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SLP2000: But the question is if moving installer files is legitimate. With GOG you are entitled to do everything you just said, but I'm not really sure, if bypassing GG client is legitimate.
Okay, lets take it this way... I run the downloader to download the game, install it, all the normal / 'legal' / whatever way. Then I remove the temporary files and the downloader. The game is installed in C:\lala.

Now, if I copy-paste the game in C:\wawa, and then remove C:\lala, the game would also work, because the game doesn't have DRM.

Then I can .ZIP / .RAR the entire folder, and unzip / unrar it when I want to play. DRM-free, don't you think? :)
I think DRM has gone completely off the rails these last couple of years. It's really getting ridiculous. I mean, fuck man, when Diablo 3 comes out it will most probably be cracked withing the hour of release is not sooner! What the fuck is the friggin' point of having to always be online in a single player game if it's gonna be cracked within the first 24 hours anyways?? Truly, Blizzard hasn't thought this one properly through. They really haven't thought about the long-term ramifications for what that means for their game. Sure, doing it this way means that only legit users have access to their fine multi-player, but what about 10 years from now? What then? I can't imagine the resale value will be that high or that many people will buy it, because, let's be honest here, this IS blizzard we're talking about and they have no fucking concept whatsoever of their games' worth, at all. Hell, in my local game shop downtown I say Diablo 2 and Warcraft 3 for, like, 43 US Dollars! Each! That's insane!! I mean, what the hell, man?? And that's just Blizzard. Luckily for them, they make games that has a very good single-player portion, so their games will still have some resale value in 10 years, but what about all the other games?? What about Battlefield 3?? Imagine someone who buys that game in 10 years for the sole purpose of some sweet ol' nostalgic LAN gaming with his buddies. He won't be able to do it, because of the game's DRM. All of his buddies need to buy the game as well, for them to be able to play it. And I know for a FACT that that is NOT going to happen! Hell, do the gaming companies have any fucking clue, as to how much it is going to cost if a group of people need to buy every single game, to be able to play lan?? I mean, when my friends and I join up for some lan gaming now and then, we play about 20 different games, give or take! And my friends are dirt-fucking cheap, they won't invest in ONE single game, let alone TWENTY!
So, yeah, with DRM the gaming companies are definitely shooting themselves in the foot with this one. Not only do they severely limit the resale value of a game with intrusive DRM, the multi-player portion of the game literally also has to be, like a 9-out-of-10-score PERFECT if they want to get groups of friends to EACH invest 30-40 bucks just to play one single game a couple of times a year.
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kavazovangel: snip
Right, except you are allowed to do this. But it's still not the same as extracting files from the client.

It's like buying the game and then downloading it from the net, becuase it doesn't work or you want no-cd version. Technically, you are entitled to play the game, and if it's really big deal if you use the copy from the dvd or from the net? But it is a big difference.
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kavazovangel: snip
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SLP2000: Right, except you are allowed to do this. But it's still not the same as extracting files from the client.

It's like buying the game and then downloading it from the net, becuase it doesn't work or you want no-cd version. Technically, you are entitled to play the game, and if it's really big deal if you use the copy from the dvd or from the net? But it is a big difference.
You don't have to extract files from the GG client. It downloads them for you, sure, but once they're on the system you can do whatever you want with them via your own personal use, except editing the code and such.
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GameRager: snip
But you seem to forget that when creating account on GG you agreed to some conditions. If those conditions exclude* backuping installer files, then you are breaking the rules and then there's a question if you are entitled to use that copy of the game.

I know it's easy, and it's really not a big deal, but the thing that interest me is if we still have legitimate copy of the game.

* I have no idea if there's anything about it in their TOS

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GameRager: but once they're on the system you can do whatever you want with them via your own personal use
but it's up to the TOS.
Post edited December 21, 2011 by SLP2000
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GameRager: snip
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SLP2000: But you seem to forget that when creating account on GG you agreed to some conditions. If those conditions exclude* backuping installer files, then you are breaking the rules and then there's a question if you are entitled to use that copy of the game.

I know it's easy, and it's really not a big deal, but the thing that interest me is if we still have legitimate copy of the game.
Um, there's a box when you're done installing that allows you to keep installer files. I'm guessing that is a sort of go ahead to keep them if one wants.

Also most eulas allow you to make a backup.
GOG has no DRM. The setup files can be copied to another computer, will install without an Internet connection, and can be run an unlimited amount of times. Saying that having to download them from GOG counts as DRM is bollocks; that's like saying walking to a store to get a physical disc is DRM...
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SLP2000: Right, except you are allowed to do this. But it's still not the same as extracting files from the client.

