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General discussionDo you ever intend to upgrade to Windows 10?(161 posts)(161 posts)
(161 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 26, 2016
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Cavenagh: I tried win10 with Vmware, it was like a desktop smartphone. no thanks. and I don't care about dx12.
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Treasure: Since you tried Win10 on a virtual machine, could you answer my questions on the topic (as I think of doing the same):

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Treasure: -After installation, how much disk space does Windows 10 use for the OS itself only? I recall that Win7 seemed to take up 10-15 Gbs for the OS only, and Linux Mint 7-10 Gbs. I'm asking because I want to know how much space I should allot to the Win10 virtual machine in order for both the freshly installed Win10 to fit in there and for me to have an extra space of 10-15 gbs to install other software and add other files/documents if needed.
-Does Win10 play nicely in a virtual machine? That is, does it restrain itself to the limits of that machine, or is there any possibility the iso will threaten to "break out" of the virtual machine (so to speak) and overwrite the data of the host system? My fear might be irrational here, especially as nothing of the sort has happened with the linux distros I've tested, but as I already said, I'm kind of a risk-averse person...
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Treasure:
I only played with it for an hour or two. but it worked fine. just didn't like the GUI

[edit] found this

http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/8135-vmware-player-install-windows-10-a.html

all the best
Posted February 26, 2016
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vemin: oh you all, Big brother fans seem to fail to get the difference between a service that using you data (online shops, google search, etc) and ENTIRE OS doing this. you can just close webpage and service cant do this anymore. OS cant be stopped this way.
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JMich: So you're saying that you are ok with being profiled, if it's just on specific conditions? And if you can stop said profiling, who cares if they keep a copy of it?

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vemin: (i'm talking about pc, phones are a little different)
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JMich: But Windows 10 is a phone OS as well as a PC OS, so how is that different?

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vemin: + services usually collect your habits related to them, Spydow10 seems to be interested in everything
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JMich: Ah, one could say that anything you do is relevant to how you use the OS, so Windows 10 is only interested in your habits related to your usage of it.
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vemin: ha, dont sure about him but I can easily anwser that. - if that store collects my buying habits during my shopping session - no problem, if it somehow monitors all my activities all the time - even in order to offer what it thinks is for me - than I have a problem with it, you seem to fait to distinguish this 2 cases, like I mentioned earlier
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JMich: I'm sorry, you seem to think Windows 10 is monitoring my activity while I'm not using it. I somehow doubt it knew what I was doing 2 hours ago in my back yard, same way as GOG doesn't know what I'm doing when I'm not using it.

You do realize that the difference can be made as large or as small as one wishes to, right? Especially if you use broad terms like "all the time" or "only when using it".
copy of what?
\\
when you are not using win10 means you are not using your pc(well providing that you dont have other os)
i can use my pc w/o "shop" you mentioned before. but pc w/o Os?
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you still fail to get difference, ok try again!
Posted February 26, 2016
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ncameron: I can limit my exposure to stores. It's very difficult to limit your exposure to the operating system you're using.

I *am* choosing what operating system I'm using. Isn't that what this entire conversation has been about?
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JMich: I'm always curious when people claim they do (or don't do) something due to their principles, and love checking out if that is indeed the case, or if they use it as an excuse. Thus why I ask you about whether you'd use a store that profiles you or not, though you keep dodging the question.

No worries though, my curiosity is satisfied.
The way you write that, you seem to think I'm going against my principles in some way here. I'm not sure why.

You really want to know my opinion on profiling? I thought it would have been pretty self evident, but ok. I don't like it. Big surprise, huh? I prefer that it doesn't happen. However, the world being the way it is, it is extremely difficult to avoid. What I can avoid, I do. I recognise that I can't avoid it entirely. That doesn't mean that I won't avoid what I can.

