I think we can sum up this discussion by repeating that to one another.

You're building a strawman where the it all comes down to that one, unimportant scene.

I haven't a clue what you mean.

I think that giddiness might explain why you're in denial over this thing.

There is nothing broad about it, no handwaving. You're just being fooled by extranous detail. A member of a resistance group hides secret information in a droid. The droid falls into the hands of a force sensitive orphan on a desert planet. The orphan and the droid are pursued by Imperial soldiers and make their escape in the MIllenium Falcon. There is a old guy, a veteran general from a great war who the young orphan looks up to, who has a personal connection to the mask wearing force user villain who ends up killing him after the old guy sabotages the planet-shaped weapon of mass destruction during a rescue mission to save a female main character being (unsuccesfully) interrogated by the villain. The second villain is a high ranking military officer in command of the base. The climax of the movie is a battle of fighters over the Death Star while trying to exploit it's one weakness, leading to the base's destruction.

That's this movie, and this still isn't even a full list.This isn't some "good guys vs bad guys and there are lightsabres and a space battle" vague, general similarity.

Yes, they changed some things around. Merged some characters at some points, switched the order of things. But it does not change the fact, that when it comes right down to it it's the exact same plot. Yes, there are some new elements, but those are mostly not very important. It does not matter whether somethin like the damn garbage scene is there or not. Just because they didn't copy every scene doesn't mean they didn't copy the story plot point for plot point.

Yes. Inception is exactly as similar to Wrath of Khan as Episode VII is to IV. You know, I think you're just trolling at this point.

Hey guys,

Finally got around to seeing this today. I unfortunately had to endure the "Cinematic experience" that is so valued. It appeared to involve them forgetting to turn the lights off, causing me to have to run out to tell someone and miss the opening text. It left me a little disoriented at the start because I didn't know the intro.

Then I got into the film (while occassionally being kicked in the back by the person behind with their feet up on the chair). I have to say that Rey and Finn are great. It was really promising to start with, and I really felt it building. I loved the way they made Finn really neurotic, and there was genuine weakness to his character. Then at some point they just cocked it up.

I think it started when the bad guy took his mask off (Kylo Ren?), but there were other things. Why the dark lord "snuke" (that name, really?) existed at all, why the first order came into being. It felt like they were trying to recreate the environment from the first film where we were thrown into a chaotic universe, but it wasn't like that. It's a known universe now, and they seemed to be leaving out a load of key plot in order to make a different film. The problem being that without it this one felt like a bit of a showpiece. I think once they got onto the falcon, and properly got into the plot, it became apparent they didn't really know how to make that into a proper film.

They also fell into the same trap of having a sideshow in the spaceship fight. It failed in Phantom Menace, and it failed again here.

I hope there'll be some interim film (probably animated, given Hamil isn't exactly invested in the project) to explain why Luke allowed a new Sith Lord to rise.

And of course, the idea of a guy, that is strong enough with the force to hold a blaster shot in mid air, is beaten by untrained people who've picked up a lightsaber is stupid.

Overall, good main characters, good acting at the core (bit parts were dubious), but really fell flat later on. Most cons listed here I agree with.

I mean Superman Returns was not as good as, well, anything.

I was just going to say the same about you.

my spoiler free review of episode 7 which I saw tonight:

- It's shit

Pretty much. I didn’t see this as a bad thing in terms of what the movie was trying to accomplish, which is to re-establish Star Wars. It’s been ten years since the last movie, and around twenty-seven since Return of the Jedi. The Force Awakens is a sequel to classic Star Wars, so they had to rekindle the feel of those movies while introducing a new generation to that side of the franchise. The characters have been set up, their motivations are known (but there’s still plenty of mysteries to be solved), and the next movie will either take it in a fresh direction and contribute to that universe, or fail to take any risks and attempt to ride the coattails of the originals.

There are already theories circulating. You’ll notice when Kylo Ren was given some bad news, he only unleashes his temper at the off-hand mention of a ‘girl.’ Why? It made no sense. Unless he knows who she is.

Doesn't change the fact he should have chopped Finn in half in a moment.

Here are some things about the Force that have already been established:

1. Force-sensitive people can sense other force-sensitive people. This was established in the original trilogy. (I believe Darth Vader could sense Luke Skywalker.) Kylo Ren could presumably sense Rey in some form.

2. Princess Leia is force-sensitive. There is a scene in the orignal trilogy where Luke calls out to Han Solo (no response) and then to Leia (who realizes that Luke is calling her). The fact that Leia could sense Luke's call indicates that she is force-sensitive, and that she could have been trained as a Jedi, had society's attitudes towards women at the time of the original trilogy's release been different.

