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Darvond: So Unity's big update?

Nothing's really changed, but we expect you all to report the metrics anyway.

Now would be a good time to play Entry of the Gladiators.
I think the choice of site for posting that is another sign of the problem.

People really shouldn't be using that site at this point.
Listen, I can't control where Jason is making his posts.
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amok: And in other news, some indie developers have now been dropped from their publishers because they use Unity engine. It is basically too risky for the publishers with the new pricing structure.
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vv221: Do you have a source for that?
That would be the first time I hear of a publishing studio able to make a decision (and apply it) that quickly.
No, unfortunatly. Most of these are under NDA's, and to be honest still in process / discussion. 2 developers are people I know that had word from their publishers, and a third is via a friend. I am not going to be naming anyone. So yes, take it as anecdotal at the moment. Not sure if there will be any developer who will go public with it yet.

edit - keep in mind that these are publishers for small indie games. they off course work different and have different priorities and risks than larger publishers.

edit 2 - I might also add that these games are games under development, so not yet released. the framework would be different and slower for already relased games.

edit 3 - Callum Upton is talking about Seven Ducks Studio in this video getting dropped by his developer because of Unity, though he had not signed the contract yet, they where in the final talks. It is at about 04:45 min in the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhtS566Fe9U
Post edited September 18, 2023 by amok
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clarry: Why bother at all with this number-of-installs bullshit? If they want a slice of the pie, they could just ask for a percentage of the gross revenue, exactly like Unreal does.
Good point, but maybe the CEO doesn't want to trust the publishers/developers telling them the truth about revenue, and rather wants to charge according to something Unity can check. Why doesn't he trust the publishers... possibly because that's what he would do in their boots, lie. Morally bankrupt people believe others are similarly morally bankrupt.

It is a bit like how China has banned Tesla cars from driving near certain buildings and in certain areas in China, showing concerns of Teslas recording everything they see and that video going to USA. Espionage and what have you.

Westerners might find that quite far-fetched and think it is just a lie to hurt Tesla's business in China... but maybe it is simply because that is what China is doing with its electric cars abroad, so they expect Tesla similarly sending all Tesla surveillance data to Biden administration (even though in reality Musk and the Biden administration hate each other).
Post edited September 18, 2023 by timppu
I think the main reason for the number of installations being so important are mpbile devices.

While on PC Unity has a certain relevance, on Android it is quite dominant.

And most games aren't sold on Android, the devs get the money through Ads or by selling ingame items.
Video update with Clownfish TV; They cover a lot of pop-culture, Disney TV comics movies, some games, and the handful of random topics that come up.

https://www.engadget.com/unity-apologizes-and-promises-to-change-its-controversial-game-install-fee-policy-082408455.html
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neumi5694: I think the main reason for the number of installations being so important are mpbile devices.

While on PC Unity has a certain relevance, on Android it is quite dominant.

And most games aren't sold on Android, the devs get the money through Ads or by selling ingame items.
yup another reason to make those pesky devs pay

capitalism is the best and will be the best system ever
Post edited September 18, 2023 by Orkhepaj
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neumi5694: I think the main reason for the number of installations being so important are mpbile devices.

While on PC Unity has a certain relevance, on Android it is quite dominant.

And most games aren't sold on Android, the devs get the money through Ads or by selling ingame items.
Non-sequitur imo. Ad revenue and revenue from IAPs is still revenue. Nothing could be more straightforward than asking for a percentage of that revenue if Unity wants money when devs make money.
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clarry: Why bother at all with this number-of-installs bullshit? If they want a slice of the pie, they could just ask for a percentage of the gross revenue, exactly like Unreal does.
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timppu: Good point, but maybe the CEO doesn't want to trust the publishers/developers telling them the truth about revenue, and rather wants to charge according to something Unity can check. Why doesn't he trust the publishers... possibly because that's what he would do in their boots, lie. Morally bankrupt people believe others are similarly morally bankrupt.

