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dtgreene: On the other hand, I think a medieval setting with typical gender roles, but where many of the game's major characters (especially if the main character is one of them) violate them, can be quite fun, especially if the author plays with gender in interesting ways. (With that said, don't use a gender/sex change as a joke; either treat it seriously (and talk to at least one actual transgender person about it) or don't include that plot thread at all.)
Because Siege of Dragonspear is so much better than original Baldur's Gate dilogy.</sarcasm>
Post edited June 02, 2018 by LootHunter
Oh, great. An argument about gender stuff.
Better go ahead and just start putting that in all the threads.
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Socratatus: Any woman taking up a sword and trying to beat a male warrior would usually lose unless she used some kind of strength potion or magic
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LootHunter: Actually, I disagree on this particular point, because that would mean that strength will always beat skill. Which is not how it goes both in real life and fiction. The one who is bigger and stronger doesn't always win even in hand to hand combat.

Though I agree that if medieval culture is a basis for society, than gender roles should be like in medieval times. Author can't just say that the world has medieval setting but suddenly women are serving in army among men as regulars.

What do you think of Witcher novels?
Men are not only stronger, but even the smallest man has a greater muscle density and mass weight for weight than women. Men are also faster than women. There`s more, but I`ll leave you with that.

Ergo a warrior will always beat a woman in real combat.

I haven`t read the Witcher novels, but that is HIS fantasy world. From the game it`s not too bad, but I think that Ciri woman was a mistake.The series was good until she popped up with her super powers. She is too much like the Witcher and seems to me just a shoe horn for feminism- again. That said I haven`t completed the whole game, or book so maybe she`ll turn out less of a feminist character.
Post edited June 02, 2018 by Socratatus
http://media0.giphy.com/media/Rhhr8D5mKSX7O/giphy.gif
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LootHunter: Actually, I disagree on this particular point, because that would mean that strength will always beat skill. Which is not how it goes both in real life and fiction. The one who is bigger and stronger doesn't always win even in hand to hand combat.

Though I agree that if medieval culture is a basis for society, than gender roles should be like in medieval times. Author can't just say that the world has medieval setting but suddenly women are serving in army among men as regulars.

What do you think of Witcher novels?
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Socratatus: Men are not only stronger, but even the smallest man has a greater muscle density and mass weight for weight than women. Men are also faster than women. There`s more, but I`ll leave you with that.

Ergo a warrior will always beat a woman in real combat.

I haven`t read the Witcher novels, but that is HIS fantasy world. From the game it`s not too bad, but I think that Ciri woman was a mistake.The series was good until she popped up with her super powers. She is too much like the Witcher and seems to me just a shoe horn for feminism- again. That said I haven`t completed the whole game, or book so maybe she`ll turn out less of a feminist character.
That's not always the case about strength/speed differences between men and women, and even if it were, it isn't the sort of thing that needs to be represented in fantasy settings; in fact, I would say it's better to not include that detail, so as not to repel female players from your game unnecessarily. Remember, when making a game, it's better to appeal to the biggest group you can, and by giving male characters a mechanical advantage over female characters, you're making female gamers (yes, we exist) not want to play the game.

Also, a woman Ciri's age would be easily able to beat a man Geralt's age in combat; Geralt is old enough to be quite frail.

Furthermore, what's so bad about having a feminist character in a game?

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dtgreene: On the other hand, I think a medieval setting with typical gender roles, but where many of the game's major characters (especially if the main character is one of them) violate them, can be quite fun, especially if the author plays with gender in interesting ways. (With that said, don't use a gender/sex change as a joke; either treat it seriously (and talk to at least one actual transgender person about it) or don't include that plot thread at all.)
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LootHunter: Because Siege of Dragonspear is so much better than original Baldur's Gate dilogy.</sarcasm>
Could you please point out where I mentioned that particular game?
Post edited June 03, 2018 by dtgreene
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kohlrak: ....
Do you eat dog, or do you eat dogs... and "dogs" probably have names, which makes them "harder to eat". See "objectification" ;-)

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Socratatus: I haven`t read the Witcher novels, ...
There's the mistake...
Post edited June 03, 2018 by toxicTom
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dtgreene: Anyway, I think my favorite fantasy settings are alien fantasy worlds; that is, those that are most different from the real world. For example, I prefer worlds in which humans don't exist as a race.

