Some people(not saying rwarehall specifically but in general) see things as positive/the customer deciding when it's something they like, and see stuff as brigading/manipulation/not the "true" will of the customer when it's something they do not like.

Sure, and we're all entitled to our opinions. I do think study/pursuit of truth is worthwhile, not everyone agrees with that, but for me I like to look at if a view or an argument is consistent. It tells a lot:

If someone's view is honestly "any post that encourages people to vote for games on the wishlist is brigading, and brigading is wrong," fair enough.

THAT is not what I see happening here and why I suggest the issue is more a matter of bias then a well-reasoned argument. It can't make sense in that view to decry brigading, but only for certain games.

I also don't see it much happening here with regards to some points made.....like rwarehall said gog wishlist is being manipulated so we cannot trust it for the games that gog rejected, while also then touting steam scores and reviews as valid and seemingly not prone to manipulation or error......he cannot have it both ways, either all reviews/scores can be potentially suspect or none can be.

You people are just crazy. I've lost rep for years and now you are accusing me of having an army of alts?

How about a simpler explanation...

People are reading the thread, see exactly what I'm talking about, namely the same handful of people complaining about every GoG curation decision. See how poorly rated these games are. See how in your dozens of posts patting each other on the back, you have no real argument. Have seen all the forum threads that you guys have started or keep reviving all the time every month and are sick of it?

Doesn't that sound just a little more plausible?

As to Elminage ORIGINAL...
At least it's 87% positive in its total of 31 reviews on Steam since Nov of 2017...

And to quote the most helpful review (and a positive one at that)...

"So many doors. So many rooms. So little in the way of meaningful content.

On the surface it looks like a huge game. Dig deeper and realize it's practically empty. Besides decent combat and really well done art, there isn't much to go on here.

This is the last poorly translated Japanese game I'll ever play!

I'm still giving it a thumbs up, as it does nail the Wizardry components down quite well, and I've been playing this style of game for the last 30 years. If I was new to the dungeon crawling genre, I'd be put off from trying others.

If your gaming funds are limited, try Fall of the Dungeon Guardians, Grimoire: Heralds of the Winged Exemplar, or Ruzar first."

Speaking of, maybe you guys can start brigading for Ruzar - The Life Stone too since its mentioned...
71% positive about the quality you guys like with 85 reviews since Dec 2015

I'm sure those are the interest and sales numbers GoG is looking for...

I never said that.....please don't lie about me k?

Even if what you were saying was the case, if gog doesn't listen to such why does it matter to you so much?

So you trust steam reviews and scores more than gog wishist, when both can be easily manipulated? Seems like you only accept things that support your arguments and try to cast aside the rest if it doesn't support your viewpoint.

Also I notice that review above praises Grimoire.

So it's ok to do so for games you like? Ok then.....I know now to not take your opinions as seriously(on such things) in the future as you seem to be a bit hypocritical.

P.S. I might still look into the game and promote it anyways if it is good.

It's very simple really...
If you are going to criticize the way someone is doing their job, put yourself in their position and act as if you are making that decision. Why am I calling out these games? Because at the urging of this handful of people I looked into them.

For all I knew, I'd go to the Steam page and find a 90% game with over 1000 reviews, but I didn't...

I did some of the things I'd expect GoG to do in their curation process.
1) Assess the actual public interest in the game.
2) Assess the public perceived quality of the game.

Then based off that information, try to:
3) Draw a conclusion over its sales potential.

And what did I find?

You people seem to forget I posted in the Opus Magnum thread back in the day with the sales numbers and review scores of other Zachtronics games and how I could not understand that rejection. Where on the GoG bestselling list the other Zachtronics games were. Positive media press. Why? Because this gathered information spoke to me saying this game probably belongs in the catalog.

Instead the basis for your arguments seem to be "I want the game here. If the reviews are bad or lacking, they must be flawed. Somehow...although I can't explain how." or in other words as paraphrased from another user "I want my lolli, gimme"

Furthermore...where are you getting this "easily manipulated" crap. Steam requires people to write actual reviews where their true motives can be read into with the game time played info tied to the reviews. That would take a lot of effort to program bots to do that...

Compare that to the GoG Wishlist...and what any user here knows about forum posts and Wishlist shilling...
One reflects people who actually own the game...the other people pressing an upvote button whether they plan to buy it or not based on shilling and presence of mind. Which do you think is more accurate?

And I literally began my post with the words "Tinfoil hat mode: ENGAGED!". I was poking fun at my own paranoid theories before I posted them.

Ok, then please use some of that profiler prowess and explain the recent DreadOut release to me. Don't get me wrong, I'm as happy as anyone that this game is finally here, but nothing about this release makes any sense, according to the standards you apply...

- it's about 5 years late
- it's been offered DRM-free on other platforms basically since launch day
- bad reviews
- mediocre user score
- it's been bundled to hell and back
- less than 200 votes on the wishlist
- despite the 5 year delay gog still manages to fuck up the launch by not offering the standalone Keepers of the Dark DLC (which would have been the only thing to set this release apart from the Playism version that's been out for 5 years)

I mean, it's comforting to know that Grimoire will probably be released here after maybe another half decade or so when everyone already has a copy on some other store (and gog will somehow still manage to sell an inferior version). Who am I to judge their genius "curation", but I'm still at a bit of a loss. Maybe you can help explain.

I do, and the too niche excuse is trash especially when combined with what devs state(I don't think all of them are lying or bound to be lying).

Also just because you don't like them doesn't mean you should be against them coming here for those thta might want them....or do you not care about the others who shop here and only your own tastes?

