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Klumpen0815: Make you're own game with a gender neutral alien potato and I may play it if it's any good but I wouldn't expect a captivating storyline.
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dtgreene: Have you heard of a game called Undertale? The main character of that game is gender neutral, and that game is apparently quite popular.

Also, "you're" = "you are", so you basically wrote "Make you are own game...", which is not gramatically correct. (You probably meant "your".)
Yes yes, Undertale is POPULAR (Caps emphasis, LOL) because the main character is gender neutral, not because the game is GOOD. Sure, dream on.

Because Wonderland...
Post edited March 03, 2016 by YaTEdiGo
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dtgreene: Have you heard of a game called Undertale? The main character of that game is gender neutral, and that game is apparently quite popular.

Also, "you're" = "you are", so you basically wrote "Make you are own game...", which is not gramatically correct. (You probably meant "your".)
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YaTEdiGo: Yes yes, Undertale is POPULAR (Caps emphasis, LOL) because the main character is gender neutral, not because the game is GOOD. Sure, dream on.

Because Wonderland...
I never stated any causal relationship there. I just stated two facts about Undertale.
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dtgreene: I also note that, pretty much every time there's a case where a developer restricts the player's character to one sex (considering here games where the PC could be considered to represent the player), it's always the male sex that is chosen.
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Klumpen0815: Wrong.

[list of games omitted]

Do I really need to go on?

I can't play a male character there, SEXISM!
They have to cater to my needs and I can't relate to people of the opposite sex thanks to my totally crippled empathy, dammit! /sarcasm

Seriously, stories where everything about the protagonist is interchangable are pointless and it's mostly sandboxing instead of storytelling.
Let's add a couple constraints:

1. Only games that could be considered "mainstream" count. This excludes most indies (in particular, this excludes games like Touhou), but does include games like the Metroid series
2. For games with a selectable main character (or the main character's gender selectable), only count the default choice. (So, for example, Super Mario USA wouldn't count because Mario is the default choice, not Peach, but Unlimited SaGa (if you consider it mainstream, which it probably isn't) does because Laura is where the cursor starts.

Notice how the list is noticeably smaller? Also, note how small the list is compared to those with male main characters?

Let's consider some well-known JRPG series, for example:

Dragon Quest: Of 1-9, only 3 of them even have the option to play as a female character, and I believe it isn't the default for any of them. (Although, I note that the remakes of DQ3 favor female characters in terms of equipment selection.)

Final Fantasy: I exclude 1, 3, 11, 14, and 15, as well as sequels. (15 because it's not out, 1 and 3 because of the lack of specified gender in the first place, 11 and 14 because they are MMOs.) I further count FF6 as having a female main character (Terra and Celes share the "main character" spot in that game, and both are female). With all that, I conclude that only 20% of main series FFs have female main characters, and if FF15 is counted that percentage drops a bit.

Phantasy Star: Considering only 1-4, we get 25% having female main characters.

Fire Emblem: I am not that familiar with the series, but I note the following: 2 (gaiden) splits between two parties, with the first one you control having a male main. The rest of 1-6 have only male lords. 7 has Lyn, but she's only the main for the tutorial part of the game. 8 has a path split, and I think Eirika's path is default, so we'll count that as a female main. So, counting FE8 and exactly 1 of 2 or 7, we have 2 games, out of, I believe, 15, with female mains. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

Disgaea: No female main characters in the series. (This is actually a bit surprising, if you look at the other games produced by Nippon Ichi.)

Shin Megami Tensei: The only female main I am aware of is the one from Persona 3 Portable, and I believe she's not a default choice, so none in that series.
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dtgreene: 1. Only games that could be considered "mainstream" count. This excludes most indies (in particular, this excludes games like Touhou), but does include games like the Metroid series
2. For games with a selectable main character (or the main character's gender selectable), only count the default choice. (So, for example, Super Mario USA wouldn't count because Mario is the default choice, not Peach, but Unlimited SaGa (if you consider it mainstream, which it probably isn't) does because Laura is where the cursor starts.
Now you're making up your own rules again to support an argument, that's silly.
Why shouldn't indie games count? Who cares about the order of a choice if there is a choice?
Apart from Aquaria, Shantae and Knytt Underground the games in this list aren't even remotely considered as "indie".
Maybe you should widen your horizon before complaining categorically, you may even have some fun in the end.

