Sometimes it's nice to interact with people that have similar interests and problems. But, I definitely agree about not wanting to join. I definitely could join, but I've never found the urge to actually do it.

I find most "smart" people get that way by significantly limiting the things they study and read, making them somewhat less interesting to interact with.

I sort of see religion as the moral glue that keeps us all from robbing, raping, and murdering each other off. While religion and politics HAS caused a lot of death and destruction in this world, I fear a world that has no moral guidance at all even more.

We'd all lose our sense of guilt as nothing and nobody could tell you what was right and what was wrong. There would be no right or wrong! There would just be the here and now and a bunch of animals acting out on personal impulses just like every other animals species with no fear.

I've seen dogs rape and kill other dogs and I'm sure the dog doing the raping and killing had not an ounce of guilt for doing it. It's in its nature to do it. Same thing with cats and all other non-human species. They lack emotion and compassion and a sense of guilt and just do whatever it is in their nature to do. Humans were a lot like this before their was religion as well. Male cavemen would just clonk the female cavewoman over the head and drag her back to his cave and rape her and make her the momma of his child(ren) and he probably didn't feel an ounce of guilt for it.

I sort of think the only true atheists are those who act on their personal impulse without fear of judgment or an ounce of guilt for their actions. Something is keeping them from robbing, raping, and murdering others and that is the fear of God and the guilt that they know would consume them from the inside out from doing those things to others. Therefore I believe that everybody believes in God or has a fear of him. Many try to deny it and act as though they don't because that's the cool thing to do right now. So brave - NOT!

And I can prove this because I don't believe an atheist would follow another man's laws (ie. don't speed, don't rape, don't murder, don't cheat on your spouse,, etc etc etc) if they didn't believe in God and fear the consequences of their actions. Because atheism IS true freedom and allows one to act on their impulses without fear and no constraint. Life is just the here and now for a true atheist and life is meaningless since they believe we're all just going to end up being nothing in the end. A man would not fear raping a woman because he'd not feel guilty about it. He'd know that his victim wouldn't suffer or be able to get back at him upon their deaths. She would just be nothing just as he would be. So there's some peace in that, but no peace in life. Just horror and a complete fear and distrust of each other.

I find it quite evident from the fact that most atheists know more about the Bible than most Christian do. This tells me they fear God and they study the Bible hard to find loopholes to excuse themselves of their behavior in life. Gays for instance generally tend to be atheists I've noticed. They know that the Bible forbids homosexuality and they hate that because they want to be free to be gay and act out of their impulse. So they study the Bible long and hard looking for ways to excuse their personal sin and try to exonerate themselves and their behavior by concocting loopholes and redefining the meanings of the words in the Bible.

But why? Why even read the Bible or argue against Christianity it if you truly have no belief in it or even a fear of God? Why try to attempt to convert others into not believing if you simply have no faith or care? I don't believe in Christians trying to save non-believers anymore than I believe non-believers should be trying to convert people into losing their faith. It's up to each man and woman to believe what they want. I choose to believe in Christ and try to live my life based on the path he showed us as much as I can. I am a sinner and I know that. It's impossible for any human being to be as perfect as he was and I'm sure he knows that. I ask for his forgiveness quite often when I'm alone and feel rotten for things I've said and done in my life and I hope he hears me and feels my pain and offers me his forgiveness for it.

But in a way I'm impressed with atheists and think many of them will repent in the end and do whatever they have to do to save their souls. I can't say the same about many Christians who are only using religion as a mask to do horrible things to others, thinking they will be forgiven by proxy. It's easy to call yourself this or that. But I don't care what a person chooses to call themselves. Actions speak louder than words. Live like a Christian if you're going to be one. Otherwise claim you're an atheist and study the Bible long and hard looking for ways to exonerate yourself from your sins. I'm not going to judge you for it. Not my place. I just see what I see and know what I know. We'll all get what's coming to us in the end.

And if God and Christianity turns out to all be a fairytale, not a single one of us will know any differently or care when we die - we'll all be nonexistent and life was just meaningless from the moment we were born into it and you won't be able to pass it on to all those still living that there's no God just as I won't be able to pass it on that their is if it turns out to be a God and Christianity was right. And even then I doubt the living would even listen or care. Jesus was supposedly born into this life to tell us all about it and death. But not everyone chose to believe him. I sometimes think that God wants there to be confusion. If we all had the answers then there would be no mystery and no sense of wonder in it all.

