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toxicTom: Point'n'Click Adventures
Shooters
RPGs
Games with stealth elements
Open world games
Adventures!
Better yet, how about having to click something out of view or do some unusual item combination? Like I could use some glue and paper to fix this small crack, but instead let's use the cereal and alien slime.

As for the progress triggers, how about the annoying specific but unmentioned order? For example, to get the shopkeep to give you the important gear, first you have to talk to the minister in Town B, then go to Town A and talk with the bard, and finally go back to Town C and get the goods.

Shooters!
How about when you can only do a fixed amount of damage per arbitrary round/phase?
Oh, or how about when the game makes it obvious that you're going to need a certain weapon but you're fresh out or it didn't actually give it to you yet?
Or an old favorite: Giving you the equipment that would have been useful, after the fact.

RPGS!
When your progress is blocked by some minigrame they mention once at the start. Looking at you, Terra Master.
On the flipside: Getting screwed because you never invested in some low skill, so you either get screwed by a requirement or something it unlocks.

Stealth!
Better yet, not having any idea how far the line of sight is. Even the MSX Metal Gear games gave you something of an idea.

Open World
On the flipside: Only being allowed to place vague symbols. Did I place that skull there because that's where I last died, or is it because there's an angry centaur that will wreck my day?

As for handolding, I agree completely, but I don't think anyone would call Skyward Sword either open, or even world. More an arbitrary chain of corridor sections. Still, noting quite breaks the immersion and roleplaying quite like being told your batteries are low or some kind of other fourth wall shatter.
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dtgreene: Does this bother you in other games?
Not so much... although in action games I sometimes find it annoying when the mega-ultra-uber weapon is unlocked only 15 minutes before the end and you don't get to play with it much. Bonus points if the final fight is not winnable by weapons, but with some trick or QTE...
System Shock did it perfectly: It gave you one of the most powerful weapons right at the start (Magpulse), but only 8 (iirc) shots. And it took about 2/3rds of the game to find new ammo for it.

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Darvond: Better yet, how about having to click something out of view or do some unusual item combination? Like I could use some glue and paper to fix this small crack, but instead let's use the cereal and alien slime.
Yeah, some games are guilty of that. The perfectly obvious solution to a problem "doesn't work" without any explanation. Instead you have to do something normal (like opening a door) in the most obscure way imaginable.
Post edited May 03, 2018 by toxicTom
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toxicTom: Not so much... although in action games I sometimes find it annoying when the mega-ultra-uber weapon is unlocked only 15 minutes before the end and you don't get to play with it much.
I actually remember having that problem with Secret of Evermore. There are so many interesting weapons and spells that don't come until the very end of the game, and as this is a game where you need to level up weapons and spells by use for them to become useful, it is a significant problem that the game ends too soon, so you don't get a chance to level up those late-game weapons and spells.

Secret of Mana handled this better; upgraded weapons don't need to be leveled separately, while the final type of spell is available for 3 major dungeons (major, as in, you aren't expected to clear them in one sitting), giving the new type of magic a chance to level up and become useful.

(Incidentally, I prefer raise-skill-by-use systems to skill point systems, as the raise-skill-by-use systems generally don't make it too hard to level up a new skill later in the game, whereas skill point systems generally make it harder to learn new skills late.)
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Darvond: Well, for the former, can you consider what there would be to loot after bisecting a goblin with a claymore, or hitting them with a holy light.
So kill it lightly. The purpose of this mechanic in jrpgs is to annoy the player (especially completionists) by forcing the use of non-combat moves repeatedly, not to make a more realistic item gathering possible.

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Darvond: As for the latter, I feel that's mostly an Asian sort of philosophy; that you're supposed to have your life figured out by 20 and if you haven't gotten into any role, well you're as bad as a Christmas cake in May.
I'm not saying there aren't excuses for these things. I just don't like them in my games. Oddly enough, I don't think too badly of the same sort of thing in TV shows, other than when it's really ridiculous (e.g. 10-year-olds with mysterious pasts).
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amok: bulletsponges
I hate FPS games... especially ones set in a realistic setting... where the enemies take endless hits to put down. Replayed Medal of Honor Airborne not long ago and it seriously took 3-4 chest hits to put a guy down, and those were the basic troops not the advanced ones. I get that it's to prioritize headshots but geez.
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amok: bulletsponges
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StingingVelvet: I hate FPS games... especially ones set in a realistic setting... where the enemies take endless hits to put down. Replayed Medal of Honor Airborne not long ago and it seriously took 3-4 chest hits to put a guy down, and those were the basic troops not the advanced ones. I get that it's to prioritize headshots but geez.
What difficulty do you play them on?
Making the last save point before a boss battle occur right before an unskippable cutscene.

