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General discussionFrontier have decided to make Elite Dangerous online only.(608 posts)(608 posts)
(608 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted November 18, 2014
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ncameron: I'd argue that steam's DRM'd distribution includes the installation phase - so the installation is DRM'd. You can't get a DRM-free installation from steam. Otherwise, I agree that the games themselves can be DRM-free, and in being so you can just copy elsewhere in place of the installation.
Installation procedure on Steam is just parsing the installscript.vdf, running any redistributables and adding any relevant registry entries. And if a game doesn't need any such dependencies (like all DosBox games), then there is no installation to speak of. If there are such dependencies, they are installed on first run, but that can be done without steam just as easily.
Posted November 18, 2014
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JMich: Installation procedure on Steam is just parsing the installscript.vdf
I couldn't for the life of me find a way to launch those outside of Steam ... Script ... Thing :-/ (for the record, those are the ones creating needed registry entries).

I suppose packaging SteamService.exe would do the trick, presuming it'll work without Steam being installed on the system.
Post edited November 18, 2014 by Fenixp
Posted November 18, 2014
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JMich: So no, Steam isn't DRM by itself. It's a DRM'd distribution method that bypasses the installer phase and can deliver both DRM'd and DRM-Free products.
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ncameron: I'd argue that steam's DRM'd distribution includes the installation phase - so the installation is DRM'd. You can't get a DRM-free installation from steam. Otherwise, I agree that the games themselves can be DRM-free, and in being so you can just copy elsewhere in place of the installation.

Distribution of paid-for games is necessarily going to be restricted (unless you use an honour system,) and I don't see that as DRM.
Yes you are right. That's conveniently overlooked in all of the rants above. Steam is DRM.
Posted November 18, 2014
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Atlantico: Yes you are right. That's conveniently overlooked in all of the rants above. Steam is DRM.
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Fenixp: Thing is, when a game is actually DRM-free on Steam, all Steam does is download the files and launch the game - most decently coded games will do the installation on the first run, regardless of Steam (as in creation of registry entries and such.) Waters get a lot more murky for games which actually do requite some installation to be done beforehand - some older games need to already have registry entries present to run, otherwise they ... Well, won't. In that case, while the first run is not necessarily dependent on Steam (you can create the registry entries yourself), you won't get by without doing a lot of work around the installation by hand and in those instances yes, it could be argued that installation is DRMed. Still, files of the game itself aren't.
/\ That's a post I have made above yours I believe. Oh I do like how you don't actually have a single argument backing up what you say :-P Games that I consider DRM-free on Steam, with no ties to Steam that is, start installation off on first launch, if an installation is even necessary.
Post edited November 18, 2014 by Fenixp
Posted November 18, 2014
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Fenixp: Thing is, when a game is actually DRM-free on Steam, all Steam does is download the files and launch the game - most decently coded games will do the installation on the first run, regardless of Steam (as in creation of registry entries and such.) Waters get a lot more murky for games which actually do requite some installation to be done beforehand - some older games need to already have registry entries present to run, otherwise they ... Well, won't. In that case, while the first run is not necessarily dependent on Steam (you can create the registry entries yourself), you won't get by without doing a lot of work around the installation by hand and in those instances yes, it could be argued that installation is DRMed. Still, files of the game itself aren't.
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Fenixp: /\ That's a post I have made above yours I believe. Oh I do like how you don't actually have a single argument backing up what you say :-P Games that I consider DRM-free on Steam, with no ties to Steam that is, start installation off on first launch, if an installation is even necessary.
Again, conveniently ignoring that the Steam client is DRM. Whether you bypass the client later with some games is neither here nor there.
Posted November 18, 2014
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Fenixp: /\ That's a post I have made above yours I believe. Oh I do like how you don't actually have a single argument backing up what you say :-P Games that I consider DRM-free on Steam, with no ties to Steam that is, start installation off on first launch, if an installation is even necessary.
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Atlantico: Again, conveniently ignoring that the Steam client is DRM. Whether you bypass the client later with some games is neither here nor there.
You'll find a few of these around here. Don't worry about them too much.
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Fenixp: Thing is, when a game is actually DRM-free on Steam, all Steam does is download the files and launch the game - most decently coded games will do the installation on the first run, regardless of Steam (as in creation of registry entries and such.) Waters get a lot more murky for games which actually do requite some installation to be done beforehand - some older games need to already have registry entries present to run, otherwise they ... Well, won't. In that case, while the first run is not necessarily dependent on Steam (you can create the registry entries yourself), you won't get by without doing a lot of work around the installation by hand and in those instances yes, it could be argued that installation is DRMed. Still, files of the game itself aren't.
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Fenixp: /\ That's a post I have made above yours I believe. Oh I do like how you don't actually have a single argument backing up what you say :-P Games that I consider DRM-free on Steam, with no ties to Steam that is, start installation off on first launch, if an installation is even necessary.
He doesn't need arguments. Did you ever find out if copying files around with using Steam is respecting the terms of service.
Post edited November 18, 2014 by realkman666
Posted November 18, 2014
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Fenixp: I couldn't for the life of me find a way to launch those outside of Steam ... Script ... Thing :-/ (for the record, those are the ones creating needed registry entries).
Notepad should work. The installscript.vdf file is a text one after all. You could then either use RegEdit to add them or create a .reg file yourself.
Posted November 18, 2014
Atlantico, I think you are tacitly assuming that there is always an authentication step with Steam installations. You need to SHOW that that is the case.
Post edited November 18, 2014 by Kristian
Posted November 18, 2014
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realkman666: He doesn't need arguments. Did you ever find out if copying files around with using Steam is respecting the terms of service.
Without being a lawyer, I'd say it depends on local jurisdiction. Quoting section 2G of SSA
Except as otherwise permitted under this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use), or under applicable law notwithstanding these restrictions, you may not, in whole or in part, copy, photocopy, reproduce, publish, distribute, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code from, modify, disassemble, decompile, create derivative works based on, or remove any proprietary notices or labels from the Software or any software accessed via Steam without the prior consent, in writing, of Valve.
Emphasis mine. If local law allows you to make backups of your files, then you can safely copy them.

