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Xelran: I actually didn't see the edit until now. I didn't know that cleric can actually be a stinking cloud bot replacement. Would he still be able to heal somewhat decent? If Yes, could you make that into a merc build pretty please?
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InEffect: Full replacement - no. There is still haste, glitterdust and other good things you kinda want. He's a serviceable pick for a small party, though.
Thank You!
InEffect, thank you for your work, I appreciate it a lot. I'm trying a build that is a variation of your "What about dragons" build, but with Abyssal bloodline and just want to know what do you think about it. Maybe I've made some mistakes, will be glad to hear any advice.

Difficulty: Challenging (or, in case of steamrolling, Hard)

Race: Tiefling (unspecified)
Abyssal Sorcerer 20
Roles: Summoner/Controller/Shapeshifter

STR: 16
DEX: 10
CON: 10
INT: 12
WIS: 10
CHA: 18 (and up to max)

1: SF: Conjuration && Augment Summoning (bloodline feat)
3: Spell Specialization
5: GSF: Conjuration
7: Weapon Focus: Claw && Power attack (bloodline feat)
9: Outflank
11: Dazzling Display
13: Shatter defences && Bull rush (bloodline feat)
15: Intimidating Prowess
17: Superior summons
19: Heighten && Great Fortitude (bloodline feat)

The plan is to add some Grease to the battlefield, throw a glitterdust or two, with stinking clouds and cloudkills. (Mostly AOE CCs that ignore spell resistance). Then to have some Dragonkind + Transformation + Sense Vitals later. And for the defense rely on Displacement / Mirror Image / Greater Invis (maybe would be enough for Hard difficulty). I'm planning to use her with Valerie (your build), Meleenzy and Jaethal (yours), so Valerie and Linzy will be Dazzling users (thugs). Shatter defenses kinda might make sense in a party with a lot of Dazzling, but I'm not happy that Dazzling Display here is not very useful because it can be activated with Claws only, and there are 7 rounds per rest or so of Claws, I believe, so it's here mostly as a prerequisite for Shatter Defenses. And Heighten comes very late, and there is no place for Quicken / Extend. Maybe it makes sense to drop Dazzling + Weapon Focus + Shatter defences + Intimidating Prowess altogether?
I've never played past Chapter 1, so have no idea about how frequently Metamagic Rods occur and whether I would be able to really properly compensate the lack of Metamagic feats with Rods. Abyssal Sorc has a passive for +6 str, that's the synergy I'd like to capitalize on (but without giving up DC checks), but I'm not sure that I did it in a proper way.
Post edited June 25, 2019 by skchrko28
Hey InEffect, many thanks for all the great builds and insight.
I am kinda in the mid-game right now, and I want to respec Amiri to a better build.
I'm thinking of a str-based (she is my general, so I wanna keep her strength focused) DPS two-handed (whichever weapon type that's most common) with cleave and that also double as CC using dazzling display with Cornugan Smash. Possibility a freebooter (or anything else that make sense)

Not sure if it's feasible, do you think you can conjure something interesting?
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pakgog: Hey InEffect, many thanks for all the great builds and insight.
I am kinda in the mid-game right now, and I want to respec Amiri to a better build.
I'm thinking of a str-based (she is my general, so I wanna keep her strength focused) DPS two-handed (whichever weapon type that's most common) with cleave and that also double as CC using dazzling display with Cornugan Smash. Possibility a freebooter (or anything else that make sense)

Not sure if it's feasible, do you think you can conjure something interesting?
first of all, cornugon smash is a trap feat. You need to hit twice with it to shatter. And power attack is hot garbage too as you pay up to 30% of dps for it(and that's using greater cleave. Actual DPS loss if even greater).
As to decent 2h build Booter 10/2HF7/Inq3 would work alright. With menacing you can get power attack, intimidating, shatter, dreadful. Alternatively, you can do Booter 6/Mad Dog 2/Sacred12 and have a pet(and it's marginally closer to the core concept).
Actual good non-lawful 2h is something like F1/Sorc5/DD4/EK10 with vanquisher.
Post edited June 25, 2019 by InEffect
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pakgog: Hey InEffect, many thanks for all the great builds and insight.
I am kinda in the mid-game right now, and I want to respec Amiri to a better build.
I'm thinking of a str-based (she is my general, so I wanna keep her strength focused) DPS two-handed (whichever weapon type that's most common) with cleave and that also double as CC using dazzling display with Cornugan Smash. Possibility a freebooter (or anything else that make sense)

