It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
low rated
avatar
dtgreene: I am not shoehorning it into *most* topics; in fact, I probably don't even *look* at most of the topics on the board.
avatar
zeogold: Let me correct myself:
Most topics which YOU participate in, not most of all topics on the forum.
Even then, I don't see this to be the case.

avatar
dtgreene: The way I see it, I will mention it if it's relevant; if it's not, it won't be mentioned.
avatar
zeogold: The way most of us see it, you mention it even when it's irrelevant.
The way most of you see it, it's only irrelevant because you happen not to be in that particular minority, and therefore don't constantly experience this issue.
Post edited November 20, 2016 by dtgreene
avatar
dtgreene: Do you have examples of *all* your claims?
Yes. Am I about to compile them all just to prove a point to you that should be clear as day and simple to understand just from words alone and by the sheer number of people who've expressed that they dislike you? No.
avatar
dtgreene: Edit: For your claim of shoehorning it into most topics, I request links to more than half the topics on the forum (since I started posting) that demonstrate me shoehorning the topic.
That is an utterly ridiculous request and you know it.
Are you seriously incapable of understanding how mild hyperbole works in conversation?
avatar
dtgreene: Even then, I don't see this to be the case.
YOU don't. And that's what we keep telling you is the issue, because most of us DO. And you never listen, no matter how many people tell you this.
Exactly what will it take to get you to actually pay attention?
avatar
dtgreene: The way most of you see it, it's only irrelevant because you happen not to be in that particular minority, and therefore don't constantly experience this issue.
It would be fine if you only did it once in a while. The issue is you do it again and again and again and again to the point that people have automatically come to associate your name with another gender/LGBT derail.
Post edited November 20, 2016 by zeogold
avatar
zeogold: Or maybe they value actual policy and action over personal views.
Sorry zeogold, but that is nonsense. How can racism be a "personal view" for the president of the United States of America? Racism per se is political. It might be considered "personal view" for someone who has completely no influence, but certainly not for the person who should lead the country and has a lot of power when it comes to making laws and whose decisions will influence everybody in the country.
Post edited November 20, 2016 by PaterAlf
low rated
avatar
zeogold: Are you seriously incapable of understanding how mild hyperbole works in conversation?
Yes. but when it's being used against me, I have a right to treat it literally and ask for you to back up the claim. The way I see it, it is a form of lying, and I am, in a sense, calling you out on the lie.
avatar
PaterAlf: Sorry zeogold, but that is nonsense. How can racism be a "personal view" for the president of the United states of America?
If you take a look at the history of a good deal of our presidents, you'd be surprised.
Edit: Let me point out that I'm by no means defending Trump. I think he's possibly the suckiest option we could have ever chosen. The point I was making to dtgreene is that people were able to look past that and focus more on his policies, what he was ACTUALLY promising to do, rather than his personal biases.
Post edited November 20, 2016 by zeogold
Kind of amusing that the new community manager has actually managed to make things more divided around here without doing anything. Sometimes this place is like a zoo if the monkeys were all given machine guns.

Not that it'd be better if they actually did something, of course. No one can agree on what actually needs doing, or whether there's even a problem in need of fixing in the first place. It probably wouldn't hurt to have a TET-esque presence hanging around to deescalate situations when and if necessary, though. Too bad GOG probably has the new blood babysitting Reddit and various other places in addition to this place, eating up any free time that could be used actually keeping up with forumthings. At least, I seem to remember stuff like that in the job description. Sounded like a mental breakdown in the making. Hope the new blue is at least hanging in there (saving up for the therapist that will likely be needed years down the road).

avatar
zeogold: As I said before, basic schoolyard logic: Use what's most effective.
That's why I carried around a crowbar back in high school. King of the debate club! Slash sole surviving member!
avatar
zeogold: Are you seriously incapable of understanding how mild hyperbole works in conversation?
avatar
dtgreene: Yes.
I see. Very well, I'll try to refrain from using it. Allow me to make a correction, then:
Many of your posts tend to shoehorn gender/LGBT topics for no apparent reason.
avatar
227: Too bad GOG probably has the new blood babysitting Reddit and various other places in addition to this place, eating up any free time that could be used actually keeping up with forumthings.
Considering how many more followers Twitter/Reddit has than the forum, I wouldn't be surprised. It's technically a smarter financial move.
avatar
zeogold: As I said before, basic schoolyard logic: Use what's most effective.
avatar
227: That's why I carried around a crowbar back in high school. King of the debate club! Slash sole surviving member!
"The Devil and Daniel Webster" comes to mind, for some reason.
Post edited November 20, 2016 by zeogold
low rated
avatar
RWarehall: I see you as an extremist who sees anyone who votes for Trump or dared consider voting for Trump as completely racist and xenophobic. I get it. It's remeniscent of a bygone era. Frustrated people banded together and cast blame on other races and religions and started a world war. But why are you blaming every Trump supporter? They didn't start World War II.
First of all, you have no idea who started ww2. And it is an extremely interesting question. You should plunge a bit into history, and, more specifically, into the discourses of the extreme-right nationalists before ww2, before the word "nazi" became this consensual comic book notion of the extreme baddie everyone agrees against. When "nazism" was a cool trendy thing throughout europe, with its so respectable admirers everywhere ("oh come on, it's not like they will invade other countries, oh come on, it's not like they will kill the jews dead"). It was a collective trend (not "nazism" as we know it in retrospect, but its nationalist ethnicist components with its brand of "conservative revolution") that was driving Franco, Metaxas, Hitler, Mussolini and others as the "common sense" of that time, in front of horrified progressives witnessing its evolution. It was not about "killing everybody" (actually, much later, as genocides were ongoing, nazi supporters at various degrees were still in denial of what was going on, a very common process that -by he way- you can also witness nowadays about refugee camps conditions, which we also try to not know about). The point is that, if you checked the ordinary discourses and debates of that era, you'd realise how close they are to the ordinary values (and relative diversity) of today's radical right and worldwide nationalisms. One difference between us is that when you hear "nazi", you see some cyber-hitler at the end of a FPS. When I hear "nazi", I see the ordinary moron who, in the 30s, considered that this Hitler guy was not all that bad, and he was funnily exaggerating at times but deep down was making some good points so why not. And this eternal moron has a very, very familiar voice. He's what national populists keep tapping on, forever, through the ages, with the scale of consequences that an era permits. In other words, the alt right would be electing Hitler without any hesitation. It only seems absurd to you because of this retrospective look you have on this character and ww2 history, which makes him so remote and alien. Study the actual popular discourses in the medias of that time, and this remoteness will vanish. We may not have a Hitler. We will always have the kind of ordinary people who brought him to power, and will always go for the next best thing. And they will always sound less bloodthirsty than Hitler, because they already were. They are still as nauseating as they were, though, because the unchanging value of their discourses always was.

