W101 is an absolute riot once you get used to it.
Deus Ex HR is easily the best console version, and maybe even edging out the PC version as it doesn't come with terrible porting bugs and the gamepad integration is excellent.

Also, don't forget to keep an eye on "X" if you're into RPGs.

Yeah, lessons learned from past Nintendo consoles :-p

I find it a little odd that there hasn't been any announcement of a new Metroid, Zelda, F-Zero or proper new Zelda game. But then, there is certainly enough upcoming stuff to keep going - Mario Kart 8, Super Smash Bros, X, and as you say Bayonetta 2 and Watch Dogs.

You should know by now that Nintendo remains frustratingly tight lipped about mainline Zelda games until the last minute. Also the reason for no F-Zero is most likely through market perception that hovercraft racers don't sell, just look at what happened to the developer of Wipeout recently.

Also they're probably very slowly and cautiously planning the path ahead for Metroid after the flack they got over Other M.

I don't see how. If it sold tons better on Steam with DRM and yet CDP plans to release The Witcher 3 DRM-free, this means that CDP does care about the subject of DRM.

Since you are a Mac user, I see it as similar as hoping to see more Mac games.

Windows games sell like hotcakes, so there is no reason to release any Mac games, right? After all, Mac gamers are in a severe minority compared to Windows gamers (which in turn are in a minority compared to XBox360 gamers, which in turn are in a minority to Android gamers, which in turn are in a minority to non-gamers... and so it goes). So isn't it similarly silly for you to expect to see more Mac games?

WAKE UP, THERE IS NOT GOING TO BE A MAC GAMING REVOLUTION!!! :) (with the same condescending tone as you in your original message)

"But that doesn't mean it isn't profitable to offer Mac games on top of Windows games!". Well, the same argument works for offering DRM-free versions, on top of DRM versions. Not for all publishers or developers, but some, especially considering that making a Mac version of a game is much more work than creating a DRM-free version of a Windows game that you are going to make anyway,.

GOG offers DRM-free games because it is one of their major selling points (much more so than flat pricing, I believe). Without it, what reason would there be to get a game from GOG instead of e.g. Steam? Those few old games that are not yet in Steam?

Anyway, rather than GOG trying to come up with their own DRM scheme, I see it much more probable that they might decide to offer Steam keys at some point on top of the DRM-free games, or even in some cases sell Steam keys only (for selected games). That is, the HumbleBundle.com way.

Never say never, maybe years from now they see that as the only way to continue as a store, if everything else didn't go as they had hoped. Expanding to Steam keys could give them extra revenue at least in the short term, but in long term promoting their competitor can make their own service irrelevant, that has increasingly happened already to e.g. GamersGate, GreenManGaming and even HumbleStore. I presume they know that, and that is why they have so far stayed away from offering also Steam keys, and tried to be one of the few Steam-free stores.

Kudos to them for that, nice to see at least someone giving the monopoly a fight. Hey, you should know that as a Mac user, right? Unless you felt it would be a good idea for Apple to start selling Windows PCs.

No problem. I agree with you that GOG will do whatever it needs to do to keep growing. I just think a fair number of regulars around here are in for a rude awakening when they get thrown under the bus in the name of progress. I know it makes them angry to hear talk like that but I sincerely think that's the reality of the future here eventually. I honestly believe it is inevitable unless GOG decides at some point to be content with hitting a ceiling on revenues because they hold fast to no DRM. This is what the faithful are banking on and buying into even at a time when they see GOG backpedalling on a so-called "core value." This "core value" has actually been stripped from an ad banner. It seems bizarre to me that people would believe anything this company promises at this time particularly without even getting into whether changes of mind were justified or not. Future changes of mind can always be justified too. Human beings excel at justifying all manner of behavior.

How can anyone view the frequently linked and highly embarrassing videos in the regional pricing thread and take the word of someone in marketing here seriously about anything currently? Of course things are subject to change. How can that not be evident to people? I don't get it.

