Bah etc etc - another game on the losing side....;o(

Least you have actually won a game ;(

What you mean back down to one again? How would you know that there is only one left or am I misunderstanding you? Also consider what your implying here for a second: I pretty much instant claimed that I killed Vitek.. if I really had performed another kill, where I killed the mafia, wouldn't that be an even better thing to claim? Why are you putting it out there that I might not be one shot and thats the reason for the two kills? Trust me, if I had actually retained my vig ability I would have claimed the kill. I have however nothing to do with these kills... and must agree with Baz here. Since we have a confirmed multiple mafia scenery, of whom the members are clearly trying to kill the others off, then you can conclude nothing based upon the fact that nmillar revealed a scum in regards of his towniness, though it might tell you about the truth of his power claim (unless mafia knows each other from the beginning..I doubt that a little though, can't see how it would be balanced).

I would be kinda interested to see what theories you draw from that idea, from what your writing it sound like you're saying that you don't have much data in regards of Zchinque unless I am part of complex plot? Now sure how those two things add together, so am I correct to assume that your just listing stuff without any clear separation between them. But yea, a re-read with this new knowledge is surely needed.

Also this two kills in one night might be the reason why there wasn't a mafia kill last.. delayed kill or something? Also I am considering if the mafia might only have 2 members each.. adding up to 6 people. Then with the current dead-toll that means we only have one mafia left, which if my idea is correct, means that they will know how to kill town in order to win. Could that be the setup? Although being able to kill an entire faction in one night, seems a bit extreme.. wait I am an idiot. We wouldn't have only one faction left at this point. We would have one shattered hand and 2 of that other mafia (name of which I currently can't recall). That leaves 3 mafia's assuming they are only two.

So assuming I am correct, that would be 5 towns left and 1+2 mafias left.

(Funny thing, if all claims are true, then that would mean that NFY, Zchinque and SirPrimalform are the remaining ones - But I highly doubt it to be the case :P).

Well that was my suggestion for a setup, any comments? Did I miss something that breaks that idea?

Baron: sorry, let me explain myself properly.

- By "one left" I mean one faction, AND one member. Pure speculation, but it was something that occured to me in the heat of the moment.
- Yes I doubt your claim. Not very much, but I do doubt it.
- nmillar has switched to leaning town in my estimation, but I take your (and Bazilisek's) point.

Sorry, I wasn't clear - those items were unrelated. I still can't get a read on Zchinque. And I thought we could disregard the paragraphing argument, unless you were in some sort of plot with Orry (unlikely, I think). However, I changed my mind and I need to go back and read that again.

Also note, the Gambiani family are NOT MENTIONED in the opening flavour... I'm not sure we can conclude there are three factions (although that might explain the double kill...) Ohh possibilities..! :S

I can clear this up right now, since TwilightBard is now dead. The first letter of each sentence in this post spells out TB IS RB (TwilightBard is Role Blocker). I had been under the impression he was town aligned due to not having a criminal record, but I guess this is because he was never caught.

Okay figured it was what you meant. As for this:

Great point! Damn and looking back I also notice that I've taken what the others said for granted considering that:

Then came the great turf war between Idyllias criminal organisations:The Rezurrection Movement, The Black Vipers, The Shattered hand, and Los Meutra

So actually we don't have flavor talking about 3 factions of possible scum. We have 4 factions, though of course one of them lost their leader, but nothing is said about the faction he lead disappearing... So damn - Nah it can't be that we have 4 mafias. Seems way to unlikely...if it was the case how would town even win I wonder. And the only faction who plays are part in the beginning we had a mention since is the shattered hand. And apparently now a fifth mafia faction is present. Hmm the theories in my head is getting convoluted.

Out of interest, did you get another file? (Again, I'm not asking for the detail.)

So, after the evening/night shenanigins, we finally have something confirmed about this damn multiple mafia set-up: that there's one more Shattered Hand out there. Since the logic for the factions has departed from the flavour, it's possible there are more (thinking about the numbers I think it's unlikely, personally, but speculating doesn't really get us anywhere at this point).

Damnaaaaaaation..! Where did he get to...

5 Mafias? That seems little unlikely. I'd be more likely to suspect that the number of Mafias mentioned in the flavor are just there as red herrings.

