It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
-----
PART 9/?
-----
avatar
Coreda: If those who actually cared about physical for PC had made more noise about higher capacity (and cheap) formats like BD there may have been some movement on this. However the ship sailed a while ago anyway.
Are you nuts, biased or just deluded and / or uninformed? /s
This ship never sailed.
Remind me, how long has BD been available on GENERAL (non archival) market? Less than 20 years.
How about DVD? Or CD?
Heck, how old are Vinyls? But you do still have new releases on Vinyls now without sane justification for it.

It may be slightly unknown fact but BD disks cost about as much as DVD to produce.
Even more, most DVD pressing machines are either just stright out compatible or can be cheaply made to be able to press BD.

BD is right now actually cheaper for the industry than DVD, especially per GiB.
While there are reasons to keep CD around the DVD should already die.
The only real reason why BD are not so popular on CONSUMER MARKET is because some responsible people have retarded approach about it.
And don't even get me started on arbitrary price gouging.
If BD films would be sold for as much as DVD ones it would spread really fast.
The price gouging alone is one of the main reasons why this storage media is not so popular among film enthusiasts for example (to be clear, TRUE ones will go for QUALITY so they WILL buy them over DVD, but casual average-joe ones will NOT due to cost).

That is the commercial market AKA "disks sold with data on them".

But in archival industry BD are booming. Do you really think somebody would sanely choose stack of 25 DVDs over 1 BDXL ?
ESPECIALLY since BD use different technology than DVD (DVD have organic layers, suspectible to oxidation, disk rot, chemical reactions with air, as well as reacting with plasticiser from DVD cases, BD use non organic layers so they are not suspectible to most problems) and thus have better longetivity.

There are already 1 TiB prototype BD disks in research labs.
Do you really think archival industry would just drop the technology and downgrade to DVD?
For longterm storage you just cannot use hard drives. It's just too darn inconvenient (drives die, controllers die, write heads can randomly get stuck on platters after years of failless usage, platters demagnetise even when connected to power, random neutrino can make a bit flip, one powerful solar [the kind that is once few dozen years] flare could be enough to destroy a backup [or at least damage it enough to be useless]).
Tapes are another kind of pain that could warrant writing entire books about it.
The optical media is the only way to go if you want to have longterm cold storage backup.
At least until somebody invents something better, like Blade Runner like 3d data orbs or some sort of nonmagnetic nonorganic high density physically durable storage media.
The optical media right now has about as much longetivity as metal punch in cards. It's not magnetic so apart from physical damage and reflective layer deterioration there isn't really any way to loose it other time.

Do you really think with increased storage needs (thus increased longterm COLD STORAGE needs) the industry would not make BD more popular over time? (they do push high volumes of those disks you know)

avatar
Coreda: (eg: Playism, which is exclusively DRM-free)
After somebody brought Playism into this thread I researched it (honestly, I knew about it before but either didn't research it before or forgot about it).
It isn't (but generally is):

(note that this includes bundles [afaik], separate soundtracks and few other "non game" things on this list)
https://playism.com/products?&filter%5Bsort%5D=priceLow
(without this sorting it just doesn't show the number)

https://playism.com/products?&filter%5BtermFilter%5D%5B%5D=46

Total of 228 positions out of which there is 204 positions with DRM-free builds.
Example of Steam key only one:
https://playism.com/product/will-a-wonderful-world
https://playism.com/product/angels-of-death
(random games, right off the front page from bestsellers category, I don't know these ones)

I didn't make a complete research and / or page crawl yet but I haven't seen ANYWHERE on Playism site any kind of claims that 1.It is "all" DRM-free 2.That developer HAS TO provide DRM-free build to them.
It's entirely up to the developer to choose on that platform. Most provide DRM-free builds but there ARE some oddballs that stand out and don't do that.
Of course it doesn't undermine the whole Playism.
I am thankful somebody brought it to this thread and reminded me about it.
It is both the kind of store I would genuinely want to buy from.
As well as the kind of digital distribution platform I would personally choose should I ever decide to get my game projects out of infinite project freezer.

avatar
MysterD: If they make GOG Galaxy separate from GOG "Legacy" - well, "Legacy" could wind-up like GOG Downloader: pretty much dead and eventually phased out.
If they would make it open source then it wouldn't matter if they would even abandon it.
That's the beauty of open source. Should there anybody want one could just fork it and continue development.
If GOG would merely "just" make API documentation public and expose a function to json checksums it would ALREADY make a WORLD OF DIFFERENCE and very likely result in SOMEBODY private from community cooking up software for file obtainment (AKA new, better than ever, OPEN SOURCE GOG downloader alternative).

avatar
MysterD: I think they really need to be clear from GOG's Own Games are DRM-FREE for when you're accessing GGO's Game via Galaxy (and also on the GOG website); and that other stores (like Epic) may have DRM in them (or not) - since GOG themselves are going down this path.
I think what I described would work (at least from software perspective).
Because if they continue with their CURRENT way then they are going to eventually have a meet-up at a PR graveyard.
high rated
The final pillar is collapsing.
Oh gog gog...
Disappointed.
avatar
B1tF1ghter: Care to elaborate how you do that (forum link maybe?)? Especially the first part?
I don't know enough about editing installer files to directly edit them.