And these are things that educated people tend to be horrified by. When these thrills get recognisable, these same old populisms, these same old anti-intellectualisms, these same old ethnicisms, same old racisms, same old nationalisms, same dismissal of human rights, same golden age fantasies, a whole array of alarm bells ring for decent people. The politicians who ride on such feelings, and encourage these worldviews, are outside the range of acceptable politicians (the range of acceptable politicians that we would ote for or against). And the voters who manage to support them despite of it (or, quite often, because of it) are simply creeps. There are disqualifying evils, in political visions. Racist platforms are an exemple. Those who have no issue with racism deserve contempt. Those who have issues with racism would be incapable of supporting a Trump. In our 21st century, there is no excuse anymore.

Because one other thing that you fail to notice, is that a Trump isn't a moderate (even though a Cruz might manage to be worse). It is not a matter of disagreeing with conservative candidates. The point is, moderate standards have been left behind : we are living times where racism and xenophobia have been so much banalized again that extreme-right platforms (such as Le Pen in France) are reaching "normality". They have hardly changed, beyond the surface, from the discourses that were keeping them at the margins a few decades ago, when the nationalist collapses of the 20th century were still vivid. A contextual change (the rise of expansionist islamist dictatorships, the social failures of neoliberalism, the explosion of autonomous media bubbles that start reiterating -as "rebels"- the discourses of 1930s states in opposition to today's democraties) explains this shift, but it should not fool you into accepting these discourses as "moderates", like a boiling frog would still consider its water lukewarm. Those who are anchored in the long history of political ideas, those who still remember the insensitive nationalist discourses (so close to "normality") of the 30s beyond the "foaming nazi" cliché (so conveniently far from everyone), have a sense of where a middle ground would be located, around which legitimate disagreements would take place. Those without this awareness will always shift their idea of "center" along the current trends. Which is the only way to not measure which extremes have been reached with the election -and the support- of a Trump.

What I am saying is that the trend may continue ad infinitam. Each new crazed extreme-right bigot elected (as a formal representant to the "conservative" identity) will be, by defintion, "not that bad after all" and "not as extreme as the opponents say". Each new pierced floor after floor will become a new standard : the Bush jr. era seemed an unthinkable aberration of stupidity, whose faults the world is still paying in blood, and now Bush jr. will be remembered as an enlightened scholar in comparison with Trump. And when conservatives will elect a cucumber -imagination fails me for anything more caricatural than Trump-, the same discourses will justify it ("hey it's not as extreme as you say"). Discourses that are absurd to those with more stable and honest standards.

So no, your whole "come on, stop considering Trump and his supporters as extremists" would only work if we were not talking about a Trump-like candidate. You would be right if people were reacting like that to, say, a mere Kasich. But we are not here. What functionned, what won an election, are Trump levels of discourses and manipulation. And it is very justified to be objectively appalled by what it says about society, and about the permanence of human pettiness and stupidity throughout the centuries.

One Trump (who, thankfully, doesn't seem to be on the expansionist branch of ultraconservatism) would not be sufficient for a world war. But Trumps and Putins and Erdogans and al-Assads are popping up everywhere, like the Francos and Mussolinis of the 20th century. And that is a trend to be really, really worried about.
avatar
zeogold: snip
Don't bother. I've tried several times to extend my hand (without obeying) and the result is perfectly summarized in here:
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/forum_etiquette_discussion_and_welcome_to_a_new_cm/post292

The more you give some people, the more they demand.
With dtgreene in particular, the biggest problem isn't the gender dysphoria, but the refusal to grow up.
It's like arguing with a child that hasn't yet learned, that the world doesn't bend to its will and that respect and tolerance aren't one-way roads.
Post edited November 20, 2016 by Klumpen0815
Thread locked as per zeogold's request.