content", the good being us both standing for the human person dignity against all odds somehow, but the bad being our different means and ways opposing us irreconciliably with me defending it through the Truth of God's Word, and him / her defending the homosexual behavior and practice, not aknowledging these are at cause for damaging a person's dignity in the first place and voicing claims for illegitimate "rights" discrimination.. But let's not beat a dead horse, please.

Right back at ya - hi that is. I appreciate as such that you are upfront about the fact that you have not played TW2 - but this also means that you should claim a fair ("objective") subjective view only once you have played this title. It is not too late to PM and apologize to DZ, either, if you wish.

In my single play-through, either Philippa or Cynthia, cannot remember which one now, hanged herself. So one highly unhappy, and I do think coincidentally lesbian, person there.

Or maybe not. At that time, Poland made regrettable news of openly anti-gay symbol being approved by the Constitutional Court as a Party Emblem.

It is not about pleasing everyone, but rather pleasing or displeasing without a particular bias.

I actually do believe that history is mainly opportunistic, with any given hitler or napoleon being easily replaced with any other cool-handed power hungry demagog.

As well as any given de gaulle or churchill would have been replaced with any other cool-handed power-hungry politician with an admirably clear enemy.

The deep revolutionary would not care for power (Jesus?). But then again, has a revolution ever been blind to the gender, or race?

Hi. Yes, my contribution about TW2 is only "objective" as an "impartial outsider", as I have not played the game, yet.

Subjectively, I think I would react just like you and most people, and find "Dethmold" a disgusting criminal.. I have, like all of us I dare to hope, zero tolerance for sexual abuses.. As the game authors seems to have understood and scened it, his victim being of the same gender only aggravate things and "Dethmold" being cut clear of his "tool" seems a fit punishment to that.. Sorry.

Our current discussion highlights something though, it seems the focus of the game authors on Dethmold is not his homosexuality at all, but his creepy abuses, as a shameful consequence of being a powerful man in this game, as a sorcerer and a politician..

As for the infamous "political correctness".. The issue is highly complex, but this quotation sums up pretty much everything I have against the gay activists propaganda pushing claims for "unfair discrimination" and "equality" in each and every aspects of our lives..

“Gender, race and impairment all relate to what a person is, whereas homosexuality relates to what a person does.”

For me to apologize to @DarkZephyr.. Our argument was not about "Dethmold" and TW2 chosen way to portray male homosexuality (or rather to USE it, as within the game's context it can't be mistaken for "romantic interest") so I don't believe I have been unfair to him or her in that event. Certainly not for the real issue we had beside the "tone" of my words.

Thanks though, for reminding me. I trust we live to learn as a higher purpose, mainly through our "experiences" and more often than not, our mistakes.. To fix these mistakes, thus correcting our flaws, and strive to find forgiveness from people we regret to hurt, to have hurt in this process to self-improvement.. On that, it seems we can fully agree. So, thank you! :)

Unrelated addition, I read in your other reply to another post, you write : "I actually do believe that history is mainly opportunistic."
Indeed! "Winners" make, write their "history" for the reference, "losers" are / were the enemies and therefore lose, got lost.. Always!

Edit : @TStael, I'm playing the Witcher 2, finally.. By the tavern in the forest town, looking for Triss's whereabouts in the other witch's room upstairs, I've just found in the next room the woman's owner crying over her friend / prostitute worker, killed.. She explained there's a hole in the wall and they heard noises, while seemingly engaged in lesbian sex.. Geralt and I think the bard stood still silently, while she argued and justified herself with, "hey, we weren't doing anything wrong, I was just comforting my girl mistreated by some clients.."

So we both have some more points proven right here, for you the negative / moral disapproval is apparently there by Geralt and the bard at least, while both remained neutrally mute.. Hence for me, the neutral / positive portrayal of such scenes for lesbians is also there..

By all the gathered evidence, I believe it safe to conclude by now, with all such efforts made in nuancing homosexuality's portrayal and morality taken into account, that actually the game design does NOT support an "anti-gay" stance, on the contrary it is very open to the player's own intepretation, proving you ARE wrong in your assumptions, as I first pointed out.. Period.

heh, people tend to like realistic games i suppose, but you dont want the realism to reach everywhere do you :) I am not seeing any blondes there. I have deep brown hair myself, but certainly blonde men are being oppressed.

google up "The Gamer" manhwa when youre bored :)

No thank you, not fan of Blonde Hair :P

Black hair all the way.

I am not sure if you might be just very young, and grow from a mancub into a person in fullness of time, or just someone who is particularly hard-set with their "going in" position.

You have not played TW2 so let us not discuss that too much. On a more general level, a dethmold here or there would not bother me, if there had been as poignantly written homosexual heros or NPCs in the RPG genre - on balance of things. Have I missed some, pray tell.

Sexual abuses... well, the King in TW2 was a rapist - and in my gameplay I killed him, though there was no pimple popping or begging. Then again: I was quite upset to read about a study into prostitution surveyed in Ireland, Finland, Cyprus, Bulgaria and Lithuania, where hardly no-one had cancelled the intended transaction and reported to the police upon indications that the prostitute was victim of human trafficking. As a concrete case, in Finland, a 16 year old Romanian was forced to prostitute herself, and had some 200 customers over a period of three months or so. I am glad to say her pimps went into prison for thee years, eventually, but... none of these "clients" came forward to the police. And this was a child!

As to DZ: substance over form. Where you unkind, or not?