Drains all my motivation to try again if I fail more than twice.
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tinyE: What difficulty do you play them on?
I usually default to normal unless there's something between normal and hardest, then I'll choose that. Not sure what options Airborne had. The enemies in that game also used ridiculous levels of grenade spam, which was also annoying (though effective, I gotta admit).
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tinyE: What difficulty do you play them on?
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StingingVelvet: I usually default to normal unless there's something between normal and hardest, then I'll choose that. Not sure what options Airborne had. The enemies in that game also used ridiculous levels of grenade spam, which was also annoying (though effective, I gotta admit).
I hated Airborne but it was for the level design, not what your describing. I am a slow old man and there is no way I could have finished it with baddies like that.

I must have been playing on easy.
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tinyE: I hated Airborne but it was for the level design, not what your describing. I am a slow old man and there is no way I could have finished it with baddies like that.

I must have been playing on easy.
It also had a factory level with tons of snipers that one-shotted me. Maybe I played on hard, I dunno. Don't get me wrong it's a solid game and wasn't super hard to complete or anything, it just had some frustrating moments.
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Luned: Making the last save point before a boss battle occur right before an unskippable cutscene.

Drains all my motivation to try again if I fail more than twice.
To me, having the unskippable cutscene in the first place is a peeve of mine.

I would really rather have my RPGs be cutscene-free, actually; save the cutscenes for things like visual/kinetic novels, where there's no gameplay for them to detract from (and vice versa).

Incidentally, your example makes me think of a case in Final Fantasy 10, which has you watching a 5 minute (not an exaggeration) cutscene prior to fighting a 3-phase boss fight, and the third phase starts with an attack that is very likely to wipe your party on your first attempt (unless you look up the strategy beforehand),

Another thing: When a scripted event makes things harder than they should be, by taking away a party member suddenly, for example. Here are a few examples:
* Final Fantasy 4. After the doll fight, there is another boss fight, where the boss is initially invulnerable, and will then proceed to kill everyone except Cecil. If Cecil happened not to survive the previous fight, this is a game over, and there's nothing you can do about this (especially if it's your first time playing), and you have to fight those dolls again.
* Breath of Fire 2: There's one part where the game forces you to play as a certain character (I think his name is something like Sten) solo, with no warning, and it's a character you could previously have gotten away without using at all. This can be a problem, perhaps a game-ending one, if he is underleveled.
* Star Ocean 2: If you are playing as Claude, there's one part where the game asks if you are prepared, and after you say yes, *then* takes away your healer. This one, I believe, isn't as bad as the other two examples I gave, but it is still obnoxious game design.

Also, any game that forces you to go too long without any chance to save. The worst example that comes to mind is Arc the Lad 2, which has a 2 hour dungeon without save points (there's a spot to rest and recover, but there's no save point there); what if I only have 30 minutes to play at a time? Final Fantasy 3 is also an offender here, and Lufia 2's Ancient Cave is ruined by the lack of any option to save in the middle.
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pkk234: Having a character's powers be taken away at the beginning for whatever reason.

I know it would be hard to make a game with a character that already has a full arsenal, especially for games like Metroid, but It just happens so often.

Honestly though, I don't know what other choice there would be. I don't want to play a game where i start off as power level 70 and end at like 75.
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Darvond: I do honestly get that; but I feel even more offensive is having your equipment arbitrarily restricted because daddy didn't say so.

Not being able to fire a gun in a nuclear disposal facility? Makes sense. Not being able to equip a fireproof suit in a room on fire? Asinine.
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TheGrand547: Platforming sections, like the the dream sequences in max payne(which btw are a great anti-drug campaign), in games that don't have controls designed for it like third person and first person shooters
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Darvond: Well, I suppose the root blame goes back to Half-Life for that. We still haven't mastered ladders for some reason.
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nevarRed: Fetch quests in RPGs. Especially when you're near/at the level cap.
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Darvond: Okay, I understand, but could you get me this important plot item and then lose it several times?
Well I thought some of the platforming in half life was fine, except for the xen platforming, that can die in a hole for all im concerned
I hate forced situations that just wouldn`t happen if you were there.

1.Fallout 3: When you find a bunch of kids, you`re gun is forced away, not that I would`ve shot them, but they should have allowed the possibility _it`s a game, no real kid would die. It`s very unimmersive and takes you right out of the game to suddenly be stopped out of nowhere.

2.You blow up tanks and buildings, but a little fence you can`t destroy.

3. Artificial invisible borders with no obvious obstruction. Go down a side road and suddenly you can`t move.

4. Baldurs Gate Enhanced- Forced SJW and feminist nonsense that was never origionally there with no option to say "No" or be mean about it - . BG was original about giving a good, neutral and bad option for every choice, whether nice or not.

5. BattleTech: The illusion of Choice. Being given an option to say "No, let`s not do that thing!" but if you do the game forces you around to what it wants to do anyway and thinks you`re retarded enough not to notice.

That`s about it for now.
Post edited May 03, 2018 by Socratatus
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Socratatus: 2.You blow up tanks and buildings, but a little fence you can`t destroy.
Related, I hate when you can run through fences and telephone poles and who knows what else but can't go through a bush. Early GTA games had issues with that, as I recall.
I love these threads. XD

I could talk about this stuff all day.
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