Great. Slowly a more coherent picture is emerging. Vote sent.

Definitely don't dismiss the other possibilities. The fact that someone now thinks Dedo, who passed a fascist policy is now somehow more liberal by extension shows that you are not thinking very straight.

If he were a fascist on a team with Scene but not Brasas, we get the same results. Or if Brasas felt the heat and decided to pass a liberal policy to remove it, same result because they now want everyone to vote them into government.

But in some people's "infinite wisdom" you are now confirming both of them...

We got our 4th policy...continue with the plan which has always been the Greek/Lift government where we might learn something...

By the way, the odds of us liberals winning with the scorched earth plan (i.e. voting down every government from this point out) = 15/22 = 68.2%

Odds of winning before 3F IF all 4 members of the governments are indeed liberals (and not Hitler) = 85/121 = 70.2%

What are the odds zeo made everyone a liberal, as a joke? (hmmm... would be fun to do that in a real mafia game. All townies, no scum, and knock off people randomly at night).

By the way, this game has a nice negative feedback loop. The more we're winning, the less liberal cards are there and vice versa.

First off, liberals should not lie or deceive because playing such games make other liberals question where your loyalties lie.
Second, my game was to make it painfully obvious that passing a fascist policy wouldn't work well for them because they lose all wiggle room and their scum team is nailed down. So even at 3L2F, they were never going to get a chance to win because they would be locked out of government. Thus, their only choice was to pass a liberal policy and hope to have enough influence to still win.

So what did we really learn?

1) It opens up the possibility that Brasas is just a misguided liberal. That Scene and Dedo's plan only went as far as Dedo's nomination probably because all 3 of Adalia/Brasas/Blotunga are liberal under this scenario. Brasas supporting Dedo would just be Brasas being Brasas. In which case, the likely scum team is Scene/Dedo/Kusu + the secret Hitler. I'm basing this on the fact that both Scene and Dedo supported Kusu's government way back when.

2) If Brasas is a fascist, it probably means I was right and their secret Hitler is very well placed. It also suggests I was right about the general composition of their scum team because if I was far off, they would have been more likely to pass the fascist policy because I missed something important.

Zfr said the following on the previous page.

"I think I'll vote NO too. If we're going the route blotunga suggested I'd rather you go first and kusu (or scene?) picks dedo."

Do you find this disturbing (considering kusu or scene for president at this point) or is it a legit line of play for liberals?

Ooohhh the smart one tries to catch me! I meant *if*. If we're going to need another government with dedo the way blotunga suggested, I'd rather it was after you.

Yes, but why kusu or scene? Kusu is unknown, scene isn't confirmed and if we don't win with my presidency, we'll have enough info on Lift. Only if Lift is confirmed fascist, does your line of play make sense.

Ah, I see what you mean. No, I wasn't thinking about the president when I made that post. I picked kusu because he's next and added scene in brackets with a question mark as an "if kusu disagrees". But Lift is good (if your government doesn't show otherwise).

I think picking Dedo is completely foolish in any scenario. He is the only one to actually pass a fascist policy. He is not confirmed by extension. If he were fascist, he was pressured to pick one of Adalia or Brasas to investigate. We have no idea if he decided to tell the truth to throw us off, or lie hoping for the best. And if Dedo is fascist and Brasas liberal, he'd know that was a mistake on my part, so declaring Brasas a confirmed liberal was a way to take some pressure off himself while trying to discredit me.

I did miss a possibility under the Brasas might actually be liberal option...
Since their choices after Dedo were me/Adalia/Brasas and didn't include Blotunga, it is possible he could be the third wheel instead. I was liking Kusu more, but this short-sighted nomination of Dedo starts to make me wonder.

In either scenario, Dedo is at the bottom of the list for any government. Even Scene ranks higher as his main issue was his support for Dedo..

And I don't know why we are even talking about presidents other than you or Lift until proven otherwise. If you draw an L, and Lift is Hitler, he is forced to dispute you, then we can discuss the ramifications. If you claim 3F, we then may have to wonder about you. But it's rather unlikely both of you are fascists. And we learn a lot from a dispute as it exposes Hitler.

I see no reason to go any other route than Greek and Lift as the next two presidents. I don't 100% trust them but they would both need to pass a F policy before we need to worry about Hitler, at which point we can worry about Hitler.

If they don't do that, we win home and dry. No reason to risk testing Kusu or even trying scene again.

If the odds are not in our favour or it turns out one of them is Hitler then we get to the other end of the player list and have to start thinking about who is and isn't trustworthy.

I'm not usually one to tell "I told you so" but... well, you know how it goes.


Man, there's no fooling you, is there?


I agree with this. I don't see a better line of play at this stage.

Well, dedo at least apparently didn't lie. He reported his read correctly, so his credibility rose a bit. Also with Brasas having drawn 1L, dedo having drawn 3F is possible. Of course that doesn't prove anything about dedo and no one said it did. He just looks more liberal that before, since the 'lying' part is off the table. Of course a fascist could have decided to report a truthful read. But your second line about Brasas 'feeling the heat and passing the 4-th liberal policy' looks a bit like you're a fascist grasping for straws. I don't think a fascist would risk passing the 4-th liberal policy when they themselves have only 1 policy in play and are nowhere near the 'winning by Hitler' territory.

Also, you didn't reply what you think of Greek now, that he participated in his third liberal-passing government. He got 1F1L - and with the bad standing that Brasas had before, he could easily have passed 1F and laid the blame for it on Brasas. So a fascist-Greek would not have had any reason to pass the 4-th liberal policy.

Personally, I would rate Greek as quite surely liberal now. Brasas as probably liberal too. dedo as kind of neutral.

Seems like scene is again asleep.

*poke, poke*

Mr. Scene? Your vote is needed!