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General discussion (archive)Addiction help?(107 posts)(107 posts)
(107 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted December 23, 2011
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Scribe81: nor how legal and prostitute can coexist since prostitution is actually illegal in the US, but porn isn't.
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orcishgamer: FYI, prostitution is legal and regulated in some US states (and not just Nevada). If prostitution was considered free speech no states could make it illegal.

Performances of any kind have typically been considered free speech.

Some states have an even greater interpretation of free speech than the Federal Government, in these states even nominally illegal activities are protected and there are no longer any arrests for them.

Incidentally you should know that the porn industry in the US is actually extremely heavily regulated. They have to comply with laws that border on the ridiculous in regards to record keeping, etc. The penalties for breaking these laws (which can amount to a record keeping error, i.e. a document couldn't be found upon request, even if it is later located and everything was legal) are also extremely punitive. The people in charge, since they are on the hook for actual prison for the slightest infraction, are pretty anal from what I understand. That is actually pretty responsible for some definitions of responsible, though it's due to rational self interest.

Also, if you say, "I'm not trying to say X is wrong" and in the next breath you say "I don't support X" and intimate X is only legal because of a corrupt justice system, then you're basically saying "X is wrong". I do commend you for presenting it as an opinion, however.
Interesting. I knew it was legal in Nevada, or at least some parts of Nevada, but not in some shape or form in other states as well.

I know the porn industry is very regulated. What I meant by responsible or lack thereof, is that the majority of people in the industry are meth-heads. I have friends in the entertainment industry, I'm actually a screenwriter trying to sell my shit in the entertainment industry and a buddy of mine used to run a web-design business in an office in North Hollywood that he shared with a porn editor (this guy just sat there editing and watching porn every single day). The majority of people in the porn industry are crack-heads of some sort. Not trying to get into a discussion on the legality or right and wrong of drug use, but generally speaking, if you're snorting or smoking meth several times a day, snorting or smoking coke/crack, frying balls, or stacking 8 ecstacy pills a day, you can't really be considered to be a responsible person. Didn't mean the entire industry, was irresponsible, just the majority of producers, directors and ho's. There's obviously a ton of other people involved that are probably not drug addicts that keep things in order, I was just addressing the comment regarding producers.
Posted December 23, 2011
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Arteveld: Caught in the pornado, huh? Yeah, i'm there myself, perhaps it doesn't help, but, You're not alone in it.
Ahah, Pornado!
Well I'm with you guys. But I think for not too long, good advices from some religious guys.
GOGs do help.
Posted December 23, 2011
Define addiction? Like half a dozen times a day? Okay that's a problem. Once a day? It's called being human.
Posted December 23, 2011
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Scribe81: Now I will have to argue your statement that a medical treatment is the only way to help in this. Yes, medically, if you've got an infection, cancer, etc., etc, please go see a doctor. But I have yet to meet a single person being treated medically for something in the mind that has overcome anything, except for people with ADHD, the medicine for that seems to really help calm and focus people up. All medication does is dull the hell out of a depressed or anxious person, not solve their issue. If you consider therapy as medical help, then yes we agree on that, but medicine for especially a porn problem, in my opinion, won't solve a thing, because I smoked a ton of weed, and it only increased the desire for porn, :)
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orcishgamer: Oh, I'm not trying to imply medical treatment only consists of pills and surgery. However one should see a medical professional to treat medical issues, they are best qualified to help you understand your treatment options and avoid the harmful voodoo which somehow even very intelligent people still fall prey to (and I'm not solely, or even primarily, talking about religion when I say voodoo). Counseling may very well be enough for some people, but the OP is essentially diagnosing himself, which is bad, bad, bad, though it's very tempting and we all do it sometimes. I suggest the OP (or anyone) evaluate whether they actually have some kind of problem (i.e. is shit getting fucked up in your life?), if so, the next step is to talk to a doctor and see both what it might be and what paths you might take to "un-fuck" things.

Doctors are trained to evaluate whether the cure is worse than the disease and this is something normal people tend to forget to do.

As for religions calling people who masturbate "damned", you may call those people "not true Christians" but that's just the "No True Scotsman" logical fallacy. It's very prevalent in many extremely popular religions and even if you personally don't ascribe to that belief it's still a charge that must be answered and dealt with, not hand waved away as a non-issue.

As for doctors treating problems in the head, no one is that good at it at this point in time, but a damned site better than layman in the vast majority of cases. My daughter has Asberger's so I'm around people who have various mental problems fairly frequently. Neuroscience isn't great but it beats the voodoo.
Agree on both statements. Wouldn't want someone doing some crazy shit to try to diagnose and/or cure themselves, and yes, there is a problem with religious persons, especially Christians, verbally condemning people for masturbation, espcially since that goes against Jesus's teaching of thou shalt not judge. However, the minds in these type of religious deal in absolutes, and though I argue with them all time, I've never been able to crack a single one.