Just play the games you prefer for whatever reason or make your own ones. It's really as simple as that.
Complaining about the hobbies and projects of others isn't exactly productive.

I've given you a list to choose from which I could have made even longer and you're still not happy.
Have you ever considered that your general dissatisfaction has nothing to do with video games?
Post edited March 03, 2016 by Klumpen0815
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Klumpen0815: Wrong.

[list of games omitted]

Do I really need to go on?

I can't play a male character there, SEXISM!
They have to cater to my needs and I can't relate to people of the opposite sex thanks to my totally crippled empathy, dammit! /sarcasm

Seriously, stories where everything about the protagonist is interchangable are pointless and it's mostly sandboxing instead of storytelling.
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dtgreene: Let's add a couple constraints:

1. Only games that could be considered "mainstream" count. This excludes most indies (in particular, this excludes games like Touhou), but does include games like the Metroid series
2. For games with a selectable main character (or the main character's gender selectable), only count the default choice. (So, for example, Super Mario USA wouldn't count because Mario is the default choice, not Peach, but Unlimited SaGa (if you consider it mainstream, which it probably isn't) does because Laura is where the cursor starts.

Notice how the list is noticeably smaller? Also, note how small the list is compared to those with male main characters?

Let's consider some well-known JRPG series, for example:

Dragon Quest: Of 1-9, only 3 of them even have the option to play as a female character, and I believe it isn't the default for any of them. (Although, I note that the remakes of DQ3 favor female characters in terms of equipment selection.)

Final Fantasy: I exclude 1, 3, 11, 14, and 15, as well as sequels. (15 because it's not out, 1 and 3 because of the lack of specified gender in the first place, 11 and 14 because they are MMOs.) I further count FF6 as having a female main character (Terra and Celes share the "main character" spot in that game, and both are female). With all that, I conclude that only 20% of main series FFs have female main characters, and if FF15 is counted that percentage drops a bit.

Phantasy Star: Considering only 1-4, we get 25% having female main characters.

Fire Emblem: I am not that familiar with the series, but I note the following: 2 (gaiden) splits between two parties, with the first one you control having a male main. The rest of 1-6 have only male lords. 7 has Lyn, but she's only the main for the tutorial part of the game. 8 has a path split, and I think Eirika's path is default, so we'll count that as a female main. So, counting FE8 and exactly 1 of 2 or 7, we have 2 games, out of, I believe, 15, with female mains. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

Disgaea: No female main characters in the series. (This is actually a bit surprising, if you look at the other games produced by Nippon Ichi.)

Shin Megami Tensei: The only female main I am aware of is the one from Persona 3 Portable, and I believe she's not a default choice, so none in that series.
Yeah this is just more of applying the same crystal ball gazing Anita does. No proof that games can cause sexism, many studies saying they can't, and assumption of malice from the developer without considering that its their artistic vision and choice they implement into their games. You can go on with your psuedo science all you want, but making all these tall claims without a shred of proof is useless against all but most feeble minded of people.
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dtgreene: By the way, in written Spanish, I hear that, instead of writing "amigo" or "amiga", you can write "amig@". Unfortunately, I don't know how to pronounce the @, and there are cases where software will see the @ and think you're writing an e-mail address.
Nonsense like this is why SJW are a laughing stock...
Ridiculous doesn't even being to describe what you and other people are trying to advocate.