I love this line by Bob Dylan: "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows."

I never really believed that there was a DRMfree revolution going on, more like a longlasting struggle between DRM and DRMfree. So I probably wasn't duped but still bought from GOG because I liked their approach.

Now it has become a bit more like the more usual approach from the other companies, but I don't see how this means that Steam or DRM has won. There still isn't any DRM on the games from here.

That is unless GOG discovers that regional pricing for multiplayer games means that you must include some DRM.

Let's just see what happens.

It would be nice if we could try to stay on-topic. Mac games, my computer, etc. are not relevant to a discussion about DRM, etc.

I will respond to your comments about Steam keys though. That would violate a so-called "core value" wouldn't it? That would be selling games with DRM on GOG basically. Maybe they will though. Who knows? If the majority of customers are fine with it, which my guess is that they would be because quite a few of them are Steam customers too. So then it is just a matter of price. Other than the major seasonal sales, Steam never has a lot on sale on any particular day which opens the door to places like GOG, HB or whomever, to offer discounts on other days and make sales.

Why wouldn't GOG do that if there is money to be made and most of their customers liked it? I guess they would but... so much for "core values" which is the point I was making in the first place.

And once you have just a little DRM, it isn't such a stretch to anticipate just a little more DRM, etc. This is kind of like what is presently happening with regional pricing. Initially, we are looking at just three titles but if you peruse the huge thread just looking for TET's comments you will note those three are not all that is planned... more will be following AND what happens with the existing classics catalog is now also up in the air. That information is from comments by him which you can find in that thread fairly early on I think, maybe within the first 20 pages or so. I base that page count on default forum settings btw.

Whether or not you are correct in your assumption, I really don't like your condescending tone. What exactly is it you hope to achieve with this thread?

"Core values"? They are a business, and a business has no values, core or not. Just selling points. Honestly? Steam keys would be a selling point for me - because Steam supplies Linux versions of games that GOG does not. If that was how GOG was to introduce Linux support in fact (indirectly via Steam keys), I wouldn't be surprised.

As for DRM, I suspect in one way or another there *will* be DRM on (at least new) titles being sold directly by GOG within 18 months. Dunno how that'll apply to the back catalogue, if it will, but then there's a lot of "wait and see" about all this.

That's not strictly true. Every company attaches a certain financial value to reputation, and part of building a positive reputation is establishing values. Stuff like this is even quantified in iFRS financial reporting, classified under "goodwill".

I don't mind paying a recalibrated VAT according to my country... with two obvious condition:

they remove US market VAT share of the price first THEN inject regional one instead
they dont give bullshit such as 1$ = 1€ as many stores and firms use to do to europeans (last time I checked currency converter and financial news, the change rate wasn't 1 for 1)

so if i pay "starting price in $" - US VAT + My region VAT = raw unconverted $ price, i'll be fine with it

oh, and btw about AAA games not coming drm free, think about witcher 2 at it's release (on pc not consoles), think obviously witcher 3.... they are not aaa game then ? ok fine
then watch the past history of few recent years and look the raw copy sales in number of a game released DRM less among a sea of DRMised sharks (first occurence i recall is around 2005-2006 with sin of solar empire)

steam would be ok except for three major issues:
many solo non multiplayer games cannot run in offline mode
the steam client is really not compliant with developper guidelines of user account/system security layers for the Windows platform
intrusive and forced communautaristic behavior

i'm an old dirty cunt, i like to be able to enjoy many great games that are part of my gamer legacy without having to get back from the attic and old machine because they wont run on my current computer, nor without having pain in my arse about CD's, CD checks, CD copy protection junk that usuaally shoot down a decent system (i dropped playing neverwinter nights 2 only 2 weeks after release and playing it because of the mess it did to my freshly installed comp... only started back playing it at gog release)

