"I'm not racist, I have this black/transgender/gay friend."

Trump getting award from leader of black movement?

your welcome ...i think

I was hoping someone would quote that. ;)

Unlike the one who goes "I don't think refugees should be allowed in my country because they don't know our language and won't fit in", right ?

In practice, these arguments would trigger (the first times) a naively honest discussion, naively decontructing it from every angle. But as all the implicits get peeled off, one by one, you end up with the underlying core, "these foreigners, they are not worthy of surviving at the cost of being within my (compatriot's) range of view or at the cost of a fraction of our financial comfort". And, deeper, the reasons why "they aren't" (as opposed to "us"). And this is where a moderator would have to cut the bullshit.

And I'm specifying "the first times", because after a while, after so many repeated times, going down the whole path becomes useless. Everything is (consciously or unconsciously, depending on the degree of denial and superficiality) contained in the original statement, and good faith misconception stopping short from "they are not as worthy of support as us" (like, "oh wait, i would not be saying this about myself if we was a refugee, so i was being silly") turns out extremely rare. People who do not consider "them" as "inferior" usually don't end up defending the "they would not fit" argument in the first place, especially not with all our available information. So, beyond the formal peeling that is required before moderating straightforward racist statements, there is the human level of getting used to recognise these racisms with all their rationalizing wrappings around. The implicits in a statements say a lot already, and are valid grounds for personal antipathies.

And this is when there are even wrappings around. Because yeah, you have the occasional Kingsbradley (we're talking Golden Dawn supporter, here) who's explicit at first contact, proudly clamoring the beliefs that most racists still don't dare to formulate cynically ("i am not racist but these people..."). That said, you're amusingly leaving out the Mexicans-are-rapists "strawman", because, hey, who would ever claim this openly, and who would ever proudly elect someone on that platform, right ?

Thing is, if there was some shaming moderation about coarse expressions of racism, most of these shy rationalizations would be disappearing, as they would not stand scrutiny and discussions. There would always be the arbitrary question of acceptability threshold, but the threshold argument ("hey as no limit is objective, let's set none"), while making sense in more absolute contexts (the infinity of death penalty), is a fallacy when it comes to tame progressive responses such as forum moderation. Just like it doesn't destroy our whole legal system - which is consciously based on arbitrary negociable thresholds, with nihilism as sole alternative. In that sense, claiming that racist propaganda should be allowed in order to not debate borderline cases is a dishonest point solely in favor of racist proaganda.

But, seriously, all of this is moot. My orginal point was precisely that no moderation would/could take place on GOG (it would now, by nature, threaten too many forumgoers and too many precious enemies-of-my-enemies-are-my-friends). And one symptom of it is that the discussion isn't even about defining the threshold. Only about using it as an excuse to justify everything.

We're, on this very forum, in a cultural environment where Donald Trump is considered "a moderate". And that is precisely my point. Antiracist moderation would be devastating in such an environment. And this suffices to explain the terrifyied backlash against the very idea of the idea of the hypothesis of its possibility.

Cool?

Point being?

I don't think Bradley would appreciate you calling him a s strawman.

And you get to decide what the "core thought" is and what other people really mean by what they said. Who appointed you to make that choice? The problem is you think you are right and anyone who disagrees with you is wrong and only your thoughts count.

You think you should get to decide what is at it's core racist and then get them banned. And each time you are taking any idea to its extreme.

Sorry, it makes you just as bad as these you are calling bigots. You are clearly as bigoted as them.

Point being : I'm quite happy to have my position indirectly reinforced by all the Regals, Tautos, Kingsbradleys who oppose it.

Seriously, what a strange coincidence that the most inane trolls of the forum end up fervently licking Trump's boots and soiling themselves at the thought of antiracist policies.

Lord a'mighty. You people are hopeless. I leave for about an hour and it all goes to crap. Forget it, I'm locking this thread.


Dtgreene, you need to learn that other people have opinions that differ from your own, and just because they differ doesn't mean they're wrong. The minute you finally realize this is when you start to overcome your insane egotism.

Telika, you have good points, but you need to understand that the most vocal or the most focused-on portion of a group isn't necessarily the majority unless you can prove otherwise. Fall in this fallacy and you're no better than the stereotypers you claim to hate.

Habanerose, insulting others does not consist of an argument.

Snowkatt, feeding someone you consider a troll solves nothing but to give that troll more material to work with and serves to exacerbate the situation.

RWarehall, you also have good points, but you need to tone it down a bit and express your arguments a bit less angrily. The calmer you can explain something, the more you begin to strengthen your own argument by replacing anger with reason.

I agree here is leader of United States muslim community stating how trump is racist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6LsL-G9Gb0

i dont consider trantran a troll
i consider him an insane egocentric narcissistic whiny manbaby thats divorced from reality whom loves to play the victim
while being just as bad if not worse then the people he routinely complaints about


just saying

People end up showing these core thoughts themselves, when you start digging a bit into these postures. But no, I don't intend to waste my time on this myself anymore. Done it too many, countless times already. Have other, more patient people, less tired by the similar outcomes, play with that.

This I completely agree with.

Not really about Trump supporters, mind you (Trump is extreme on so many levels that being able to stomach him says already too much about his supporters), nor about the "alt right" (which is sort of defined by its extremism), but about the GOG forum itself. Which I judge upon gut feelings that sometimes remind me of what islamophobes feel about islam due to islamists. It's true that GOG forum creeps may be overly vocal and overly visible, and that post votes may be biased by bots and different factors. I am a bit uncertain about all that. Still, armwrestling with myself about these impressions on the global content and population of the GOG forums.

But the comparison with the forum at my arrival, or with other (moderated) forums, is still striking. Remember when people used to praise these boards as opposed to steam's ?

The term troll is nonsense considering the actual meaning is anyone that offends and invokes emotional response.
How is it my responsibility to protect your buttercup feelings?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-3tiNIZB4Q

Agree I feel you showed your core thoughts by how you enjoy raping children