(although it's still nice to have you here contributing, cheers)
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dtgreene: Fire Emblem: I am not that familiar with the series, but I note the following: 2 (gaiden) splits between two parties, with the first one you control having a male main. The rest of 1-6 have only male lords. 7 has Lyn, but she's only the main for the tutorial part of the game. 8 has a path split, and I think Eirika's path is default, so we'll count that as a female main. So, counting FE8 and exactly 1 of 2 or 7, we have 2 games, out of, I believe, 15, with female mains. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)
There are only 14 games thus far including 3, 11, and 12 (which are remakes and shouldn't count in your total), and Fire Emblem 10 has several female main characters. You start and end the game as Micaiah, part 2 focuses on Elincia and her people (including Nephenee, Marcia, Lucia, Leanne, and others, with different characters being playable as the main character depending on the chapter in question), and part 3 switches between Micaiah and Ike-led parties.

It's a bit tricky to determine the "main" character in FE games in general, though, because all that actually says is whose death automatically causes a game over. Leif may technically be the main character of 5, but anyone who's used Mareeta to hit Astra a billion times and wreck everything in sight could make a compelling argument for the opposite being the case. It's the same situation as Final Fantasy 6, really, with there being many different important characters, all of whom could be considered the "main" character.

As a side note, discounting 13 and 14 because the character creator has the cursor default to male is just petty, especially since everything from who you can pair the character up with to the gender of their eventual child is affected by the choice. There's also a financial element to the general disparity you're seeing that has to be taken into consideration; I've heard developers claim that publishers tried to change their main characters because female leads don't sell (this happened with Remember Me), and as ridiculous as that seems, the Tales of Illyria series' second game featured a female lead and it apparently tanked so hard that they had to add microtransactions to the third one. That one's an interesting case because the price quickly dropped to match the first game's, and it includes more content of an arguably higher quality, so I can't think of anything else to blame its lack of success on. Point being, I think shaming developers as though it's their intention to send a "male as default" message misses all the little nuances that actually cause things to be the way they are.
Post edited March 03, 2016 by 227
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YaTEdiGo: Yes yes, Undertale is POPULAR (Caps emphasis, LOL) because the main character is gender neutral, not because the game is GOOD. Sure, dream on.

Because Wonderland...
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dtgreene: I never stated any causal relationship there. I just stated two facts about Undertale.
So you are debunking your own argument now, cool.
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How much time can insecure nerds spend on whining about women?
About the time it takes to fill 344 pages on GOG.
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EyeNixon: How much time can insecure nerds spend on whining about women?
About the time it takes to fill 344 pages on GOG.
Ad hominem
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EyeNixon: How much time can insecure nerds spend on whining about women?
About the time it takes to fill 344 pages on GOG.
I see you don't understand what this is about then. it's more about journalists (that wont do their job) ideologues, con artists & people suckered into believing a false narrative about the people who love gaming. the fact that some of those are what is considered the "fairer" sex is irreverent.
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EyeNixon: How much time can insecure nerds spend on whining about women?
About the time it takes to fill 344 pages on GOG.
A bit of advice. Stop basing your information on the lies spread by Polygon, Kotaku, Jezebel, BuzzFeed, The Mary Sue, and other pseudo journalist pages.
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EyeNixon: How much time can insecure nerds spend on whining about women?
About the time it takes to fill 344 pages on GOG.
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LeonardoCornejo: A bit of advice. Stop basing your information on the lies spread by Polygon, Kotaku, Jezebel, BuzzFeed, The Mary Sue, and other pseudo journalist pages.
Are all those lying about the number of pages in this thread? :D
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LeonardoCornejo: A bit of advice. Stop basing your information on the lies spread by Polygon, Kotaku, Jezebel, BuzzFeed, The Mary Sue, and other pseudo journalist pages.
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Breja: Are all those lying about the number of pages in this thread? :D
I'm on page 138 at this point so yes :P
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LeonardoCornejo: A bit of advice. Stop basing your information on the lies spread by Polygon, Kotaku, Jezebel, BuzzFeed, The Mary Sue, and other pseudo journalist pages.
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Breja: Are all those lying about the number of pages in this thread? :D
No silly, I was talking about the "Insecure nerds whining about women" part.