The mask falls, your first line says it all. You are better than me. How about my statements, in my interventions? Do I look down on others..? Prove it or leave it. I wrote a few slang words and "freaks of culture", that I specifically quoted for it not being seen as offensive, but the factual result of the most of today's transgender people undergoing hormones treatment, sex surgeries and now "gender theories" more often than not obscenely keeping their penis on their artificial woman's body, in opposition to "freaks of nature", real hermaphrodite persons as "cases" from birth presenting both genders features in a dysfunctional way that had no choice indeed, a rare genetic anomaly normally "fixed" at birth by doctors in charge for medical reasons.

"This says more about you than about them - on several levels." ... Just how many times will I come across this poor excuse for an argument, either as an easy way out of constructive criticism leading its authors to such an obnoxious self-righteousness, or coming from random folks thinking they are the Savior of the innocents, dismissing any and all opposition back to their own shame and guilt for disapproving marginal behaviors and lifestyles..? Read me, NO ONE is innocent, I can express my views freely without being bound by your "political correctness" and again, you don't know me, so don't talk about me or project intentions on me you believe I may have, please. Trust me, if I have something to say, I will say it clearly, without delay and double-check there is no misunderstanding my message has met its purpose.

Leaving aside the rare cases of true hermaphroditism, am I better than transgender people suffering about their gender indecision, or homosexuals suffering temptations for same-sex sexual relations? No, I am aware the tables could turn anytime and find myself subject to live the same situation given the same circumstances, I am also a "sinner" and try to do my best for them, caring and praying for their safety and humanity, "normally" treating them like anyone else, indiscriminately as equal human beings, as a plain male or female person. I won't condone their desires and tendencies for homosexual relations or sex change but the only conditions they won't find too helpful support from me would come from my stance of irrevocable disapproval about their own indecision for being "bisexual" or "shemale". Do I know better than them about their own gender..? Well, I firmly believe body genetics and the reproductive system makes the gender. A man has testicles, can't get pregnant and / or breastfeeding, a woman has ovaries, can't produce semen, sperm but give birth to babies. I draw the line at hormones and organic functions having the proper answer.

I respect people standing for themselves and their convictions, their decisions given they are taking full responsibility for it, and obviously them not being convicted criminals. The most if these are making sense to my understanding of what is right and useful to others, the less if they are of selfish motivations, the bad if they can't decide for themselves and the worst being people claiming irresponsibility, like "God made me gay" as victims of circumstances having no choices over their own decision to act in one way or another, holding on the pinnacle of cowardice.. Even so, my judgment is about particular behaviors, not the definitive appreciation of a person as a whole, the finish line is death, we can still change for the better until then..

Socially, without knowledge of their "private parts" to speak it out, I don't see a reason to challenge a person's gender social presentation as male or female, unless obvious doubts arise because of their appearance or behavior. Though if I get to know about it, only post-op transgender people I can fully consider as male or female, as I see this situation as a process to a complete change of sex from one to another. No ambiguous "in between" with me. Anyway, I'm just one person, so if a "shemale" person don't like this about me and is offended that I see them as "sick" and still male or female according to their genitals, we could just agree to disagree and that person to move on to another interlocutor, as I wont feed their craving for legitimacy for a second outside of regular ways. I value being true to my convictions more than pleasing people saying what they want to hear me say.

Some psychology, estimating someone's mental health being sane or insane is not a normative judgment of moral value about the person but a descriptive, temporary statement of fact, whether they are displaying signs of irrational alienation to something or someone that is not present during the observation from person A on person B. A person "in between" feeling great and all powerful, thinking they combine both genders is insane for being alienated to their subjective view of themselves that is unknown of other people. A person "in between" suffering hell because they don't know and feel oppressed about who they are, is being alienated by the nevrosis of their fantasies and compulsive thinking. Why "insane" and "unhealthy", because sooner or later said person won't have the support, the friends, the community, the energy and most of all the will to live anymore, to hold their mental barriers against reality as it is, without their ego in the way, because they will understand they should not have taken their own delusions for viable ways in the first place, and that event may break them to death with no mercy if not treated well in time!

