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General discussion (archive)RockPaperSocialjustice is at it again(841 posts)(841 posts)
(841 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted November 23, 2013
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nijuu: Wasnt there a time when review sites were all about just reviewing games instead of talking about ethical, moral and other issues in games?. How many people are going to not buy X game just cause Y company said Z about so and so issue?. I kind of get sick of this sort of thing. People blow it out of proportion
I for one am not buying Deponia 2&3, I can agree that they most probably say these things to get attention.
But if a game is really sexist, who is going to say it otherwise?
Posted November 23, 2013
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zotofmu: I'll admit that I don't play in the MOBA community, but is it really rife with special insults for men (without regard for sexual orientation): "jokes" about their inherent inability to play well due to their gender, very specific swears loaded with centuries of sexual and social oppression, crude reference to their unique body parts, "humor" about weight, propositions?

I think it's disingenuous to imply that men and women should react equally the same to insults and hostility when they don't receive nearly an equal level of such. Most men simply don't face the kind or amount of abuse that women do in gaming.

To my knowledge, feminism (or other such movements), don't say everyone should be equal. They merely say everyone should be treated equally. And that is not what is happening.
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MaximumBunny: Everyone's insulted equally in online games. But instead of focusing on the problems of insults themselves being the issue (why should insults be around at all?) people are trying to turn it into a sexist/feminist agenda. That's what makes the entire argument BS and why RPS and Kotaku are idiots.

People will always use whatever insults they believe will hurt the person the most, whether it's based on the size of their genitals, their insecurities, their gender/race...but those are details and who cares about the details when a girl gamer is being attacked? White knights to the rescue! And it's not because it's a damsel in distress, no no no...that would be sexist. Gender neutral person in distress who happens to be female and thusly needing of help! Forget about the racists, homophobes, and general mean people. It's the sexists that are wrong with the world!

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zotofmu: So... don't bother trying to make things better? We can't make it perfect, so just ignore it?
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MaximumBunny: You're welcomed to try to reform/erase Shariah and similar primitive laws from the world if you're able to. I never said to ignore it, but I don't see an army behind you ready to die to make it happen. Maybe try holding up a sign on a local news station? That usually works.

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FearfulSymmetry: You might want to look at this website. I've linked you to the death threats page, but there are plenty of other unpleasant categories. Like get back to the kitchen ones. I've googled, but I can't seem to find a similar website for men. I don't know about you, but I think the comment in the article has a very valid point.
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MaximumBunny: Kill and rape threats aren't anything new, it's just that females are more offended about it than men and they put it up everywhere to make it a headline. Guys get death threats and threats about what type of things the tantrum kid would like to do with the body all of the time. It's much easier to find women complaining about it than men though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mO5OTaq-mpw

A friend of mine has a threat where the killer was going to find him in 6 years or so. That one was pretty hilarious. As guys, we don't take these things as an insult to our gender and/or life insecurities. Like the video I linked, that's a typical guy response. You either learn to have thick skin or you live your life offended by everything.
+1 Couldn't have said it better. It's not the goal of RPS that's the problem. It's their narrow minded and delusional solutions. They also like to cherry pick bits and pieces of the problem (like "sexism"), and ignore the bigger picture (the overall lack of respect and empathy in ALL of society, not just "teenage boys" or whoever they think are being sexist).
Posted November 23, 2013
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FearfulSymmetry: You might want to look at this website. I've linked you to the death threats page, but there are plenty of other unpleasant categories. Like get back to the kitchen ones. I've googled, but I can't seem to find a similar website for men. I don't know about you, but I think the comment in the article has a very valid point.
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MaximumBunny: Kill and rape threats aren't anything new, it's just that females are more offended about it than men and they put it up everywhere to make it a headline. Guys get death threats and threats about what type of things the tantrum kid would like to do with the body all of the time. It's much easier to find women complaining about it than men though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mO5OTaq-mpw

A friend of mine has a threat where the killer was going to find him in 6 years or so. That one was pretty hilarious. As guys, we don't take these things as an insult to our gender and/or life insecurities. Like the video I linked, that's a typical guy response. You either learn to have thick skin or you live your life offended by everything.
Really? And what are you basing that on? Where does it say that women get more offended than men? There might be more articles/websites/clips of women complaining than men complaining, but have you considered the possibility of that being because they get more threats than men do? It's impossible to be sure which of those two options is true without research, and even then that research might be inconclusive. You might want to be careful about making blanket statements like those, though.

