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Coelocanth: This entire site and the philosophy behind it is based on that assumption.
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Fenixp: Ummm... No, this entire site is based on the assumption that optimising and selling old games is a good idea :D

Not going to argue this further, but read point #3 in GOG's 'About Us' link.
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Coelocanth: ...
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Fenixp: Sorry, that was a general statement, not aimed ad you - should have written it ABOVE the quote :-) As a matter of fact, I will go there and edit it so it is clear

Ah, okay. :)
Post edited June 09, 2010 by Coelocanth
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chautemoc: We're looking in different places. Try and [url=http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3179364]here, for starters.

I'm aware of that. And I'm still far from considering piracy being misused as a scapegoat or as an excuse. The 2 links you provided only prove that for me.
Crytek with a reputation for delivering the most graphically advanced games, considering graphically "dated" console releases? Mike Capps clearly stating how piracy has changed their business model... Just scapegoating? Nah.
There's a reason why companies like Rockstar release for consoles first and for PC a year later. It's called piracy. And as much as I hate to admit it, from a company standpoint it makes perfectly sense.
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chautemoc: Aside from that, anyone who craps on a company for trying something progressive and trying to incentivize pirates versus what Ubisoft is doing or what EA used to do...I dunno. You're just being an arse.

Why, thank you.
I'm an CRPG addict. Still, I haven't finished DA:O because of the mess and the headaches they given me with their DLC DRM crap. I still haven't and won't buy the Awakening expansion. I loved Mass Effect 2 but still haven't entered that Cerberus-key for getting my free DLCs because of it. For my conclusion, look below.
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chautemoc: Are you kidding? It's StarCraft. There is simply no room for question. I'm not a Blizzard fanboy or anything, it's just...it will sell huge and that's all there is to it. I'll give you a 0.01% chance it doesn't. :P

Of course it will sell huge. And that IS the point. People keep complaining about Steam, but on the other hand they don't have a problem with the more intrusive WoW DRM or giving a damn about the new battle.net and the DRM measures that certainly will be attached to it - it's mind boggling hilarious.
It all depends on the benefits to penalties.
A common misconception is that DRM is supposed to 100% stop piracy. It isn't. You will never be able to 100% stop piracy. You will never be able to stop the dedicated and competent pirates. But you can discourage the ones who actually manage to download viruses when they want to crack something. And stuff like Starforce stopped a lot of the competent ones too, since the only way to beat it (at the time) involved actual effort.
The caveat to this being Ubi-DRM, which, for a time, did a wonderful job of stopping 0-Day piracy. Then the warez groups figured out how to just get the files from Ubi anyway, and it kind of fell apart :p
A model like Steam works so well because it provides so many benefits. You have social networking (Steam Community), ease of use (Digital Distribution (if you live in one of the countries they like :p)), Achievements (face it, people care about those), and in-game chat/web browsing.
But even moreso, it associates itself with a lot of VERY popular MP-oriented games. Which actually does wonders to curb piracy. Would you want to risk your TF2 and/or L4D2 account just to pirate Eversion (or another combo)?
As for the costs: Honestly, having an internet connection is not a big deal for the vast majority of the target demographic. It sucks if you are in the group that doesn't have internet, but you are screwed by pretty much everything these days. And while it is true that Steam can lower your performance, so can most of the crap people leave running in the background anyway.
GoG is another insanely successful model. It has a very light DRM model (that is marketed as "100% DRM-Free " :p) and combines it with lots of benefits (nice goodies) and something of an honor-system. Look at this forum: Pretty much everyone will freak out if they see a hint of piracy, but I think we all can suspect that a good many of them pirate music and the like. But when you are protecting the rights and are on an honor-system, you tend to behave MUCH better.
People see a locked door, they get curious as to what is behind it. People see an open door that they know they shouldn't go through, and they are a lot less likely to barge in.
As for why people have no problems with MMO-esque DRMs: Because they get the benefits. Yeah, you need to authenticate. But you would already be online, and it gives you access to a lot of goodies.
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darthcobley: well i thought that is good news would you rather have securom and limited activations?
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chautemoc: Nobody limits activations anymore...every use of SecuROM I've seen recently either revokes automatically, doesn't have limited activations to begin with, or there's a revoke tool available. Even so, I could easily crack it if there were limited activations. If something's tied to Steam, I'm fucked, and other digital distributors are fucked too. Also SecuROM is no big deal for most people, doesn't cause problems and was largely hyperbolic silliness. :P

