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sunshinecorp: That's what I meant. That I get a PS:T feeling. And also, this team can't really go wrong, can it?
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Reever: Ah sorry, kind of misunderstood with how you quoted Ian's answer! All's in the execution and I hope it won't fail. The crisis system sounds very interesting indeed. And people will get to play the alpha and beta versions again, so I believe it'll turn out to be a great game. Really can't wait for it to come out!
Yep. It's been delayed and delayed but I don't care if it makes for a better product in the end. :D
Ho-lee crap, now THAT feels like a Torment game.
Just watched the "first glimpse" - video...I'm so excited! :o)

Good times for fans of classic RPGs.
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BreOl72: Good times for fans of classic RPGs.
Indeed!
FYI: I'm not ragging on TB, I don't hate it (have a few TB games in my library) but I do see why it's a massive problem for those who do hate it. It's a major play mechanic and absolutely critical to the enjoyment of the game according to individual taste. Nobody should down play the issue and pretend it doesn't matter.

My objections are all about honesty and openness.

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sunshinecorp: this team can't really go wrong, can it?
The project look like it's going pretty well, but I always thought that PS:T was made over 15 years ago. Who knows truly how much influence these guys really had on the original, D&D and the Planescape setting were already an incredibly rich resource to build on. I looked at the games the individual named devs had worked on since and thought there's quite a lot that's mediocre or poor, quite often it's the people not in the spotlight that make the real difference. Of course it cuts both ways, some great people are hamstrung by idiots around them in some projects...

I don't really care about names attached to projects, it's all about the final product and that's ultimately why I decided to take a fresh look at T:ToN.
Post edited September 17, 2014 by IanM
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IanM: FYI: I'm not ragging on TB, I don't hate it (have a few TB games in my library) but I do see why it's a massive problem for those who do hate it. It's a major play mechanic and absolutely critical to the enjoyment of the game according to individual taste. Nobody should down play it and pretend it doesn't matter.

My objections are all about honesty and openness.

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sunshinecorp: this team can't really go wrong, can it?
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IanM: The project look like it's going pretty well, but I always thought that PS:T was made over 15 years ago. Who knows truly how much influence these guys really had on the original, D&D and the Planescape setting were already an incredibly rich resource to build on. I looked at the games the individual named devs had worked on since and thought there's quite a lot that's mediocre or poor, quite often it's the people not in the spotlight that make the real difference. Of course it cuts both ways, some great people are hamstrung by idiots around them in some projects...

I don't really care about names attached to projects, it's all about the final product and that's ultimately why I decided to take a fresh look at T:ToN.
Well, to get rid of the easy one first, Monte Cook played a great part in the development of Planescape itself, and has writted a lot of material for D&D. Granted, not all of it amazing, but some of it is really stellar. His work on his own systems lately is a bright example of how a tabletop RPG should be written.
Colin McComb also did a lot of work on D&D and Planescape itself. He was also the mastermind behind PS:T.
Need I talk about Chris Avellone guys? The guy is a genius.
Most of the team have also worked on other amazing cRPGs in the past (ex. Fallout...).
And Mark Morgan on the soundtrack, he needs no introduction.
So... let's visit this again. How much influence on the original? I'd say, a hell of a lot. Mediocre or poor material on their backs? Some, but nothing compared to their excellent work in general.
I just love the dialogue heavy screens. Looking very good for pre-Alpha.
I think you're being overly critical. I see no issue with them touting the game as a spiritual successor to PS:T. And from what I've seen, that's exactly what it looks like. Moreso than PoE is a spiritual successor to the IE game, IMO - and don't get me wrong, I'm quite pumped for PoE as well. But the Numenera setting has a real PS vibe to it. I bought the core rulebook a few months ago and read through it. It looks like it's the perfect setting for this game.

As for the TB vs RTwP, I would always choose RTwP if it were offered, but I in no way felt deceived on this. They never went in promising RTwP for the game. Not that I recall anyway. Was I disappointed they decided to opt for TB instead? Sure, but I'll cope. I've played TB games and enjoyed them as well. I certainly didn't feel deceived though. Hell, if they were thinking TB all along, then I feel it was great of them to ask us backers whether we wanted RTwP instead and allowed us to vote on it.
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Coelocanth: I think you're being overly critical
I think my criticism of this issue is restrained. I'll say it again, a lot of people can live with either system, it doesn't matter what they think. For those that find TB unplayable they wasted whatever amount they pledged. You cannot tell someone who can't enjoy something that they're wrong. If every encounter is an exercise in frustration there is no enjoyment to be had regardless of the other qualities. The choice of system is critical and should not be misrepresented in any way.
If you can't enjoy a game that doesn't have a given combat mechanic, but pledge money to a game without knowing that it would have that mechanic ... oh well.
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IanM: I think my criticism of this issue is restrained. I'll say it again, a lot of people can live with either system, it doesn't matter what they think. For those that find TB unplayable they wasted whatever amount they pledged. You cannot tell someone who can't enjoy something that they're wrong. If every encounter is an exercise in frustration there is no enjoyment to be had regardless of the other qualities. The choice of system is critical and should not be misrepresented in any way.
Thing is they never said it was going to be RTwP, as far as I recall. They never said it was going to be TB either. Why would you assume it was going to be RTwP? I'm not telling you you're wrong. If you hate TB, that's fine. What I'm saying is you're being overly critical by calling them liars because they decided to go with a TB system. I believe anyone that was vehemently opposed to TB could easily have cancelled their pledge and gotten their money back.
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Coelocanth: Why would you assume it was going to be RTwP?...
Because it's supposed to be a spiritual successor and the core play mechanics define the interaction. If you change one of the core mechanics you are making it more like something else. At some point it ceases to be a spiritual successor and it's just marketing, using a name and a brand to sell something. I did not anticipate the game being turn based at all, I 100% expected a real time game and I believe so did huge numbers of backers.

The lie is by omission because they knew what they were doing, they admitted keeping quiet about their intentions because they didn't want to discourage backers. It's such an obviously significant change from the original game 100% of professional designers would know in advance the gameplay implications anyway, would know that a lot of people would not like it and the shit storm that followed proved that expectations were not being met.
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IanM:
They did a TB vs RTwP community vote with the backers last year or early this year I can't remember, turn-based won.

I like both TB and good RTwP, emphasis on the word good, so it doesn't bother me as much. In fact it doesn't bother me at all since Planescape's heavy on the story, narrative and dialogue, I'm not really that fond of its combat at all as compared to another RTwP RPG such as BG2 which had really challenging, satisfying combat.
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cw8: They did a TB vs RTwP community vote with the backers last year or early this year I can't remember, turn-based won
that does nothing to excuse the crowd funding presentation

near 50% wanted RTwP in the vote and I doubt that anywhere near a majority of the TB voters actually expected TB when they pledged
Post edited September 18, 2014 by IanM
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cw8: They did a TB vs RTwP community vote with the backers last year or early this year I can't remember, turn-based won
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IanM: that does nothing to excuse the crowd funding presentation

near 50% wanted RTwP in the vote and I doubt that anywhere near a majority of the TB voters actually expected TB when they pledged
So, the voter base was made up of people who didn't necessarily expect TB, and when given the choice, the majority voted for TB? If anything, that shows just how much the backers wanted TB despite not expecting it. Mind, that all revolves around people having any idea what the gameplay would be like solely on the basis of it being a spiritual successor to PST; personally, all I got from that connection was that it would be big on story, characters, and the writing, with combat not being a main focus.