3. Force-sensitive is inherited. This should be obvious when you know the relationship between Luke and Darth Vader.

One question: Why could Finn use the lightsaber? As far as we know, Finn is not force-sensitive, and don't you need to be force-sensitive to use a lightsaber effectively?

Of note: Being black doesn't prevent someone from being force-sensitive; in the prequel trilogy, the Jedi council (which presumably consists solely of Jedi, who are necessarily force-sensitive) contains a black man.

I have no idea why this point is of note, care to elaborate? As you say, Mace Windu was black, I don't think there's been any suggestion of this being a point.

Are you suggesting that Finn might also be force sensitive? There was that scene where Kylo Ren saw him on the battlefield, and where he knew who the betrayer was immediately...

Well, him being force sensitive would be the only explanation, given what we currently know, of why he could use the lightsaber. (Either that, or being force sensitive is not, in fact, necessary to wield a lightsaber.)

In any case, I think this movie created more questions than it answered, so there is room for there to be answers in Episodes 8 and 9 when they come out.

I know, and as I said I don't hate the movie. I just think they overdid it. I was absolutely ok with it when Poe was hiding the data in his droid and sending it away. I though it's a nice nod the original and all that. But then it just kept piling up... I think there was some balance to be found between the old and the new, and they failed to find it. Like the article I linked before, I don't think it's a terrible movie, but it is surprisingly uninteresting because of that. I really hope the next episode has an identity of it's own, because if it really ends up being a rehash of Empire Strikes Back there will be no justifying it then, and no point in watching it. There are some new and interesting thing here to build on, and that should be the focus.

I'm afraid it will end up being theories trying to justify something that really is just bad writing. The thing with the "girl" might just as well be nothing but him being pissed off hearing that his men were thwarted by a girl. That's how I took it while watching, and didn't think any more of it.

I really think the best explanation, whether it's intended or not, is that while Kylo is powerful, he isn't very good at what he does.

General Grevious says "no".

Yeah, i noticed that too. There is a big gap and nothing has been explained so far and I don't think they will in the upcoming sequels. They don't explain anything about the Republic, resistance and the First Order. Where are the old imperial officers and soldiers? I just saw a bunch of young people running around, no experienced soldiers and generals (or whatver ranks). I already forgot the name of the commander of the First Order (who has a few conflicts with Kylo Ren in the movie). He is absolutely forgettable, he has no special presence on screen or any interesting aspects.
Obviously there are more missing explanations, like Leia's role and how she got it, background information about Luke or the political history of the galaxy in general... etc.

It appears they are relying solely on books and comics to fill in those blanks. Which yeah, it's a good way to sell their new Expanded Universe, but it's a shit way to make a movie. Among the many things Episode IV did so very right all those years ago, was how effortlessly and clearly it established the situation and all the key players in that, completely new then, universe. Force Awakens on the other hand leaves the audience adrift and clueless, even though this time around it's a familiar universe we already know, so it should be all the easier to establish what's what.

You don't have to be Force sensitive to use a lightsaber. It's simply a melee weapon (but one that will fuck you up if you make a mistake) and as we saw in the movie there were Stormtroopers with melee weapons/riot gear who were well trained, so it's entirely possible Finn was trained in melee combat before getting his hands on a lightsaber.

Just throwing in....

Left the cinema when the final battle took place, stopped at that point carrying about the movie at all.

Same happened with Star Trek: Into Darkness, though that movie was REALLY abyssal, SW7 on the other hand is just not interesting.

I think at this point J J Abrams is probably the most overrated director in mainstream

Also can someone please finally teach J J Abrams how to make a villain that is NOT a two-dimensional character?

P.S.
And I can`t think of a single moment, when the music got my attention, could not even tell if there was music at all.

@TinyE, I found your donkey. He followed me back home.

I went to see episode VII on opening night. It's a very forgettable movie. It's bad much like Star Trek Into Darkness was bad IMO.

Jar Jar Abrams just can't do this right. The movie is mediocre as a work of labor. Pacing is all over the place. The plot is as contrived as possible. Humor oscillates between fanservice and millennial.

The main characters have no character. One is a Mary Sue, other is a token comedy relief. Completely void of depth or development.

This movie will always be compared to the prequels, because it can't be compared to the original trilogy. It's at prequel quality level.

I wanted to like this movie. Fuck you Abrams.