Yeah, exactly. Now looking back it seems so long ago, when games like mass effect 1 were released, all that complaining about securom and limited activations was about nothing at all. You can have several releases of securom installed by several games in your computer and not notice them at all. You can remove them with free tools too. Limited activations were gone months after the game was released. This is something to be vocal about, not that securom silliness.
To the Impulse Reactor naysayers, Reactor is not out yet. Yes, their other innovations haven't made much of anything, but their Reactor just may. It's going to be available after their new game which will debut it, arrives. There's not much expectations around their Impulse offers, but there is about their games. Elemental War Of Magic will showcase what Reactor can do.
Post edited June 09, 2010 by drmlessgames
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Gundato: but I think we all can suspect that a good many of them pirate music and the like.

I just wanted to quote this part. Is it just me or is this topic full of everyone that is not me is a thief?
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Gundato: but I think we all can suspect that a good many of them pirate music and the like.
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iamthief: I just wanted to quote this part. Is it just me or is this topic full of everyone that is not me is a thief?

And, if you had actually read the post rather than getting defensive, you would have seen that I explain why this is so (the inherent "honor system" of the GoG approach).
I have purchased hundreds of titles on Steam for extremely cheap (like 10 games for the price of 1), and have yet to have problems with Steam DRM. Steam's DRM isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be. While it isn't DRM free, it doesn't force you to be online to play (unless the game's DRM makes you, which has nothing to do with Steam), it doesn't limit your installs (unless the game's DRM makes you, which has nothing to do with Steam), nor does it limit your downloads/amounts of machines to play the games on (unless the game's DRM makes you, which has nothing to do with Steam).
If you think about it, buying this on the PC is far better than on the Xbox 360/PS3 because then the content is stuck to the console AND an account. I've had many XBLA games taken from me because my system died, and the games aren't offered anymore or that I cannot play them offline. You can call in and get the content reverified to your new console, but that's something that shouldn't have to be done.
For the price I got 90% of the games off of steam, I think it's worth it. Not to mention that some games are even playable without Steam, even though you bought them from the service. Still, if a game is offered DRM free I choose that option...but that option doesn't show up very often unless it's on GOG or is an indie game.
Post edited June 09, 2010 by Ashkc88
I imagine the real reason that Bethesda when with steam is that it will now be much easier to deal with DLC. I personally refused to buy DLC through GFWL because GFWL was so incompetent. So I ended up buying FO3 twice: the normal and then the Game Of the Year edition for the DLC. I would rather have the current FO3 securom disk check, but at least now I will hopefully be able to buy the DLC as it comes out. At this time I don't know if I will be buying FO:NV immediately or wait or not at all - I am concerned about the mess that obsidian seems to be.
To those defenders of securom activation limits. WTF. There have been at least a couple of times within recent memory where I was having securom issues - I try to go to link to securom site or the publisher site to tell us the answers and the page isn't found. I found the corrections and was able to finally get the problems resolve; but this does seem to be a general feature of securom where they change or delete the location of the info regularly. Its like a shell game. Also, the Steam version of the first 2 Borderlands DLC still have activation limits on them. I have had more frustrating experiences associated with securom than any other DRM including starforce.
To those defenders of Impulse; I hope you are right and Impulse Reactor not the unfocused mess that other Impulse ideas tend to be. Brad always tells a good story and then forgets about "it" 6 months later.
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Siannah: Of course it will sell huge. And that IS the point. People keep complaining about Steam, but on the other hand they don't have a problem with the more intrusive WoW DRM or giving a damn about the new battle.net and the DRM measures that certainly will be attached to it - it's mind boggling hilarious.