Now, as for win10 - firstly, there is a degree of difference between a store profiling me where I can choose what I give it, and give it as little information as I possibly can, and an operating system which has inherent access to whatever it might decide it wants (which has nothing to do with whether it does or not, just to head off your next argument.) Secondly, my choice of not using it and going to linux instead is my way of avoiding this little bit of profiling.
Posted February 26, 2016
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Abovet: I wish Microsoft were to release a patch/update that would fix my Star Wars game, or at least an update that would make old games more compatible on Windows 10.
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te_lanus: But that'll introduce "security" problems AKA less sales of newer games :P
I guess a win-win situation is hard to achieve these days.
Posted February 26, 2016
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PookaMustard: snip
This is a good post. +1

Do you agree that more transparency on what exactly the typical contractual permissions are for, and possibly building in default system tools to allow those so inclined to have insight into what their OS is doing at any point in time would probably be in everyone's best interest?

Because fundamentally, much as this all masks behind a technical discussion, the fundamental disconnect seems to me that many people do not trust MS.
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Treasure: snip
Alternative suggestion: go and find someone that already has it installed and take it for a test drive?

Seem less effort to me, particularly since I'm sure there are computer shops interested in selling you brand new Win10 machines...
Post edited February 26, 2016 by Brasas
Posted February 26, 2016
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Cavenagh: I only played with it for an hour or two. but it worked fine. just didn't like the GUI

[edit] found this

http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/8135-vmware-player-install-windows-10-a.html

all the best
Thanks a lot! That guide will certainly be helpful!

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Brasas: Alternative suggestion: go and find someone that already has it installed and take it for a test drive?

Seem less effort to me, particularly since I'm sure there are computer shops interested in selling you brand new Win10 machines...
Well, nobody I know has Win10, they have Win8 at best, and as for electronics stores, the closest one where I could freely try the OS was in, hold for it,...Greece, and in only one of the chains I'm aware of -the other chain had a ridiculous screensaver that couldn't be stopped on all the pcs, so I couldn't see anything there, and that precise chain is the most preminent in Cyprus too. Anyways, I now have quite the experience with virtual machines thanks to my trying linux distros on them, so it turns out that for me personally the VM option is the most convenient.
Posted February 26, 2016
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Treasure: snip
Hope it goes smoothly then. :)

I actually thought Cyprus was a bit better served than that...
Posted February 26, 2016
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Treasure: Well, nobody I know has Win10
Have no fear. I have Windows 10 installed and a lot of free time. We could start a chat and let you know what you want about the system, and then decide whether you like it or not. Just a suggestion.
Posted February 26, 2016
Download Win 10 trial from Microsoft website. Try it with VMware or whatever VM you use.
Posted February 26, 2016
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PookaMustard: snip
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Brasas: This is a good post. +1

Do you agree that more transparency on what exactly the typical contractual permissions are for, and possibly building in default system tools to allow those so inclined to have insight into what their OS is doing at any point in time would probably be in everyone's best interest?

Because fundamentally, much as this all masks behind a technical discussion, the fundamental disconnect seems to me that many people do not trust MS.
What I agree on is that there needs to be more distinction between the product (Windows 10) and the services (OneDrive, Mail, Cortana, etc), and to be made clear that if you're really paranoid, you can only opt in for the product and opt out for the services.

The problem is so much people wandering around without anything to help them stand on the ground, besides a constant MS hatetrain. This in turn hides even the negative points about MS behind a bajillion of unexplained reasons so it's hard to tell whether they are for real or not. So yes, a bit more transparency would be for everyone's benefit, but as it stands now, it seems that people don't look at the EULA or privacy statement carefully. Not that I blame them, these documents are large and all.
Posted February 26, 2016
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Brasas: This is a good post. +1

Do you agree that more transparency on what exactly the typical contractual permissions are for, and possibly building in default system tools to allow those so inclined to have insight into what their OS is doing at any point in time would probably be in everyone's best interest?

Because fundamentally, much as this all masks behind a technical discussion, the fundamental disconnect seems to me that many people do not trust MS.
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PookaMustard: What I agree on is that there needs to be more distinction between the product (Windows 10) and the services (OneDrive, Mail, Cortana, etc), and to be made clear that if you're really paranoid, you can only opt in for the product and opt out for the services.