Of course men get threatened too. Everyone gets insults thrown their way sometimes. And of course you need to learn to shrug it off. But you saying that women get offended more easily and then turn into attention seekers is pretty uncalled for.
Posted November 23, 2013
I dread the day video games talk about race, oh I can hear it in my head now:

"Why is it the every video game protaginist is white and western I.E American or European"

"Why can't non white/westernish protaginists be portrayed in realistic everyday stories that people of all races could go through or even save the world stories"

The closest thing to fix these problems is RPGs with multiple race choices. Fallout 3 did it right.
Post edited November 23, 2013 by Elmofongo
Posted November 23, 2013
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Crosmando: snip
Ouch man, Psyringe totally destroyed you...

Hope you at least read and considered his/her response rather than just completely writing it off..
Posted November 23, 2013
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MaximumBunny: Everyone's insulted equally in online games. But instead of focusing on the problems of insults themselves being the issue (why should insults be around at all?) people are trying to turn it into a sexist/feminist agenda. That's what makes the entire argument BS and why RPS and Kotaku are idiots.
No, you see, you're just taking things out of context!
What matters is that if Blizzard makes a MOBA game where one of Nova's skins bares some of her thigh, then people are going to insult women, who will in turn feel helpless instead of empowered by her looks (which is what all female characters are judged based on).
Posted November 23, 2013
I'll be honest, I have not read this entire thread, as I am afraid I will end up on a very lengthy rant about this topic in general. It is one that has certainly frustrated me as of late.

In regards to the RPS article, I find this all absurd. The developer was blunt about the situation by saying they are not trying to be political about this topic, and to me, that is fine. They are well within their rights to do that. This is their product and their vision, and they are allowed to create it however they see fit. I often feel websites like RPS are on their own holy crusade to shame any developer that does not try to push a progressive view that matches their own, and I am not really sure that is the best way to go about things.

On a more general note, I feel Blizzard has done really well with many of their past female characters, and I have certainly never been offended by them or felt as though I were an unwelcome member of their gaming community. If anything, these RPS articles offend me more than anything Blizzard has put out.

As I have stated before in other threads here, I am all for better female character design, but I feel "journalists" are also going too far with this topic and lost sight of the real message a long time ago. For me personally, I feel there is nothing wrong with sexy and/or feminine female characters, and I am tired of websites telling me how wrong all of this is. As a girl, I prefer that over a generic female design that just looks like the rest of the guys.
Post edited November 23, 2013 by Kurina
Posted November 23, 2013
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Siannah: Since when is RPS just a review site?
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nijuu: What exactly is it then?
From their about us page: "it aims to cover everything from the latest breaking stories about the biggest releases to esoterica from the format’s obscurest peninsulas."

We can argue about what the scope of a site is or isn't and if they even remotely achieve it. But even attempting to reduce a site to "just do reviews" because they dare to have an opinion, is beyond words... or objective arguments.

Several times the reasoning "vote with your wallet if it bothers you" has been brought up - how about you guys do so with RPS by not visiting them? But I forgot, your opinion matters, while they should respectfully shut up because theirs is different then yours.
PS: I did. By adding them to my adblock whitelist.
Post edited November 23, 2013 by Siannah
Posted November 23, 2013
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Kurina: On a more general note, I feel Blizzard has done really well with many of their past female characters, and I have certainly never been offended by them or felt as though I were an unwelcome member of their gaming community. If anything, these RPS articles offend me more than anything Blizzard has put out.
Have you seen the one where they go through the entire Heart of the Swarm campaign and take a screenshot every time Kerrigan's ass is on display? Yeah, that actually happened... and they tried to make a point with that.
Posted November 23, 2013
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FearfulSymmetry: ...but have you considered the possibility of that being because they get more threats than men do? It's impossible to be sure which of those two options is true without research, and even then that research might be inconclusive...

Of course men get threatened too. Everyone gets insults thrown their way sometimes. And of course you need to learn to shrug it off. But you saying that women get offended more easily and then turn into attention seekers is pretty uncalled for.
Not attention seekers, more vocal about it. And on your note, you might also want to consider that "Man was threatened on the internet in a game" is not a news headline that would attract nearly as much attention.