Eh, we'll just have to agree to disagree on other stuff.
Regarding Battle.net, I've been every bit as concerned about that as Steam.
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drmlessgames: To the Impulse Reactor naysayers, Reactor is not out yet. Yes, their other innovations haven't made much of anything, but their Reactor just may. It's going to be available after their new game which will debut it, arrives. There's not much expectations around their Impulse offers, but there is about their games. Elemental War Of Magic will showcase what Reactor can do.

Reactor has been out quite awhile actually, just not in full form. There are a couple of games which use the "full" version now I believe though I can't recall them at the moment...
Good god Elemental looks great.
Post edited June 09, 2010 by chautemoc
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sethsez: As a fan of Steam, I like this news.

what he said.
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Siannah: Of course it will sell huge. And that IS the point. People keep complaining about Steam, but on the other hand they don't have a problem with the more intrusive WoW DRM

what WoW DRM. Since when did Blizzard implemented DRM for WoW?
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Siannah: Of course it will sell huge. And that IS the point. People keep complaining about Steam, but on the other hand they don't have a problem with the more intrusive WoW DRM
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Tserge: what WoW DRM. Since when did Blizzard implemented DRM for WoW?

yes i am wondering this my self.
Unless they mean all your other Blizzard games being tied to your wow account.
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Gundato: The caveat to this being Ubi-DRM, which, for a time, did a wonderful job of stopping 0-Day piracy. Then the warez groups figured out how to just get the files from Ubi anyway, and it kind of fell apart :p

If I remember correctly I read on torrent freak it took an hour after release to be cracked...
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Gundato: The caveat to this being Ubi-DRM, which, for a time, did a wonderful job of stopping 0-Day piracy. Then the warez groups figured out how to just get the files from Ubi anyway, and it kind of fell apart :p
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Gimgak: If I remember correctly I read on torrent freak it took an hour after release to be cracked...

Sort of.
Within a few hours (I am not sure what the actual timeline was, but you'll see why it isn't relevant) the DRM itself was cracked.
But Ubi had another trick up their sleeve. You had to download stuff from their servers. So you might be able to play without a connection, but you only had the first few levels/missions on your disc.
But, since all the warez groups are arrogant bastards, they felt the need to scream how they succeeded. And the pirates suffered.
One method that was discovered shortly thereafter was to actually distribute all the files with the scene releases. The problem with this was that the Releases were dependent upon how fast the groups could beat the game (and since certain groups felt like DoS'ing Ubi, it didn't speed things up).
The newer cracks actually still require the pirate to be connected to the internet, and actually just fakes an authentication with Ubi to get the files. Which is hilarious in that it means most of the whiners are still doing what they said they wouldn't, and Ubi is forced to waste bandwidth on pirates.
That being said, this approach did prevent "proper" 0-Day piracy of most of the titles with Ubi-DRM (I think SC: Conviction was the first game where this worked on 0-Day). Because even though the game was cracked, it was still unplayable, which means that 0-Day piracy just didn't work for them.
After playing Alpha Protocol, the real bad news about Fallout: New Vegas is that Obsidian is the developer. What is the excuse for AP problems? And what will the excuse be after Fallout: New Vegas gets released?
As far as Steamworks is concerned, buy the game and then download the cracked version. There are plenty of places to find cracked Steam games. And unless you want to play multiplayer games, it won't bother gameplay in the least.
But, like what's been mentioned earlier. The way Steamworks is growing is a concern. Valve has shown that they will let any restrictions, no matter how pathetic, work through Steamworks. And with only Steam selling DD versions of Steamworks games; the price structure for DD sales of those games, has gotten even more warped than before.