I dont care about most AAA games because:
many are dull and an insult to my gamer experience and old age
most of those i could like are also available on console (though new wave of game system are pain in the ass)
by the time i got time to play them, they will be platinum/budget reedited and after buying them discount, it will be easy to force them drm free in a way or the other
Many good games (indies and nearly AAA or big ones) are released nowadays drm free

so i don care if you dont see the revolution out there, cause i do
gog started it, the rest is left to us
as long as i refuse/restrict access to my game shelve and computer to drm shit, i'm the only captain on my ship and no one will decide what i should play and how
yeah, as EA got labelled worst company two years in a row, soon a third one :)

Being a Mac gamer, you are very much in a similar situation yourself, at least if you hope to see more Mac games in the future. So do you feel you need to be woken up from your dream of wishing to see more Mac games?

Or maybe it isn't about that at all, but you just voting with your wallet and preferring to buy Mac versions of games. You aren't then really different from someone else preferring to buy DRM-free versions of games. So I don't see what your point is in trying to warn the poor bastards that maybe in the future they can't buy DRM-free games anymore. Well, maybe you can't buy Mac games in the future either, if that matters to you.

Yes, starting to sell Steam keys would be against the idea of offering only DRM-free games, I didn't refute that. After all, many people have also held "GOG" (or rather, CDPR) accountable for releasing games on XBone, due to DRM.

I think GOG sells DRM-free games because they believe it to be a selling point for them. And I reward them for it by buying games from their store, similarly like I presume you reward them for releasing Mac versions of games.

If they sometime decide otherwise, I will be disappointed, and probably end up buying most of my games from e.g. Steam instead (unless GOG sells Steam keys cheaper than other Steam-key stores). Or maybe at that point I have already migrated to somewhere else (some fancy future Android gaming devices?), or even lost interest to gaming at least temporarily?


As it happens, already back in 2011 (when I joined GOG), I think I said that I would actually be fine with a model where new (AAA) titles would at first appear with DRM on GOG, but GOG has made a solemn promise that all such games will be stripped out of their DRM after some time (e.g. one year after release), or money back. I would be completely fine with a system like that, if I really could believe in the promise.

So I don't necessarily require DRM-free right now, but I want to have it in the future for archival purposes, ie. so that I can rest assured my games will stay functional in a longer term as well, irrespective of what happens to the publisher or the store from where I bought it. Well ok, there would still be the possibility that something happens during that waiting period... if I was in doubt, then maybe I would just wait it out before shelling out the money, until the game really is DRM-free.

I'm sorry but after quite a while and quite a bit of condescension from some of the Anti-DRM camp here I guess I lost my temper a bit in making some otherwise valid points. You're right. I didn't need to be so caustic. The tone of that certainly isn't intended towards everyone but hopefully most people would be aware of that. It is probably worth noting also that it could have been worded a hell of a lot more harshly and I expect some people would be aware of that as well.

There has been for some time now a certain tone on the forums at times where it comes off like this is the Church of GOG and with some fervor too. Those who are not church members at not treated with too much kindness either. Take a look at the many Steam vs GOG threads for one example. As an "agnostic" if you will, I've become pretty fed up with this and I guess it shows.

For anyone it doesn't apply to, I'm sorry.

What does any thread hope to accomplish? Some sort of discussion about the topic at hand and we are having that even if you don't wish to contribute to it yourself.

So if I got you right, you had some old grudges from some old DRM or Steam discussions (towards those GOG forum members who don't like either), and now was your chance to get back at them? :)

That sounds bad. Sounds about the same as someone who likes to use also Windows, going to Mac and Apple forums to teach the Apple church members how wrong they are with preferring Apple products.

Yes, I do find it overly ironic that a Mac user tries to teach "anti-DRM people" how wrong they are in their ways, and how they should just learn to accept DRM because that is allegedly what the majority does. Well, you must learn to accept Microsoft Windows then, too. Succumb to the majority! :)