If you ask me, a healthy transgender person is done changing from their former sex / gender to the other one, leading an active life and socialized as their new identity of being now a man, or a woman. All the persons "in between" still undergoing the process with professional, medical monitoring are in transition, but the ones "fully happy" looking like a girl while having a "working" penis I can't help but consider "sick", needing professional help to stabilize their gender identity and subjected to high risks of destructive behaviors, toward themselves and / or others until their sex change is either complete or cancelled. There is no balance and no growth to be found outside stable ways, especially through ethically unacceptable ones.

But.. Who is ever perfectly healthy? I am also insane in my own sick ways, just like any of us, I guess! The important thing is to be aware of that "inhumanity" and trying to sort it out as well as possible, preferably with the help of professionals, to manage a viable balance of living out of these misbehaviors instead of giving them power over yourself or worst, another human person or any living being.. As a rule, a healthy minded person is generally balanced, open to other people's contact, differences and ideas, organized and helpful to them within the range of what is commonly acceptable and serviceable.. While a person with an unhealthy mind is basically the opposite, self-focused, closing themselves to and from others, secretive and manipulative, usually sticking to a select group of a few people thinking alike from the same community, either "chosen ones" or "walking their own lonesome road" as they think and feel it, suffer..

Until a person realizes he / she is sick, they can't understand their need for help. Mental issues generally consist in self-esteem irregularities and blind subjectivity using others to compensate, with the sick person still finding this "normal".. These diseases are slowly, painfully healed by living again with others as a whole, not anymore as a separate being / group self-focused about "it's me / us against you / them".. The freedom to chose, to act is a bait as we all have it already, what is done behind closed doors no one knows and therefore nobody can interfere, ANYWAY!

"The Gender Theory".. Do you even know what you are actively supporting, its origins? Its outright criminal father, John Money and his inhuman experience involving baby twins life and growth, leading a family to a human tragedy..? Gender studies as a reflexion about the influence of culture on nature, fine. As a tool for "new" genders and morally questionable sexual behaviors within our Human Race to be created or comforted..? No, and that's where I stand. Some context, I am 34 years old, not religious but of Christian Faith, and in France currently, socialist politics are planning to experience said "Theory" on our children of early age, at school.. Sorcerer's apprentices on children, can you see where my opposition comes from, a little..?

Anyway, that's just my honest opinion, I am not forcing it into anyone and I now contributed all I had to express on this topic about the serious business of gender bending, after editing my post countless times.. The rest is Facebook stuff.

Let's say there is a couple, we'll call them Mr Y and Mrs X. They are regular members of society, they go to work, the pay taxes, all that stuff. Now, they just happen both to be into S&M. There is two options:
a) They keep it in their bedroom and act like normal people outside. Most people don't even know they are into S&M and the two of them have no need to share it with the rest of the world.
b) They dress up in leather underwear and walk around town like that, they shove it in everyone's face, even people who don't want to know. When someone points out to them that he or she doesn't want to be constantly reminded the two go on a rant about how that person is a Nazi sympathiser and oppressing them.

Which behaviour do you think is more appropriate? I am clearly in favour of a) because the public should be treated as neutral ground. The majority of people find homosexuality disgusting, an that's a perfectly natural reaction, so shouldn't the ones who are constantly crying for respect and acceptance be the first ones to show respect and acceptance? Would you be willing to accept coprophiles smearing facies all over each other in public? I hope not, because in most people facies cause disgust, so it should be kept in private.

They are ignorant, uneducated bullshit, and demonstrate exactly why gender studies should be taught in school, that is all.

Judge me on my first message that was kind of a stunt, as I was in an agressive mood.
Ignore the much expanded ones I cared to write, explaining my views, your (wrong) choice.

I'm inviting you to consider one more situation.

Who is really "loving" transgender people from the three..?