Ahoy there, people, and apologies for my massive absence. My exams are now over and a new uni semester is about to boot, so should have plenty of time to pay attention now :D

A lot of things have happened in this game during my exam period, and one thing of interest. I know that I'm going to listen closely to nmillar, as he most certainly has a role that can be of use (He pinged my role name correctly, though flavourwise I do not know anything about charges of possession (My role pm never mentioned this), and I am not going to confirm whether or not I am vanilla).
He also pinged Orryyrro as scum, but couldn't properly ping TB - likely because TB was Gambiani or whatever they are, which seems to be a newcoming mafia. So we have confirmed Italian mafia and brutal Shattered Hand (Which we assume to have at least one living member left. We have not received confirmation that the Gambiani's are out for the count, but Robbeasy strongly hints at it, could be a postdeath ploy to throw us off guard though)

So, with these happenings and what people have been saying, I'm not sure where to put Zchinque or NFY, same goes for SirPrimalform due to his somewhat silence. Baz and Red have grown suspecious for two posts I will outline in a bit. Then there's nmillar who I find leaning strongly towards town. Jef I'm currently giving the benefit of the doubt, but the whole lover ordeal is very strange.

Anyhow, an interesting post by Baz:

Try reading that again. Consider the fact that Baz claimed town doctor on day 1. Consider the fact that he learnt he was paranoid. Consider the fact that Baz himself is one of the people who are very adamant about the usage of "they" and "town" and did join a bit into the discussion when Rod was being targeted for it by Robb.
Then why is this post so interesting? This post actually makes appear to be distancing himself from the role of town doctor. Considering we DO have multiple mafia, a mafia jailkeeper is not that unnatural. I'm not saying any of this condemns Baz, I'm just saying this is highly interesting.

Now, for Red_Baron... He has said his vigilantism is a one-shot ability. He's either lying or he ha multiple abilities. Just read this line:

Here he obviously confirms he made another night action, despite having used his "shot-one vigilante ability".

Other than that, I don't really feel I have much else to add.

Jesus, Damnation, if you want to dig that deep, could you at least do it properly? Yeah, I did "join a bit into the discussion", because Robbeasy openly asked me to do so (#91). It was in my post #92, which I'll quote here in full:

"It's a nice catch, that's for sure. I approve of the method, and you might actually be on to something, but all in all, it's a fairly minor thing, isn't it?"

Does that read like being "very adamant" to you? Certainly not to me.

There's also post 87 where you state it's something that peeves you. But don't you think you're overreacting just a little bit? Like I said, it was merely something I found interesting, nothing else. And you seem to have missed the point - the point I was trying to make is that you're distancing yourself from town doctor (despite having claimed it) in post 1023.

No, that post is talking about something else entirely. Read it, please.
I have not missed the point, and yes, I might be overreacting there, because that argument you're making is taking the post entirely out of context. For that, read e.g. #985. I was tired of repeating the same thing over and over again (to Robbeasy and TwilightBard, remember), so I tried to find a formulation they would accept. They never did, and now we know why.

I did.

Let's take a step back and look at what we know, what we can most likely assume, and what we can infer from those:

Things we know:
-The game started with 15 players
-We have at least two mafias with at least two members each
-In addition, we have had a lyncher and a tratior (the mechanics concerning the latter unknown)

Some assumptions:

Assumption 1: The game setup is fairly balanced. (I think we have to assume this, as otherwise playing is pointless.)
a: If the game is fairly balanced, all factions have a fair shot at winning.
b: If all factions have a fair shot at winning, the mafia factions should be more or less equal in power
b2: The most important aspect of determining the power of a mafia faction is the number of members of that faction.
c: If the mafia factions are more or less equal in power, they (are very likely to) have the same number of members.

Conclusion 1: If the game is fairly balanced, the mafia factions (are very likely to) have the same number of members.

Assumption 2: There are more than two mafia factions in the game.
a: If there are more than two mafia factions in the game, there are at least three mafia factions in the game.
b: If there are three mafia factions in the game, there are at least six mafioso in the game.
c: If there are six mafioso in the game, there was at most seven pure townies at the start of the game (given the lyncher and the traitor)
d: If there was seven pure townies at the start of the game, the town made up less than half the player base at the start of the game.
e: If the town made up less than half the player base at the start of the game, it was possible for the town to lynch correctly every single day and still lose.
f: If it is possible for the town to lynch correctly every single day and still lose, the game is not fairly balanced.

Conclusion 2: There are not more than two mafia factions in the game.

Assumption 3: There are more than two mafioso in each mafia faction.
See assumption 2.

Conclusion 3: There are not more than two mafioso in each mafia faction.

Conclusion 4: If the setup is fairly balanced, there is (very likely to be) two mafia factions with two mafia members each.

More to come, just wanted to post this first so that you can marvel at my brilliance. Or laugh at my stupidity. One or the other.

Since the cat is already out of your bag, how certain are you that Damnation is vanilla? Is it spelled out that he has no abilities, or is it something you have inferred from flavour or similar?

This could be an important piece in my puzzle.