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Vestin: No, you see, you're just taking things out of context!
What matters is that if Blizzard makes a MOBA game where one of Nova's skins bares some of her thigh, then people are going to insult women, who will in turn feel helpless instead of empowered by her looks (which is what all female characters are judged based on).
Ah, I see. I'm still waiting for male couch potato heroes who will dominate the big chested, 6 pack abs champion that's the current objectification of our gender. Then and only then will we be free! :P
Posted November 23, 2013
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Kurina: snip
Thank you for this post. It's always nice to hear an opinion from a woman who doesn't feel offended by sexy video game characters.

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Vestin: Have you seen the one where they go through the entire Heart of the Swarm campaign and take a screenshot every time Kerrigan's ass is on display? Yeah, that actually happened... and they tried to make a point with that.
Well, they did a fine job, to tell you the truth.

Now I have nice folder "Kerrigan's ass" on my computer. For reasons.
Post edited November 23, 2013 by keeveek
Posted November 23, 2013
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Vestin: Have you seen the one where they go through the entire Heart of the Swarm campaign and take a screenshot every time Kerrigan's ass is on display? Yeah, that actually happened... and they tried to make a point with that.
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keeveek: Well, they did a fine job, to tell you the truth.

Now I have nice folder "Kerrigan's ass" on my computer. For reasons.
Splendid material for... checking one's privilege, I guess ;).
Doesn't work as well in-game, where people actually have stuff to do, so I appreciate their effort all the more.
Post edited November 23, 2013 by Vestin
Posted November 23, 2013
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Kurina: I'll be honest, I have not read this entire thread, as I am afraid I will end up on a very lengthy rant about this topic in general. It is one that has certainly frustrated me as of late.

In regards to the RPS article, I find this all absurd. The developer was blunt about the situation by saying they are not trying to be political about this topic, and to me, that is fine. They are well within their rights to do that. This is their product and their vision, and they are allowed to create it however they see fit. I often feel websites like RPS are on their own holy crusade to shame any developer that does not try to push a progressive view that matches their own, and I am not really sure that is the best way to go about things.

On a more general note, I feel Blizzard has done really well with many of their past female characters, and I have certainly never been offended by them or felt as though I were an unwelcome member of their gaming community. If anything, these RPS articles offend me more than anything Blizzard has put out.

As I have stated before in other threads here, I am all for better female character design, but I feel "journalists" are also going too far with this topic and lost sight of the real message a long time ago. For me personally, I feel there is nothing wrong with sexy and/or feminine female characters, and I am tired of websites telling me how wrong all of this is. As a girl, I prefer that over a generic female design that just looks like the rest of the guys.
It's comments like this that's going to get buried by both sides trying to be right. Most gamers don't care about the look of the character they are playing as. We just want a game that's fun. If we look at a game and there is something we don't like (art, gameplay, etc) we won't buy it.
Posted November 23, 2013
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keeveek: Let's just all listen to this amazing song and get over with :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kd2Cvxrxpfc
I prefer this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhzF2K2b7Xo
Posted November 23, 2013
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htown1980: snip
What response, I'm pretty sure I addressed it all.

The basic position of him/her and their fellow travelers is "Everything is political, you can't escape it!", to which I would disagree, or at the least I would say "Even if games can't be removed from politics, I couldn't care less, because I don't care about politics". As in, I play games for entertainment and that's all, and trying to shove political opinions down other people's throats.

And the main point is, RPS and their ilk never actually "discuss" any issue, they dogmatically state their own position as absolute truth, you can't really "engage" with that. These things might be an issue for some people, but their not an issue for me.

And I'll say again what I said before, it's pure "soft target politics", in any other field or industry the arguments the "sexism" fellow travelers in video games spew would never be allowed, they would need to provide actual evidence for their claims, you know that sexism is such a horrible issue in video games that warrants this kind of obsession. Gamers are mostly a passive lot and the reason they are being hit so harder with all this political propagandizing is that they're a "soft target" for leftie activists, they aren't going to say or do much if you call them misogynist and their hobby is so evil and hateful to women.

It's the same reason politicians would rather blame video games for firearm violence than firearms, pure cowardice and soft targets.
Post edited November 23, 2013 by Crosmando
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)RockPaperSocialjustice is at it again(841 posts)(841 posts)
(841 posts)