A The clients of their occasional prostitutions?
B The politicians, while wanting them better integrated to societies, building bridges for more to join?
C People like me, warning them of the risks and reminding them the freedom to decide is their responsibility?

Have a good day anyway, though please don't mistake this as a call to further discussion.
I spoke my mind well enough already on the subject in these messages you skipped.

Edit : Actually, I said "judge me" but it is incorrect, judge my words and message it is. You have no authority to judge me as a person.

No, I judge on your lengthy messages, which demonstrate your absolute lack of comprehension of anything at stake here.

And the next generation, when gender studies will be taught in school with the rest of human knowledge (this being how, generally, scientific progress gets into common knowledge instead of being some sort of elite academic thing) will have a clearer understanding of it, and the problem will be solved.

I'm staying out of this debate, because quite frankly, I can't be arsed. However, I think you've misunderstood the point of education - it's about giving people the tools to decide for themselves (which koima57 has done) - you seem to be arguing for indoctrination - making people think in a way that conforms to your point of view.

They're very different concepts.

No, education is information. Indoctrination is about ideology.

You have biology classes, they educate about DNA and living cells, they don't "indoctrinate kids into believing we are not made of sponge". Kids learn in school that the earth revolves around the sun, they are not "indoctrinated" into ditching the flat earth or geocentrist representations.

It's a mere element of knowledge, that is currently missing from popular representations.

In other words, we don't care about your "opinions" or "tastes" or "religious views". And you can yell that school indoctrinate kids into believing that dinosaurs existed, if ou want, it doesn't change the fact that it's knowledge transmission, and that creationism or other antiscientific views are indoctrination.

But yeah, every time new elements (or déconstructions of former traditional beliefs) are inscluded in school programs, the backwards traditionalist crowd yells at "indoctrination". I've even seen this about the biological, genetic, deconstruction of dusty racialism. So, be my guest.

Biology and DNA is science. Gender is a social study. Science has absolutes. Social studies don't - they're about deciding for yourself.

That's all I'm going to say on the matter as quite frankly, this entire thread is a load of balls and I'm never getting back the 10 minutes of my life I've spent on it.

Yeah, and 10 minutes you could spend on getting a little bit of education, and avoid, in the future, making such a fool of yourself.

Again, it is pure ignorance. But of the deliberate kind. And deliberate ignorance can't be fought.

You're the ignorant one for ignoring differing points of view. I'm just an idiot for thinking that any benefit would come from responding to a sanctimonious twit.

You're the ignorant one for thinking that "social science" is about exchanging opinions and expressing wishes.

Ah, I think I get it now, thanks! Before disgusting people can ask for respect and acceptance they first need to show a little more respect towards the normal majority by accepting their marginalization and feeling ashamed for what they are, because that should be everyone's perfectly natural reaction.

Well, there might still be a little uncertainty about the terms "normal", "natural" and "majority", but I bet HiPhish will gladly come up with another convincing definition. Maybe it includes burly men kissing pretty girls in public and public TV broadcasting exclusively heterosexual love stories and tits, but I think we shouldn't draw any premature conclusions here, because in the end only HiPhish knows what the normal majority deems natural. In any case, the ingenious thing about this is that since everyone has to act normal in public (and that would include e.g. showing disgust at homosexuality, as this is the natural reaction), we never need to care about where the true majorities lie. Everyone just has to sweep their disgusting feelings under the rug and the problem's solved! ;)

just: (see attached pic)

e: in answer to the original post: Does it even matter? which begs the question should such options exist in the first place, id doesn't or rather shouldn't influence anything in life and as such why not avoid all the resulting issues it can cause and just scrap the field all together?

I wanted to write an actual answer, but it is pointless, you have been blinded by self-righteous hate, fuelled by special-interst lobbies. The only people profiting from this are the lobbyists, the ones at the bottom are not going to get anything out of it. I have said all I had to say, you're the one putting accusations in my mouth.

'Individuals who have a match between the gender they were assigned at birth, their bodies, and their personal identity'

Or basically, an entirely unneeded term.