It's started. The hate grows. I have forseen it.

Seriously though, as I've stated before I don't like this movie much (I don't hate it either), but I will defend Abrams (mostly). I really think most of this movies problems come from higher up, and no one could have done much better under the circumstances. Just like the Marvel movies, the new Star Wars are planned by a commitee of executives at Disney, and the director is just hired to carry out a job and color within the lines.

I honestly think it could have been much better if done by Lucas and Abrams in tandem. As long as Lucas would be kept away from the director's chair and only provided ideas that others would execute (and possibly dispute should the ideas be midichlorian-level stupid), I think it would at least have been more interesting.

The Force Awakens isn't a badly directed movie, it's not badly cast or technically lacking. What it lacks is a vision and brave new ideas. And that's because the Disney-Marvel model it's following doesn't want any of those.

Phantom menace is badly directed. The crappy performance by the actors who can act better is the fault of the director. The scenes jumping without cohesion is the fault of director.
The overuse of cgi is the fault of director. cgi actors are the fault of director

Lucas is bad. Removing star wars from his hands saved the franchise and will allow it to grow.

Good thing he has nothing to do with it anymore.

LOL. Yes, it is. You're absolutely right. I meant The Force Awakens :D I was going to write something more about the Phantom Menace, and then I changed my mind, edited the post, and didn't realise how I messed up that sentence :D

The only thing I'm really interested in defending is Kylo Ren. So many people are asking why he isn't a horribly scarred monstrosity with a breathing mask to help his scorched larynx. I’ll admit that’s a pretty cool image, but it seems like EVERY Sith comes off an assembly line looking like that. It’s such a tired design that I find it refreshing to watch Ren’s reveal as this scared kid, a poorly trained Sith who can’t even make a functional lightsabre yet. Sith have to start somewhere, right? He has doubts about himself, doubts about the path he’s taken, and his youth contributes towards explosive tempers. He has more development than maybe any other bad guy in the Star Wars movies.

I think what really bothers them is that Han Solo didn't climb atop the remains of an entire Stormtrooper legion, his shirt bloodied and torn, the wind carrying his heartfelt goodbyes as his body finally succumbed to multiple laser blasts. Han Solo is such a legend within the fandom at this point, there isn't a death worthy of him.

Rylo Ken was the part where the movie quickly began to fall apart for me. Until then the Star Wars nostalgia glued it all together. He is rather a stereotype than a character. Honestly his appearance made me laugh and roll my eyes upsidedown.

Hey Jar Jar Abrams, found three commercials that are more fun to watch than your movie :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adZR-Pp_JO0

It's because if he's going to turn to the light side he has to be good looking. Good guys aren't ugly, everyone knows that.

Oh really? Would you fuck that? :P

I found Anakin very good looking. Yoda, on other hand, was hideous.

You know that for someone, somewhere
At lest Yoda was much more lifelike.

My two cents:

http://www.gog.com/forum/general/do_not_open_this_thread_before_watching_the_force_awakens_spoilers

Also, a friend just pointed THIS out to me, and I find it hillarious:

https://twitter.com/KyloR3n

I liked it. It felt like Star Wars and was a good movie in its own right. Abrams' Star Trek movies didn't feel like Star Trek, but he's a much better fit for sword-and-space fantasy like Star Wars and it shows.

Yes, the plot is similar to A New Hope. Oh well - it's a classic Hero's Journey plot, there are a ton of works that use something similar. The characters were different enough that it wasn't boring.

Rey and Finn are their own people with their own distinct arcs and personalities, not just a retread of Luke/Han.

Rey is clearly someone used to fighting, violence, hard choices and getting stuff done where sheltered Luke had to be gently introduced to violence and sacrifice. She learns throughout the movie that she has bigger responsibilities than herself and needs to think about/listen to other people, where Luke had to learn to set boundaries and take care of his priorities instead of just listening to his family/mentors. It's great to see a new type of hero being explored in Star Wars.

Finn's story has a ton of depth that I hope we see explored.

Kylo Ren is a new, interesting take on the Sith. Yes, he's a posturing, whiny, emo goth teen. That's totally deliberate. He's the mirror of Anakin Skywalker's fall. Kylo Ren is falling to the Dark Side because he only considers what he wants, where Anakin fell to the Dark Side because of his relationships with other people and wanting to protect them. IDK where people are getting the idea that Kylo Ren is less scary than Vader - Ren's clearly less controlled than Vader and way more likely to melt your face off in a temper tantrum.

The action is great. They're not obviously stage-fighting. They're actually fighting.

The characters were well done. Nothing was super surprising, but nothing rang false, and they weren't just recycled from previous movies. Even the recurring characters were handled well. The actors weren't obviously hampered by the directing, and the stronger actors pulled up the weaker ones.

The movie is set so far after the original trilogy that it left space for the Thrawn trilogy and the other good, early EU books, which is a definite plus. This had to be deliberate, and I really appreciate it.

The big weak point for me was the pacing and ideas. Too much happens too quickly, nothing really sinks in. The original trilogy balanced action with slower sections of world and character building. That was really important for how memorable they were. There's a lot in The Force Awakens, but we don't get enough time in the movie to unpack most of what's there.

TL;DR The Force Awakens is a great sequel to Star Wars and good movie on its own. It's a bit too actiony to be a good intro point to the series, probably over-correcting from the mistakes of the prequels. But it's a good Star Wars movie and I'm looking forward to following Rey's story.

But to the audience his temper tantrums are funny, not scary. To be scary for the audience the villain needs to be sinister, menacing, at the very least effective. Kylo does not seem to be very good at his job, and his angsty teen persona has no menace to it.

Yes, it's deliberate. But not to leave space for the old EU, but for the new one. There already are new books and comcis that fill this space, and more are coming.

Just watch it. Not the best SW movie ever made, but not the worst either. It feels more SW than any of the prequel stuff. I'm still digesting it, I might do a more detailed analysis later.

Anyway, I think I would order the movies like so:

The Empire Strikes Back
Return of the Jedi
A New Hope
The Force Awakens
Revenge of the Sith
Attack of the Clones
The Phantom Menace

How? There is no world building like in the two Lucas trilogies. No sense of immersion.

Correct. Episode VII make me feel that it has a deep lack of creativity. Great action movie, but bad science-fantasy movie.