So what I do is install the game, copy the entire game folder to where I install my games. Then go into the game's folder and delete files that are not needed such as Galaxy files, document files etc.

Then I'll uninstall the game and try launching it. It usually works fine but if the game doesn't work because it needs registry entries then ill load up regedit and find those entries, save them then put them in the game's folder then all I need to do is to run the registry file should I have to re-install it.

Finally I'll zip up the folder and put it somewhere safe for backup.
avatar
B1tF1ghter: Care to elaborate how you do that (forum link maybe?)? Especially the first part?
avatar
RoboPond: I don't know enough about editing installer files to directly edit them.

So what I do is install the game, copy the entire game folder to where I install my games. Then go into the game's folder and delete files that are not needed such as Galaxy files, document files etc.

Then I'll uninstall the game and try launching it. It usually works fine but if the game doesn't work because it needs registry entries then ill load up regedit and find those entries, save them then put them in the game's folder then all I need to do is to run the registry file should I have to re-install it.

Finally I'll zip up the folder and put it somewhere safe for backup.
So essentially you could as well unpack the installer, check the file / dir / registry creation rules and create your own installer.
If you would know how to that is.
That is easily done with Linux scripting (you could even make Linux script to install you Windows game for Windows usage [along with creating proper registry entries], no joke) minus the unpack part (installers vary, some GOG ones are actually encrypted, ergo GRID [at least it used to be, I didn't check in a while]).
Post edited October 07, 2020 by B1tF1ghter
avatar
mrkgnao: Just an update from my side.

Reminder: I had contacted GOG support about it on September 15. Heard nothing from them for more than two weeks.

This Saturday, a day after posting here, I got an email from GOG support, telling me that they have forwarded the matter to another department --- and closing the ticket, which is a common GOG tactic of "solving problems" without actually solving them. I reopened the ticket.

As of today, the offline installers have not yet been updated vis-a-vis galaxy.
avatar
Pajama: Seems I was lucky with my support person as they told me that they were keeping the ticket open until the offline update was here and that they would update me when it was available for download. I've not heard anything so far and like you say no update either but I will ask again at the end of the week.
They've finally updated it today (to 1.8.1). One down, 30+ to go.
avatar
mrkgnao: They've finally updated it today (to 1.8.1). One down, 30+ to go.
Just downloading now, lets hope the promised 1.9.2 is not so long in coming :)
avatar
§pectre: In what way? The two common and fairly weak complaints are exclusive deals and China money.
The only other I can think of is the claims it looked at some steam data directly instead of doing it indirectly like steam does with outside data.
avatar
adamhm: Well, I'm unaware of Valve ever bribing companies to renege on prior agreements in the way that Epic has done in their attempts to get ever more exclusives. "Hey Kickstarter backers, we know you took a risk to help us get this game done and expected to get Steam/GOG/whatever keys, but Epic paid us for exclusivity so you can now go fuck yourselves!"

Then there's companies advertising on other platforms during development, only for Epic to then swoop in closer to release and make them a deal for exclusivity, screwing over the platforms that spent resources helping to advertise and build up hype for them. (though in fairness the publishers of these games also share some of the blame for lacking integrity and accepting the Epic exclusivity deal)

And then there are stories of developers being offered an Epic exclusivity deal, declining due to prior arrangements and not wanting to be massive dicks and then basically being told their game won't be allowed on the Epic store at all then.
That's a problem with kickstarter or the other companies themselves. Buying out or undercutting is something steam's done too. Ironically games pulled away from steam have a better chance to show up here.
So it's not anymore anticonsumer than steam on that aspect.

Speaking of exclusivity, Epic are hypocritical about that too, whining about needing more openness and freedom in the PC space and yet limiting people's freedom with their exclusives. They've been hypocritical about a lot of other things as well...

Valve at least have done/are doing some good things for the industry at large, things that haven't been purely for their own benefit. In the Linux world Valve have put considerable resources into things they could have restricted or limited to only benefit themselves if they wanted to, yet they didn't. Things like Proton and DXVK making Wine so much better, the Steam runtime [which despite its name is merely a collection of Ubuntu libraries providing a common target for developers] etc. Valve have also contributed many improvements to the Linux kernel, Linux graphics drivers, they've greatly supported development of the Vulkan API and development tools for it, amongst other things. The tech details for Steam hardware was made available allowing third party/community developers to easily create tools for them without having anything to do with Steam, e.g. https://github.com/kozec/sc-controller
Which is why I said they have done done worse but have better features but is it for our benefit our theirs. Are they the nice guys but still being good at business or are they just doing enough to stay on the right side of popular opinion.
The start of Steam wasn't anywhere near as good. You would probably remember if you were there for it.