In 2001 my mother was diagnosed terminally ill. I went through a bout of severe depression and even attempted suicide not wanting to live and be here anymore without her. She was 57 and I was 22 at the time. When I was released from the pysch ward I was allowed to go visit my mother on her death bed at the hospital. She told me to listen to this song and promise her I would "dance". I didn't know what she was talking about at the moment but once she passed and I went home I looked up the song she referenced and I listened to it and nodded my head as I cried that I would do exactly as she wished for me to do. So I chose to not give up on life and to "dance" instead, meaning live my life to the fullest as she had done with hers. Here's that song...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RV-Z1YwaOiw

Since her death I've gotten married and brought two children into this world with my wife. I feel very blessed and I'm living my life the way my mother wanted me to. I'm sad she's not here anymore, but I feel like she's always with me and is witnessing everything from another place and smiling down on me. I have hope I will see her again someday when I'm gone and we can just sit and laugh at how silly and sad and fun it all was while we lived.

I have yet to hear about person who has survived "The Life" - these days so many research's are done, that there is certainly someone where stating that every single thing in life kills ;)

Then again, there are many ways to prepare milk - some more healthy than some others. But whatever, hardly the most dangerous thing in my life all things considered...

--

Also bloodsausages! Suppose i should buy some + lingonjam today.

Called it.


Personally I don't feel the question is all that useful in day-to-day life. Most religion is just an attempt to remove the finality of death anyway.

Vikings were religious, but they had no moral qualms about raping and killing. The crusaders were also religious, but they also had no qualms about murdering and looting. The Inquisition was religious through and through, but they didn't mind causing pain and suffering (and killing, and maiming, and quite a bit more).
It's not religion that prevents us from acting on impulses, it's being part of a community, and following said community's rules. Being part of a religious community does mean following said community's rules, and most religions now do tend to follow society's rules as well.

Will take a look at the rest of your post tomorrow, but do tell me, were the crusaders not religious? Were the vikings atheists? Was the Inquisition agnostic? Or do humans behave as their society allows them to behave, and personal faith be damned?

I guess when you get a rep over 1,000 you can make a thread about anything! It is like seniors who can and will say anything.

I hope that was supposed to be a joke and you forgot a smiley...it doesn't have anything to do with rep, lol

I agree as well, but believe you should expose yourself to as wide a variety as possible. Not necessarily take them all to your bosom, but even from just an anthropological viewpoint it is useful to try to understand where they are coming from.

That's the fallacy of projecting yourself onto others. I do not need a threat of divine punishment in order to behave properly, I have a rather sophisticated system of personal ethics and morals that do the job well. Indeed, better than many religious people I've encountered, as I have compunctions about swindling, lying, stealing, and adultery that they clearly don't share.

As for knowing the Bible better than believers, that's a broad generalisation but often true. In my case it's because I was raised Christian and wanted to understand it, but the more I read of it the more I realised it didn't hold water.

And as for yourself, you are both a poor Christian and an abominable person, if what you wrote is sincere. You freely admit to the vacuum of morals and ethics that resides within you natively, and you shame the god you profess to follow by failing to pay witness to the complexity and grandeur of human existence. Clearly you are a wretched soul, to view the world so blackly and to require such tyrannical divinity merely to function as a decent person.

They give member discounts at Tim Horton's

I enjoyed ThoRn's comments and agree with most of it...very well said. But JMich's reply brought to mind events during the time of World War 2 and the evolving of the Nazis party. People who became part of a community and accepted a different mind-set which was quite often against their original beliefs. Scary !!

Good grief. This is what cartoons think of the history of our species, not anthropology. I truly hope you are not this ignorant and just trolling.

I can assure you that I have no wish to rape, murder or rob anyone, despite being an atheist from the age of 12.

It could be argued that the societal pressure / moral influence / whatever from being around religion xyz in the community has rubbed-off on your own moralities, and thus did have that influence even though you don't accept that religion's tenets directly.

Uh, are you aware that most moral choices are not driven by the fear of post-mortem consequences ?

Or that empathy isn't driven by fear of consequences for oneself ?

Just asking. Rhetorically.

Perhaps in a religiously monolithic community one could posit this. Less so when there are competing products on the shelf (or with guns in the streets, a la The Troubles).

I go with empathy as the reason. It's pretty well documented and most people possess it to some degree.

EDIT: Empathically ninja'd by Telika. Still, nice to hear it the sentiment shared. :)

It's loose.
It match human nature.
Communism,one of the atheism,countries have made terrible gods,like Kim and Mao,after devastated old religions.