If you're going to make the game world unrealistic, why not go all the way?
Because readers need something to relate to? If all the universe is populated with however clever and interestingly thought insect races - your story will fail because people need an anchor which they can explore the world from.
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Socratatus: Ergo a warrior will always beat a woman in real combat.
So there are "warriors" and "women"? Time to un-skew your world view....
Post edited June 03, 2018 by toxicTom
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Socratatus: Men are not only stronger, but even the smallest man has a greater muscle density and mass weight for weight than women. Men are also faster than women. There`s more, but I`ll leave you with that.

Ergo a warrior will always beat a woman in real combat.

I haven`t read the Witcher novels, but that is HIS fantasy world. From the game it`s not too bad, but I think that Ciri woman was a mistake.The series was good until she popped up with her super powers. She is too much like the Witcher and seems to me just a shoe horn for feminism- again. That said I haven`t completed the whole game, or book so maybe she`ll turn out less of a feminist character.
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dtgreene: That's not always the case about strength/speed differences between men and women, and even if it were, it isn't the sort of thing that needs to be represented in fantasy settings; in fact, I would say it's better to not include that detail, so as not to repel female players from your game unnecessarily.
This is your point of view, and fine in your game, but if someone else like I was making a game or a book and wanted it to be a more realistic fantasy, then I would, and I don`t work just to get the maximum amout of people in or it wouldn`t be a realistic fantasy.

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dtgreene: Remember, when making a game, it's better to appeal to the biggest group you can, and by giving male characters a mechanical advantage over female characters, you're making female gamers (yes, we exist) not want to play the game.
If that were true, every game would be the same and they`d be no variety. But that`s not the case because some people have an artistic dream they want realised and a world they want to bring to life. If that puts off women and children, and people who hate fantasy then so be it.
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dtgreene: Also, a woman Ciri's age would be easily able to beat a man Geralt's age in combat; Geralt is old enough to be quite frail.
Nonsense. Geralt has proven quite able to take on the worst of creatures as the game clearly depicts.
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dtgreene: Furthermore, what's so bad about having a feminist character in a game?
A facetious question and one that`s ideologically based. I explained this before, but I`ll try once more and I`ll explain again.

It`s adding 21st century politics into a world and place where feminism does not exist. You are no longer entering a fresh new world of completely different peoples, but just a reskin of today`s world outside our window. It lacks imagination because you`re clearly stuck in the mindset of feminism and if you cannot separate feminism from your otherworld imagination, then you aren`t creative because you can`t imagine.

Further, most people want to escape from ideologies such as feminism in the modern world (whether you like it or not). Most people hate it whenever it appears in a game. Only SJWs and feminists who care nothing for creative freedom or imagination like their ideologies shovelled where they do not belong and do not care if it destroys the story or game.
Post edited June 03, 2018 by Socratatus
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Breja: I thought the point was to recommend the good ones, as ToxicTom was asking.
Actually I was looking for good "classic" "sword and sorcery" stuff in movies - like "classic" "spaceships and laser beams" Scifi movies. And while OneFiercePuppy listed a lot of good movies which are in one way and another "fantasy", my point was more that there is an abundance of good stuff in literature and games for both (sub) genres, but live action movies heavily prefer the lasers over the sword. And my theory is that starship battles are easier and cheaper than dragon battles. Because - organic.