Not sure if it's feasible, do you think you can conjure something interesting?
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InEffect: first of all, cornugon smash is a trap feat. You need to hit twice with it to shatter. And power attack is hot garbage too as you pay up to 30% of dps for it(and that's using greater cleave. Actual DPS loss if even greater).
As to decent 2h build Booter 10/2HF7/Inq3 would work alright. With menacing you can get power attack, intimidating, shatter, dreadful. Alternatively, you can do Booter 6/Mad Dog 2/Sacred12 and have a pet(and it's marginally closer to the core concept).
Actual good non-lawful 2h is something like F1/Sorc5/DD4/EK10 with vanquisher.
I am mainly looking for something that doesn't involve 10x buff to be viable, already have a couple guys in the party that requires buff and resting is quite tedious. That's why i was thinking some kind of booter build that's relatively low maintenance. Would you elaborate on the booter/fighter/inq build? Many thanks!
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pakgog: I am mainly looking for something that doesn't involve 10x buff to be viable, already have a couple guys in the party that requires buff and resting is quite tedious. That's why i was thinking some kind of booter build that's relatively low maintenance. Would you elaborate on the booter/fighter/inq build? Many thanks!
For something like unfair buffs are a must anyways, so it's not like you have much of a choice on the matter.
As to your straight fighter You go menacing for Power attack/intimidating/shatter/dreadful, add inq3 for seize the moment and fighter 3 for overhand chop. Feats are mostly whatever - you will have too many of those anyways, although cleaving finish is nice and so are persuasion-boosting feats. whether to finish with 4 more levels of fighter or Vivisectionist 4 is up for debate. AC will be garbage, because it always is without substantial amount of buffs, but if she sits in a 2nd row it won't be much off a deal. Greater cleave is nice for rounds when you use your move avtion for booter stuff, so that's not a bad idea.
I thought overhead chop only work for a move-attack (or charge-attack), wouldnt it be better to take paladin instead. Will have decent charisma for this build anyway, and smite evil is very nice. In fact I'm thinking getting team feat for saving throw with solo tactician, will have phenomenal saves to tank casters. add a couple thug level for frighten and evasion as well as sneak attack
What do you think?
Post edited June 26, 2019 by pakgog
MC(if he's LG) can get cha saves from any cleric with bestow grace and between items and buffs they are not all that important.
As to paladin - it's nice. When it works that is. So for about half the enemies paladins are just bad fighters.
What really matters is damage and control. Everything else can be worked around.
Post edited June 26, 2019 by InEffect
This is regarding the Level 20 guide in the Ineffect Guide V2

Quoted from the Post:

2. Skill check abuse. Now that's where the meat is at. if you encounter some check that MC can do - go to options, turn off shared skill-check exp and grab all that exp for yourself. Your companions will catch up to your level if they ever leave your party for a short time and all of them will be pumped to your level once you reach the house at the end.

a) is there any way to get your companion to leave your party to force them their XP to update? Just resting while in the castle doesn't seem to force the XP check

b) Is the only time XP will equalize near the end game or are there other times party members will "leave" and XP will update.

Unrelated:

Is there a shield bash paladin that is half decent or are slayer and ranger Shield Bash (SB) builds far superior because of Sneak Attack damage (slayer) and the removal of Dex in 2H fighting styles (Ranger) far superior.

Thanks!
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hamysho: is there any way to get your companion to leave your party to force them their XP to update? Just resting while in the castle doesn't seem to force the XP check
Is the only time XP will equalize near the end game or are there other times party members will "leave" and XP will update.
No. Some of them leave as a part of their quests, but most of them will have to wait till the house. Ones that leave at one point or another are:
Ocatvia and Reggie - during last parts of their quest
Tristian - after vordakai.
Maybe Amiri during her quest line, but I'm not so sure about that one.

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hamysho: Is there a shield bash paladin that is half decent or are slayer and ranger Shield Bash (SB) builds far superior because of Sneak Attack damage (slayer) and the removal of Dex in 2H fighting styles (Ranger) far superior.
Paladin just doesn't have the feats for shield bashing. At least not unless you are willing to sacrifice everything for it, which is not a great idea. Paladin is either a 2h or an archer at his core as he just doesn't have the AC. Monk/pal can be on the frontline, but there is an elephant in the room called magus, as both saint and scion do that job better. And there are not that many evil enemies in the game. Still, monkadin is serviceable.
Post edited June 27, 2019 by InEffect
Do you happen to have a copy of the Hospitalier build you had previously that was editted into the "Damaging Bard" build?

Was going back to bookmark all the builds I was using in my last playthrough since I've been taking a break from the game and I noticed it was missing.
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SCPantera: Do you happen to have a copy of the Hospitalier build you had previously that was editted into the "Damaging Bard" build?

Was going back to bookmark all the builds I was using in my last playthrough since I've been taking a break from the game and I noticed it was missing.
yeah. Hospitalier went the way of dodo as it was easier to scrap it than to try and fix it into viability. I skimmed through my notes and can't find it there either, which is weird.
Hello,

in your Tristian build, you write that "Can be done as a conjuration+Summoning to be overall better at everything, but maybe less lore-friendly."

I'm currently at level 7 in my first play through on Challenging (though with respec enabled). I might want to increase the difficulty to Hard, and that means I'll be more willing to use some slightly less lore-friendly builds (such as respeccing Amiri to a Mad Dog from level 1).

As for Tristian - what changes would you do with the build to make him focus more on conjuration and summoning? Any other things than choosing the Summon Monster spells and Spell focus Conjuration? (And Spell specialization on the highest Summon Monster spell)?
drop elemental foci, grab coj focus(no need for greater) augment and superior summoning. done. keep evo foci for blade barrier and archon aura.
Post edited June 30, 2019 by InEffect
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dejarik: As for Tristian - what changes would you do with the build to make him focus more on conjuration and summoning? Any other things than choosing the Summon Monster spells and Spell focus Conjuration? (And Spell specialization on the highest Summon Monster spell)?
If you're already open to the idea of respecing, why not switch Tristian from Ecclesitheurge to Herald Caller?

Ecclesitheurge: No armor, can prepare Domain spells like regular spells, gets 1 free spell/day through Holy Symbol.

Herald Caller: Light Armor, only one Domain, can spontaneously* cast Summon spells, gets both of the good Summoning Feats free without taking Spell Focus: Conjuration.

The end result is a toss-up between the two free build-specific feats and light armor vs a set of Domain spells.


*It should be noted that spontaneously casting Summon spells is not that great in Pathfinder. It will always make you summon the highest single summon available which means it'll never benefit from the Numerous Heralds feat.