As for doctors treating problems in the head, yes it is better than voodoo, if we're talking chicken heads and blood rituals, lol. I am not familiar with the majority of mental diseases and wouldn't pretend to be an expert in them, I was only addressing the porn side of things. I've actually considered if I don't have ADHD since both my sisters do and are being treated for it, and the first thing I did was take the quick questionaire the Maroon 5 guy says to do on that commercial, not crack open the Bible.
Post edited December 23, 2011 by Scribe81
Posted December 23, 2011
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Metro09: Define addiction? Like half a dozen times a day? Okay that's a problem. Once a day? It's called being human.
To me addiction is something you cannot stop doing. Dozen times a day or every two days or whatever, if you just can't stop it while you try to, it's addiction.
Posted December 23, 2011
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RightInPot: To me addiction is something you cannot stop doing. Dozen times a day or every two days or whatever, if you just can't stop it while you try to, it's addiction.
Do you consider eating and sleeping an addiction?
Posted December 23, 2011
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RightInPot: To me addiction is something you cannot stop doing. Dozen times a day or every two days or whatever, if you just can't stop it while you try to, it's addiction.
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stonebro: Do you consider eating and sleeping an addiction?
You are addicted to trolling, but you know we can help you.
Posted December 23, 2011
What is this "porn" you speak of?
Posted December 23, 2011
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stonebro: Do you consider eating and sleeping an addiction?
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RightInPot: You are addicted to trolling, but you know we can help you.
It's a good point, nonetheless. Any useful definition has to distinguish between self-preserving or self-improving ("normal") behavior and self-destructive behavior.

Aviel Goodman (yeah, many people think Goodman is full of shit, myself included, but he was still one of the first to take behavioral addictions seriously) made a good stab at it when he defined addiction as "a behavior... employed in a pattern characterized by... recurrent failure to control the behavior... and continuation of the behavior despite significant negative consequences". ["Addiction: definition and implications" (1990)]

That definition could be criticized as question-begging; we need to say what manner of things are negative consequences, or it will end up swallowing its own tail. A good list of negative consequences would be the ones now defined for "problem gambling":

Continual preoccupation, developing tolerance, withdrawal symptoms, escaping into the behavior, chasing (this is like trying to recover your losses at gambling, or drinking to cover a hangover), lying, loss of control, breaking laws, breaking relationships (like losing a job or a significant other), or needing to be bailed out (needing somebody else's help to get out of a problem caused by the behavior). Exhibit any five, and you win the label.
Post edited December 23, 2011 by cjrgreen
Posted December 23, 2011
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RightInPot: You are addicted to trolling, but you know we can help you.
Just trying to educate you. Your definition of what constitutes an addiction is wrong.

When it comes to porn, the drive for sexual relief is not an addiction because it is one of the three primary drives of living organism. I am aware that extreme cases exist among humans, of course. But it's still not an addiction, not in the medical sense of the word.

You do not need professional help because you get off to porn. You might however need help if you're convinced getting off to porn is somehow wrong.

Food, sleep, and sex. That's all a mammal needs.
Posted December 23, 2011
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RightInPot: You are addicted to trolling, but you know we can help you.
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stonebro: Just trying to educate you. Your definition of what constitutes an addiction is wrong.

When it comes to porn, the drive for sexual relief is not an addiction because it is one of the three primary drives of living organism. I am aware that extreme cases exist among humans, of course. But it's still not an addiction, not in the medical sense of the word.

You do not need professional help because you get off to porn. You might however need help if you're convinced getting off to porn is somehow wrong.

Food, sleep, and sex. That's all a mammal needs.
The question is not whether something is a primary drive (though, in the case of humans, I'd take note of "consortium" (meaning intimate, long-term companionship, including but not limited to sex) as a primary need).

The question is whether it has escalated into something destructive and beyond a victim's ability to control. I don't know whether porn addiction is as nonexistent as you claim or as widespread as others do. One person who comes to me with a problem is more important than all those damned statistics put together.

As to what the community of psychiatrists and clinical psychologists considers an "addiction" vs. an "impulse control problem", I will cheerfully ignore that question.
Posted December 23, 2011
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stonebro: Food, sleep, and sex. That's all a mammal needs.
I get your point, but to me porn is not a mammal need. Making love to a woman is.
And sometimes porn is exactly the opposite of making love with a woman.
By its nature (easy access, number of videos, some of its content) internet porn can disconnect someone from the real pleasure and fullfilment that making love with a woman is.

I'm not saying every porn is evil and that it can do only but wrong to everybody, I just say it can be an addiction that can bring some problem to people.

But if you have in mind that sex = porn, I don't think we can agree on anything.
Posted December 23, 2011
Have a sex with a $2 hooker.
Posted December 23, 2011
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RightInPot: I get your point, but to me porn is not a mammal need. Making love to a woman is.
And sometimes porn is exactly the opposite of making love with a woman.
By its nature (easy access, number of videos, some of its content) internet porn can disconnect someone from the real pleasure and fullfilment that making love with a woman is.

I'm not saying every porn is evil and that it can do only but wrong to everybody, I just say it can be an addiction that can bring some problem to people.

But if you have in mind that sex = porn, I don't think we can agree on anything.
Well, sex is a basic mammalian need, and while we're the only species who have access to porn, plenty of animals masturbate when not with a partner.

Obviously porn is not a mammalian need. I never said it was. Sexual relief, however, is. You can get that with a partner, or by yourself. When by yourself, porn often helps bridge a little bit of the gap towards actually doing it with a partner. Psychologically, I believe it is better than masturbating without any kind of, shall we say, visual stimuli.

I do realize that masturbation and porn can become somewhat of an obsession if a partner is not forthcoming, but in those cases, it's not a problem with porn, it's a problem with the person in question who for whatever reason is unable to secure an actual partner.

Hence the underlying problem is not a porn addiction, but difficulties finding a suitable partner such that porn becomes less prevalent in ones sexual patterns. Treat the cause, not the effect.
Posted December 23, 2011
you guys do realise that the OP hasn't posted anything since starting the thread? Did it occur to anyone that he was just trolling?
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General discussion (archive)Addiction help?(107 posts)(107 posts)
(107 posts)