Section 2A also says:
To make use of the Software, you must have a Steam Account and you may be required to be running the Steam client and maintaining a connection to the Internet.
A steam account is a requirement, and the Steam client and/or an internet connection may also be requirements, but they may not be. So depending on local laws, and what lawyer you can get, copying the files to another computer doesn't seem to be breaking the SSA.

P.S. Steam Community Moderators also encourage copying files to another computer, though as always, take a moderator's advice with a grain of salt.
Posted November 18, 2014
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Kristian: Atlantico, I think you are tacitly assuming that there is always an authentication step with Steam installations. You need to SHOW that that is the case.
It's not an authentication, it's just having to use Steam.
Posted November 18, 2014
Well got a response back on my ticket which says the following

Hi Philip,

Kickstarter pledges are an investment into a project, with the understanding that elements of the initial pitch may change or be removed as development progresses.

The cancellations and returns policy on our site states that digital products are non-refundable once they are downloaded and played by the customer. As such, we are unable to offer you a refund on this purchase.

I’m sorry that we cannot assist you further in this instance.

Sincerely,



I am so pissed now and feel like i wont be doing any more kickstarters in the future because of this.
Posted November 18, 2014
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aluinie: Well got a response back on my ticket which says the following

Hi Philip,

Kickstarter pledges are an investment into a project, with the understanding that elements of the initial pitch may change or be removed as development progresses.

The cancellations and returns policy on our site states that digital products are non-refundable once they are downloaded and played by the customer. As such, we are unable to offer you a refund on this purchase.

I’m sorry that we cannot assist you further in this instance.

Sincerely,

I am so pissed now and feel like i wont be doing any more kickstarters in the future because of this.
Shitstorm incoming?
Posted November 18, 2014
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aluinie: I am so pissed now and feel like i wont be doing any more kickstarters in the future because of this.
+1 Same here.
Posted November 18, 2014
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Kristian: Atlantico, I think you are tacitly assuming that there is always an authentication step with Steam installations. You need to SHOW that that is the case.
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realkman666: It's not an authentication, it's just having to use Steam.
A particular method of download is not DRM.
Posted November 18, 2014
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realkman666: It's not an authentication, it's just having to use Steam.
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Kristian: A particular method of download is not DRM.
Edit: nevermind, I haven't followed the discussion.
Post edited November 18, 2014 by NovaFlare
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionFrontier have decided to make Elite Dangerous online only.(608 posts)(608 posts)
(608 posts)