It is a bit like how China has banned Tesla cars from driving near certain buildings and in certain areas in China, showing concerns of Teslas recording everything they see and that video going to USA. Espionage and what have you.

Westerners might find that quite far-fetched and think it is just a lie to hurt Tesla's business in China... but maybe it is simply because that is what China is doing with its electric cars abroad, so they expect Tesla similarly sending all Tesla surveillance data to Biden administration (even though in reality Musk and the Biden administration hate each other).
Yeah I am sure they are spying with those drones which is why they should be banned around military bases and jammed. They probably have enough Reconaissance data now.
You are right the CEO is likely a Sociopath.
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clarry: Non-sequitur imo. Ad revenue and revenue from IAPs is still revenue. Nothing could be more straightforward than asking for a percentage of that revenue if Unity wants money when devs make money.
I don't know how it's calculated, if income by advertising or other additional sources can be masked, if there is a way to trace back by an outsider how that income was generated.

I'm not defending the installation count, I'm just trying to see the reason.

That someone should pay for the tools he uses to make money, goes without saying. Of course changing the TOS in a way Unity did, is completely unacceptable.

I would be looking for something new right now. We also dumped the Oracle JRE, when they started the pricing model per JRE installation.
Post edited September 19, 2023 by neumi5694
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Sarang: You are right the CEO is likely a Sociopath.
Likely? The man commented an act of sexual assault and he's the man who wanted to charge for bullet refills in Battlefield.
Wait, that means they will charge the devs every time we reinstall their games as well? When they mentioned "per new install", does it refer to the first time you install the game, or just whenever you install the game (meaning this also includes reinstalling the game)?
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Lovstrelfra: Wait, that means they will charge the devs every time we reinstall their games as well? When they mentioned "per new install", does it refer to the first time you install the game, or just whenever you install the game (meaning this also includes reinstalling the game)?
We don't know, it's very unclear because the entire idea is harebrained and anti-indie.
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AstralWanderer: Rather than doing things the hard way, why not just try using NTFS compression on the games in question?
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dtgreene: What if I'm not using NTFS? (On Linux, NTFS isn't used much, and I wouldn't trust the driver to handle advanced features properly or even at all.)
As my response was addressed to a Windows user, it will clearly have little relevance for those on other OSes. If you use Linux, then the ZFS and BTRFS filesystems offer similar facilities.
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clarry: You don't realize how outrageously expensive that is? That backblaze article ends with "we think the world needs lower egress fees" and I fully agree...At 0.085/GB, a game that takes a few tens of gigabytes would cost a few dollars to transfer. Now take a game like Wolfenstein: The New Order and assume GOG's cut from the 20 eur asking price is the industry standard 30% or 6 eur. That's already in the "few dollars" range, and I believe that price includes VAT. That's bad even before any kind of discount...
At 44GB, Wolfenstein New Order is currently at the top end in terms of download size - most of the games on GOG are less than 5GB (and many under 1GB). That $0.085/GB for AWS is a starting rate which slides down to $0.03/GB - plus there are cheaper providers (as low as $5,000/PB or $0.005/GB) available.
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HIRO kun: It seems like this drama suddenly ends with Unity's damage control..."We have heard you...Thank you for your honest and critical feedback".
Translation: "Please stop sending mailbombs, dog poop and SWAT teams to our address. We will devise another form of wording that sounds nicer and cuddlier but essentially does the same thing. This will be publicised once we have vested and sold all our remaining stock options. What a bunch of tossers you are."
Post edited September 19, 2023 by AstralWanderer
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Lovstrelfra: Wait, that means they will charge the devs every time we reinstall their games as well? When they mentioned "per new install", does it refer to the first time you install the game, or just whenever you install the game (meaning this also includes reinstalling the game)?
No. That idea was already abandoned or at least announced to be abandoned.
However, if you install the game on two computers, it will count as two, even if you bought it only once.