But nevertheless there were some great recommendations. I personally can really recommend Night Watch (but read the books too - there are lots of them and they take the story a lot farther than the two movies...). There were a lot more good recommendations too - like all the Ghibli films or Pirates of the Caribbean.
But "classic fantasy" my favourites would be Conan (the first movie) and LotR (although I have a ton of minor complaints about those). Earth Sea also had its moments. And there's not much more.

Eragon was aweful (despite Jeremy Irons), same for DnD (also Jeremy Irons). Shannara failed miserably....
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dtgreene: Also, a woman Ciri's age would be easily able to beat a man Geralt's age in combat; Geralt is old enough to be quite frail.
Geralt is a superhuman mutant, Ciri is not. Does not compute.
Post edited June 03, 2018 by toxicTom
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dtgreene: Anyway, I think my favorite fantasy settings are alien fantasy worlds; that is, those that are most different from the real world. For example, I prefer worlds in which humans don't exist as a race.

If you're going to make the game world unrealistic, why not go all the way?
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toxicTom: Because readers need something to relate to? If all the universe is populated with however clever and interestingly thought insect races - your story will fail because people need an anchor which they can explore the world from.
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Socratatus: Ergo a warrior will always beat a woman in real combat.
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toxicTom: So there are "warriors" and "women"? Time to un-skew your world view....
I think we all know his view.
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Socratatus: Men are not only stronger, but even the smallest man has a greater muscle density and mass weight for weight than women. Men are also faster than women. There`s more, but I`ll leave you with that.

Ergo a warrior will always beat a woman in real combat.

I haven`t read the Witcher novels, but that is HIS fantasy world. From the game it`s not too bad, but I think that Ciri woman was a mistake.The series was good until she popped up with her super powers. She is too much like the Witcher and seems to me just a shoe horn for feminism- again. That said I haven`t completed the whole game, or book so maybe she`ll turn out less of a feminist character.
That's IMO really bulllshit. The first part objectively is. Men have on average more muscle mass and density - yes. On average. Meaning there are a lot of women out there your will beat an average man is terms of power and speed any time.

And speaking of Ciri, you should really read the books. She has received Witcher training (without the mutations) which already puts her in the top 10 percent of trained warriors in the world. And the rest - (superhuman speed and stuff - her abilities in the game) is explained thoroughly in the novels.

Also Sapkowski's stories are full of strong and independent women - yes. But at least half of them are pretty vile and vain - men are just more crude in their methods to gain power most of the time.
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dtgreene: Also, a woman Ciri's age would be easily able to beat a man Geralt's age in combat; Geralt is old enough to be quite frail.
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toxicTom: Geralt is a superhuman mutant, Ciri is not. Does not compute.
Whether one of them is a superhuman mutant is irrelevant to the point I am making,

Also, there's no particular reason the author couldn't have made Ciri the mutant and not Geralt; it wouldn't be any less realistic that way.
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dtgreene: Whether one of them is a superhuman mutant is irrelevant to the point I am making,

Also, there's no particular reason the author couldn't have made Ciri the mutant and not Geralt; it wouldn't be any less realistic that way.
So you just didn't read the books.

Yes, per Sapkowski Witchers were men. Boys who underwent mutations which only a few of them ever survived could become Witchers. The "inventors" never cared to create a female version of the "Trial of the Grasses", and why would they. Men are on average better fighters thean women. That's simply a fact. Additionally men are a "disposable" resource. One man can impregnate any number of women depending on his stamina. A woman can be pregnant - maybe once year (which is counting high...). And Witchers are infertile....

When Geralt took to Ciri back to Kaer Morhen to train her... yes, some Witchers were not amused, but on the whole they were very accepting. That's tolerance put to real life. And no wonder - they are outcasts themselves, seen as killing machines and "tools", to be discarded and driven away ASAP when the dirty work was done.
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toxicTom: She has received Witcher training (without the mutations)
Actually, that's not entirely true. Witchers at Kaer Morhen didn't subject her to "Trial of Grasses" yes, but they did fed her some mashrooms and potions. In fact Triss had a serious talk about that with Geralt.