Linux benefits steam against M$ but they bought out github. Was that for the benefit of githubs cattle or M$?
Where are the tech details for their hardware anyway?
high rated
Epic Fail Store and Scheme are both awful for DRM-free gaming. The "lesser of two evils" is still an "evil". I don't even know what GOG (referring to the company that runs BOTH the website and the "optional" client with new DRMed game webstore app) could say at this point to reassure our worries about their future as a DRM-free gaming platform.
high rated
avatar
rjbuffchix: I don't even know what GOG could say at this point to reassure our worries about their future as a DRM-free gaming platform.
"That was a stupid idea, and we sent the people responsible to the mines."?
avatar
rjbuffchix: I don't even know what GOG could say at this point to reassure our worries about their future as a DRM-free gaming platform.
avatar
toxicTom: "That was a stupid idea, and we sent the people responsible to the mines."?
"They returned with a huge pile of gold and bought us out and consequently continued their idea" /s
Post edited October 07, 2020 by B1tF1ghter
My question is why would GOG work with such an Anti-Consumer company like Epic knowing thanks to their PC exclusives prevented sales of games to them not just Steam at the game's launch? It must have been a very good contract for both companies especially GOG to even negotiate such a contract.
Post edited October 08, 2020 by Fender_178
avatar
§pectre: The only other I can think of is the claims it looked at some steam data directly instead of doing it indirectly like steam does with outside data.
avatar
B1tF1ghter: How about destroying the entire industry from the inside? (I could easily write a wall of text as to how)
Also, it's not just claims, it has been proven.
And big data consequences are of practically infinite number and severity.
Data is worth MUCH MUCH more than EGS looses (potentially) from giving things away for "free".
What is Epic doing to destroy it from the inside out?
How did they spy on this information?

Most other stores are doing it too from gog to steam and those that are in its games to the game engines like Unity grabbing what they think they can get away with.
high rated
avatar
§pectre: That's a problem with kickstarter or the other companies themselves. Buying out or undercutting is something steam's done too. Ironically games pulled away from steam have a better chance to show up here.
So it's not anymore anticonsumer than steam on that aspect.
Epic offers these deals knowing it'll screw people such as Kickstarter backers; they just don't care. The other companies are at fault too for being so greedy & lacking in integrity to accept such deals, but that doesn't excuse Epic.
Epic offers these deals knowing it'll screw the other platforms that helped promote the games in question prior to release; but that's what they're counting on.

avatar
§pectre: Which is why I said they have done done worse but have better features but is it for our benefit our theirs. Are they the nice guys but still being good at business or are they just doing enough to stay on the right side of popular opinion.
The start of Steam wasn't anywhere near as good. You would probably remember if you were there for it.
Oh I remember all too well. I remember when Steam came about I wanted nothing to do with it, or any other DRM for that matter (I had already resisted Windows XP & held on to Win98SE until about 2003 due to its DRM, but eventually I was forced to use it due to hardware compatibility issues with a laptop). I remember texting my brother during a free period in college when I found out that Half-Life 2 would require activation via Steam and his initial disbelief at it (he subsequently cancelled his pre-order). I remember the shenanigans Valve pulled back then, how terrible Steam was and how everyone hated both them and Steam, and the repeated disappointment as more and more games started becoming Steam-only. As bad as they were they were not quite as bad as Epic has been, aside from being pioneers of the current state of affairs regarding DRM and client-bound everything.

avatar
§pectre: Linux benefits steam against M$ but they bought out github. Was that for the benefit of githubs cattle or M$?
Where are the tech details for their hardware anyway?
GOG and others have benefitted from a lot of the work Valve have done. GitHub seems to have been going downhill since they decided that meritocracy is a bad thing anyway, and there are alternatives. Don't know where the hardware specs are posted as I've not needed them for anything myself.

This is all besides the point anyway - GOG partnering with any DRM'ed store to sell games for them is a terrible idea and goes against what GOG used to stand for.
avatar
rjbuffchix: I don't even know what GOG could say at this point to reassure our worries about their future as a DRM-free gaming platform.
avatar
toxicTom: "That was a stupid idea, and we sent the people responsible to the mines."?
"In hindsight, encouraging our senior management staff to do hard drugs during important meetings wasn't such a good idea after all..."
Post edited October 08, 2020 by adamhm
avatar
Fender_178: My question is why would GOG work with such an Anti-Consumer company like Epic knowing thanks to their PC exclusives prevented sales of games to them not just Steam at the game's launch? It must have been a very good contract for both companies especially GOG to even negotiate such a contract.
Is the enemy of the enemy my friend or my enemy?
avatar
adamhm: GitHub seems to have been going downhill since they decided that meritocracy is a bad thing anyway.
Can you please elaborate a bit on this, even though it's off topic? I know what GitHub is, but otherwise I have no idea what you're referring to and I'm curious.