But there are bad apples on both sides. That Brianna Wu threat is fresh on everyone's mind and has gotten plenty of coverage, but an almost identical threat was made to someone on our side and I've yet to see a single article about that. In a way, that exemplifies what all of this is about.

Our side looks like we have more bad apples because the sites we're fighting against are the ones with the platforms they can use to drive the narrative and paint us in a bad light, and if you really think that stepping away and rebranding our efforts would change their willingness to cover the harassment beneficial to their side and generally portray us as monsters, then we're going to have to disagree on that. They're not painting us as bad people because of the origins of the movement, but because they disagree with us and don't want to change their behavior.

Besides, if causes are sullied by their worst members, then politics in general is off-limits as a discussion because there have been bona fide assassinations as a direct result of it. The idea that something can become sullied by its ugliest elements is outwardly ridiculous.

Yes, there are "bad apples" on both sides.

But gamergate desperately has to get its supporters straight, or this is what happens.

https://storify.com/alexlifschitz/escapist-drama

I have literally no idea what that storify link has to do with anything. All I see is an Escapist article that didn't interview as many women as men (which is stupid, but doesn't really have anything to do with us), then a lot of talk about how Roguestar's opinion doesn't matter because he's said bad things in the past.

Which I'll agree with because he has, but if people's previous comments disqualify their opinions, then I suppose the author of that storify has the entire thing rendered meaningless by his previous awfulness (and believe me, there's plenty more where that came from). If that's not enough, how about Ian Miles Cheong (stillgray), whose opinion apparently carries weight in that storify? Well, besides being antisemitic, , and [url=https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/515269232993382400]pro-censorship, he's also totally for one-sided articles so long as they agree with him.

Remind me which side needs to get its supporters straight again? We have anons acting badly who we've decried. You have people employed in the industry acting badly who your side hasn't decried. Still waiting on an article about ggfeminist's death threat, by the way. Call me crazy, but it's almost like journalists are only covering harassment on one side to skew public opinion of their opposition. Someone should really start a movement to deal with things like that.

And another bastardized anti-GG promotional link. Good to see Zoe continuing to stalk the GGers. Things always end well when two sides really hate each other and continue to act on it. Ask the Israelis and Palestinians...

Here is a fresh update with the recent GG scandal from Socks.

And I'm off again to french-kiss a certain Xenomorph (no hand holding in this game).

Hey Vainamonoen or how you are. Do you remember the DDR? I guess not. Otherwise you would not promote these people. I would like to talk to you in reallife for a second, believe me! On a TAZ meeting...

Naturally, my wish to talk to you in real life is nonexistant, diademus. By the way, they're really missing you over in the BG forums. Nonetheless, have a great life!

That's an unfair expectation, especially given that the press has shown fringe elements as well. It's a common tactic to discredit any movement and I don't agree with him. Or with Van Ord who totally put his foot in his mouth when he said GG people were celebrating a transsexual dev's suicide.

Do you feel the need to post in this message board what i am writing on a different website ? See, you are nothing but a Stasi advocate but i dont realy care. I stand by what I say even in public. But maybe thats not someting you german new age marxists can understand. Who are you on the nwvault btw. ? I mean, wouldnt it be honest of you to tell the other side who you are or is cowardness your second name ?

And that Alex Lifschitz... his father is making millions in the military industrial complex. So he is a good representation of a human being who is for euqality and good things for society. Sure thing. Maybe his "community" ehm is advertizing this bs. all over the western world. But making money by the death of other people is not a good thing so how is that person you want to be associated with. See his video on YT where he tells people to abandon ethics for ideology and stuff. Great insight into their mind...that clown is not even a game developer. Just a over privileged clown using dadys money and an ideology being written down long before we all here were born! I hate the goy.. Vainamoen :D

The problem is, a leaderless movement doesn't just disband, it doesn't start easily as well. The bigger problem is what about the people who stuck their necks and careers out to support Gamergate as it is? I don't find that leaving them holding the bag is right, even if you could convince everyone, in fact the thought makes me feel like scum, no one convinced these people, they made the choice themselves.

I do agree with one thing I posted in the other thread. Quickest way to get rid of Gamergate is to call us on our 'bluff' and adopt and adhere to an Ethics Policy. Either we go away because mission accomplished, or the movement is proven to be a front for harassment, either way it sounds pretty win/win.

Granted, the same argument he makes could apply to Games Journalists, many outlets have proven corrupt, why don't they disband and come back as something potentially better? Ok, that might have been taking that too far.

It's especially unfair when you consider that the people giving the impression are the journalists that have their own corruption issues as a means of de-legitimizing the opposition.

The only reason why anybody is taking them more seriously than the GG folks is that the GG folks don't have the kind of cozy connections to the media that they do.
They could also just retract all the articles and delete all of the content they created and hope that we eventually forget how they were behaving. But, that's not going to happen either.

I do understand that some people do their jobs, but there's a large number that do not, and that's an issue. And not everyone has to be convinced, at least his tweet is about the actual issue at hand instead of just lumping us as misogynists...AGAIN. Hell, I'll admit that he can have his opinion of us, he's still fighting the same good fight, and I'm glad someone with the ability to is calling people out on their shit.

Didn't say otherwise. I'm talking about PR tactics. Fair or not, GG is forever tied to the campaign of harassment on Quinn and others. Once your brand is tainted it's hard to make a sale.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you did.

Taking some time off and rebranding would only allow the impression that GG is a hate movement to become cemented, though, and once that happens, any attempt to restart the whole thing under a different name would be painted as "a movement directly inspired by that Gamergate hate movement," same as GG is apparently tainted by the Quinnspiracy stuff. Do you really think the media that opposes GG would give us a free pass to scrutinize them all of a sudden? They'd do the same thing all over again, pointing out our worst members while failing to give any coverage to those on their side doing the exact same thing. The way I see it, our only real option is to push through and demonstrate that we're inclusive and anti-harassment while we have the momentum to make a real difference.

Starting fresh versus modifying what is, is a traditional political divide between radicals and progressives. I don't think there is an easy answer, it is too contextual. Consider these examples of possible "rebranding" ;)

Christianity is forever tied to its history of ...
Islam is forever tied to its history of ...
The USA is forever tied to its history of ...
Germany is forever tied to its history of ...
StingingVelvet is forever tied to his history of ...
227 is forever tied to his/hers history of ...

Humanity is forever tied to its history.
Or is it? There are these things called present and future. The past is the time we have less control over.
I tend to progressive in such questions, but admit to some radical impatience on some topics. Funny is, most nowadays would call such respect of what is, of culture and tradition conservative.

Specifically in this case, given it's an ideological conflict anyway, I believe it would be misguided to let the enemy define you. The history, the people and the connections: the past. It remains fixed to be used as weapon regardless of rebranding or not.