It's like buying the game and then downloading it from the net, becuase it doesn't work or you want no-cd version. Technically, you are entitled to play the game, and if it's really big deal if you use the copy from the dvd or from the net? But it is a big difference.
It is the same thing. The 'installer' is just a program that unpacks stuff that is placed in .dat or in .cab files, just like any other achiving format. If you know the structure of the game you're installing (which files go in which folders), you don't even need to run the installer program. Might as well forget about running it or whatever, and just open the .dat / .cab (you can double click .cab files to open them with Windows Explorer) files with WinRAR and manually place the files in the required folders.

The installer is just there to make it easier for the end-users, nothing more.
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GameRager: Um, there's a box when you're done installing that allows you to keep installer files. I'm guessing that is a sort of go ahead to keep them if one wants.
In this case, if they let you keep installer files, then I have no question, and this is legitimate.
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RealWeaponX: GOG has no DRM. The setup files can be copied to another computer, will install without an Internet connection, and can be run an unlimited amount of times. Saying that having to download them from GOG counts as DRM is bollocks; that's like saying walking to a store to get a physical disc is DRM...
I wasn't saying that, no one was. I was using that supposition to make a point about GG files not being DRM really.
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GameRager: I wasn't suggesting Gog is drm, just saying that if one considers GG to be drm if you have to move the installer files on your pc then Gog could possibly be considered DRM as well under that definition.
You don't have to move the installer files on GOG. You download them once, through the downloader or directly from the site, whichever you prefer, and then you can move them, leave them, or do whatever the hell you want with them afterwards. As long as you still have the files, as they were saved to your machine, you can always use them to install the game later without even being online.

On GG however, this is not the case. You have to download the files with the mandatory downloader, and the files that are saved to your machine cannot be used to install the game without connecting to an authentication server.

In both cases, the defining characteristic is the nature of the files that are saved to your machine. The downloader thing is just annoying, but I wouldn't characterize it as DRM.
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GameRager: Um, there's a box when you're done installing that allows you to keep installer files. I'm guessing that is a sort of go ahead to keep them if one wants.
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SLP2000: In this case, if they let you keep installer files, then I have no question, and this is legitimate.
I think OP thinks that because you have to download an install starter app for each game(you run once to decrypt the installer files onto your system and install the game, and it leaves the install files behind if you want them left behind.) to download and decrypt the installer files(When with Gog you can download the installer files directly) that it's DRM. IMO it isn't though.
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GameRager: I wasn't suggesting Gog is drm, just saying that if one considers GG to be drm if you have to move the installer files on your pc then Gog could possibly be considered DRM as well under that definition.
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Wishbone: You don't have to move the installer files on GOG. You download them once, through the downloader or directly from the site, whichever you prefer, and then you can move them, leave them, or do whatever the hell you want with them afterwards. As long as you still have the files, as they were saved to your machine, you can always use them to install the game later without even being online.

On GG however, this is not the case. You have to download the files with the mandatory downloader, and the files that are saved to your machine cannot be used to install the game without connecting to an authentication server.

In both cases, the defining characteristic is the nature of the files that are saved to your machine. The downloader thing is just annoying, but I wouldn't characterize it as DRM.
I never said you had to move the gog installers, just that if having to download installers on GG is drm then downloading installers from Gog is drm(it isn't). It was more a hypothetical(correct term?)
Post edited December 21, 2011 by GameRager
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RealWeaponX: GOG has no DRM. The setup files can be copied to another computer, will install without an Internet connection, and can be run an unlimited amount of times. Saying that having to download them from GOG counts as DRM is bollocks; that's like saying walking to a store to get a physical disc is DRM...
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GameRager: I wasn't saying that, no one was. I was using that supposition to make a point about GG files not being DRM really.
From what I gather, GG requires you to install via them, though, which is DRM. Although you can then copy the installed program, it still needlessly inconveniences the user. It's less intrusive than the recently popular "always online" options, but still requires you to confirm ownership in order to "properly" install.
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GameRager: I wasn't saying that, no one was. I was using that supposition to make a point about GG files not being DRM really.
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RealWeaponX: From what I gather, GG requires you to install via them, though, which is DRM. Although you can then copy the installed program, it still needlessly inconveniences the user. It's less intrusive than the recently popular "always online" options, but still requires you to confirm ownership in order to "properly" install.
If you can copy the files and save them as a backup why is it any worse than copying and saving installers?
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caligero3000:
The thing is that, ten years from now you will probably have Diablo 4 and 5 and Battlefield 4 and 5 and they will suggest you with millions of dollars worth of advertisements, that you don't want to play the old games anymore, you want the new ones, buy the new ones.

Anyway, to make things short, most of the "nonsenses" of DRM can make a lot of sense if you stop thinking that DRM is just for piracy (if ever). Just a hint, since Blizzard will make money from every item of Diablo 3 sold with real currency, doesn't it make sense now that they want you to be connected and as close to that shop as possible all the time?
Post edited December 21, 2011 by MichaelPalin