So you're saying ONLY games with above 90% and a ton of good reviews are worth getting here? Or what?

Basically you can see why some games should be here as long as you think they should, but not those others want that you don't want.

Or maybe we have also good reasons for wanting games here and stuff to back that up like you do with the games you want here?
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Some people(even me sometimes) seem to read stuff way too quickly before replying....I usually read a bit and then reply/edit/post.....well unless I am tired on in a hurry to go out irl.

Damn, great example/counter to his points.

Also pic=how he seems to be right now with his asking for some game he likes to be "brigaded".

The curation team is likely(though I am not 100% certain of course) biased and has preferences and disguises that with too niche excuses.

It's not actual debate when the only thing you do is try to poke holes...you see to be completely and totally devoid of any real arguments why these games you want actually belong here. Picking a low-hanging fruit is not a good case for taking in other subpar games.

DreadOut
2,693 reviews but only 75% positive.
I agree substandard reviews but adequate number of reviews...
It's also been bundled 4 times - 2 in 2017 and 2 in 2018 but not since Aug 2018
One of those in the $1 tier.

Why was it added? Maybe because they want DreadOut 2 here...as a Day 1 release and this is intended as advertising for the upcoming game where they plan to make Day 1 money.

Just like they added the bundled Braid to go along with the Witness release.

GameRager...all you do is make excuses and repeat your nonsense. You don't have any real arguments. Clearly you didn't even bother to go to Steam to check out how much better reviewed this game is than the ones you are claiming belong here.

"But I want this game" isn't a good argument.

Bias much? People can still play a game for a bit and LIE on how good or bad it is.....people DO lie, you know.

Your entire argument here with ratings on steam vs gog is pic related..........

I poke holes mainly because of your crude replies/insults/lack of wanting to hear opposing views for the most part so far...also your obvious cherry picking and bias on data sets to suit your argument makes a big enough hole on it's own.

Plus why should I even debate on games I want here when you will likely hand wave them off like most of what i've said and insult me and others some more? Where's my incentive if your mind is made up?

Stop making excuses for Gog all the time and dismissing everything others say outright...or is that too much to ask?

Just like yhou make excuses for gog and their curation choices here. Also you don't even know what games I want here to be clear.

You used it earlier a few times, so why can't I use it? Also people should be allowed more choice and again it would likely help gog make more money.

GameRager, quit being an idiot...

These aren't "excuses" they are facts and data.
That fact you can't see this says a little about your lack of mental faculties...

You bring nothing to the table except complaints about GoG's curation that you clearly are too dumb to understand. And baseless accusations that I'm biased so should be ignored despite the fact I'm one of the few bringing facts, data and real business sense to the discussion.

It's not that hard to figure out why GoG brought DreadOut here.
DreadOut 2 is due to release soon and DreadOut has an estimated 200,000 to 500,000 owners on Steam according to SteamSpy.

Compare that to:
Grimoire: 0 to 20,000
Fall of the Dungeon Guardians: 20,000 to 50,000 (despite being bundled)
Elminage ORIGINAL: 0 to 20,000

So it's not terrible. Still given its age, the fact it has been available very cheap in bundles, and its subpar to middling user ratings on Steam it was unlikely to make it here purely on its own merits. Hence, it's far more likely a deal is already in place to bring its sequel here which GoG has likely already reviewed in its current state.

How about you go first?

Sorry, but you're being purposefully dense right now(likely due to cognitive dissonance mixed with bias), and a good part of your posts seem to be filled with hypocritical cherrypicking/projection/hyperbole/improper framing/insults.

Easily falsifiable data, you mean. Anyone can start a steam account or two and make fake reviews/scores.

You are acting biased....you hold up the steam ratings/reviews as they support your claims and toss the gog wishlist data because it doesn't.

And again, why should I bring anything more to the table when you cannot properly debate without improper tactics(listed above) and insults of the opposing side? Why should I bother trying when you'd likely cast it aside and shift the goalposts?

Stop defending gog so much....I am starting to believe the shill theory others pushed earlier because of your latest posts and denial of most of what i've said(if not all).
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Look in the end most of what you've said doesn't discount the fact that if gog can bring other more niche games here(and afford the costs that come up) then they can bring the ones we might want as well.

Let the market decide, not a gatekeeping team of likely biased people with preferences.
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"Easily falsifiable data"? Clearly you are a fool...

You bring nothing to the discussion except the dumbest counter-claims based on absolutely nothing but your conspiratorial nonsense.

Please, go ahead, buy a bunch of a Steam game, play them all for 2 hours or so on dozens of account to do this...writing unique reviews each time...
Are you nuts? Do you have a psychiatrist? You seem to be completely deluded...

On top of that, the reviews are there for people to look at to see whether they seem sincere.
And your BEST argument is the completely totally STUPID argument that because reviews CAN be manipulated, we should just completely ignored that data and listen to you...

That is the definition of dumb...

"fool", "nonsense"? I could go on there right now and make false reviews on games I own if I wanted.....so it's not a conspiracy as it can be done.

No, but you go ahead and plug your ears if you want(when presented with opposing views that don't align with your own).

It's not hard to write a few reviews and copy paste them with some words changed if one wanted to do so....but believe what you will.

Yet you yourself complained of gog wishlist manipulation and "brigading" earlier.....should we just listen to you then?
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Since you seem to not want to consider opposing viewpoints and keep insulting me and others, I will treat you from now on like the baby you seem to want to be seen as. All further replies by you, if not civil/showing you willing to have an honest discussion, will be met with silly meme pictures and replies.

If, however, you can talk politely and actually debate properly I will be willing to continue as civil a conversation as I can.
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