The problem is so much people wandering around without anything to help them stand on the ground, besides a constant MS hatetrain. This in turn hides even the negative points about MS behind a bajillion of unexplained reasons so it's hard to tell whether they are for real or not. So yes, a bit more transparency would be for everyone's benefit, but as it stands now, it seems that people don't look at the EULA or privacy statement carefully. Not that I blame them, these documents are large and all.
It's just like those licensing agreements whenever you update a computer game or update your computer or Playstation 4 or whatever. People don't want to read through that crap, so the EULA or privacy statement means nadda to them.
Posted February 26, 2016
low rated
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ncameron: Thank you for so beautifully illustrating the sort of behaviour I was describing.

You don't seem to understand what my concerns are, which you have still labeled as illegitimate, even when I didn't even fully outline them in my previous post.

I'll help you out.

MS is collecting information from Win10 machines. I don't think that can possibly be disputed. Are you still with me? Good. The information they attempt to collect will be used for amongst other things profiling people in order to try to advertise to them. I don't think that could possibly be disputed. Right? Still with me? Ok. I object to this. Even if it can be turned off, I object to the attempt in principle, and won't touch an OS which tries this with a 10 foot pole. The fact that MS is doing this makes them objectively untrustworthy in my opinion. I won't trust my most sensitive data to an OS created by a company I consider to be untrustworthy.

There, done. I don't see how you can call that illegitimate. I am not basing any of this on conspiracy theories, I am basing it on known facts. Regardless, I don't give a flying **** whether you approve of my opinion or not, it's not going to change.
I don't give a fuck either about minority's bitching about retarded facts you brought up.

Object and reject all you want, but you'll always be minority in the end.

100+ millions speaks the numbers.

Period.
Post edited February 26, 2016 by zeroxxx
Posted February 26, 2016
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PookaMustard: Have no fear. I have Windows 10 installed and a lot of free time. We could start a chat and let you know what you want about the system, and then decide whether you like it or not. Just a suggestion.
Thanks for offering to help. I'd prefer however to see Win10 for myself and decide whether I'm going to use it in the future or not based on my own impressions, especially as everyone's preferences are different and some people might like what others don't -and I'm also going to use the Greek version of the OS, which will obviously have some differences with the English one (e.g. lack of Cortana in the Greek version). I'll keep in mind that both you and JMich are Win10 users though, so that if I encounter something I can't figure out by myself, I can ask either of you. Anyways, thanks again.

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Cavenagh: Download Win 10 trial from Microsoft website. Try it with VMware or whatever VM you use.
You mean from this link or did you have something else in mind?
Post edited February 26, 2016 by Treasure
Posted February 26, 2016
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PookaMustard: snip
Yup - going on a tangent now.

I don't understand how myopic the folks on Marketing of these corps need to be to not see how relatively easy addressing some of these concerns would be.

Actually, speaking somewhat from experience, it's probably simple - they are focused on their shiny toys, and the next big thing instead of trying to actually do their work in the nitty gritty and in tandem with the legal and technical side folks. Folks that have little clue about how to express themselves in a relatable way and would be helped immensely by the most basic positioned communication.

Ergo EULA and customer service confusion, dissatisfaction, and outright distrust - but a lot of shiny stuff to keep execs entertained.
Posted February 26, 2016
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vemin: copy of what?
Copy of the data they profiled you. A store that has profiled you while you were using it doesn't magically lose said data once you stop using it, and they may contact you every now and again with offers they think you'd like.

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vemin: when you are not using win10 means you are not using your pc(well providing that you dont have other os)
As you said, you can use a different OS, or a different PC. Does that mean windows 10 keep listening to what you do then?

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vemin: i can use my pc w/o "shop" you mentioned before. but pc w/o Os?
Depends on your definition of OS. I have had cases where I needed to use a computer to see if a disk/ram/monitor was working, and the only software run by it was the BIOS itself. So depending on the definition of an OS, yes, it is possible to use a PC w/o one.

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vemin: you still fail to get difference, ok try again!
I blame the current mafia game, I'm moderating, not playing, thus don't have a place to argue ;)
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ncameron: The way you write that, you seem to think I'm going against my principles in some way here. I'm not sure why.
Thank you. I was just wondering if the profiling GOG does went against your principles or not.
Post edited February 26, 2016 by JMich
Pages:
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionDo you ever intend to upgrade to Windows 10?(161 posts)(161 posts)
(161 posts)