I don't really think it was quite as unbalanced as you think... but I will admit, having been the guy that Vitek went to for balancing etc. that I did say that it would be a tough game (for any side) to win and that town were slightly weaker than usual. But considering winning as town is generally piss easy (in my experience so far), I thought it wasn't a bad thing for town to be slightly weaker.

I really loved the parity cop, a normal cop I feel is too overpowered, particularly once they get revealed and everyone else just stops thinking and phones it in. As parity cop, with a N0 action, my day 1 would have been spent hounding the target I had investigated. If you had managed to lynch Krypsyn you would have had your baseline day 1 as you would have had a flip, and if you didn't manage that you might at least have had an idea of their alignment. As it was you got that baseline anyway when he was NK'd, but only once you had used a scan on someone else anyway.
That being said, I think you played it pretty well and in general chose some good targets (if you hadn't chosen RWarehall I'm not sure he would have been lynched as he didn't have too much suspicion on him)

I think the Arsonist guard could probably have done with a little more thought, but my assistance to Vitek was pretty fleeting, given some more time to discuss it we might have realised the potential for confusion, but to be honest I doubt either of us could have foreseen the turn of events that occurred..

As for Sage, I'm not entirely sure why she brought Krypsyn back to life (if you'd care to share I'd love to know) but I did envision the Zombie Maker saving it for bringing the cop back to life... or a townie back when the game is nearly done.

Seems pretty balanced IMHO.

1) If all factions were equally balanced it would be 1/3 chance for each. I estimated town's chances in this setup as 1/5 - 1/4. So I'm not saying we had no chance, just that yes, a shift from 1/3 to 1/4 is significant.

2) I actually really like the idea of the parity cop as well in principle, however I can't quite agree it was balanced right here. Kryp getting shot was very useful, but I still had to rule out insanity, multiple factions, and roles that could false-read. Anyone paying attention may note that I voted for Kryp on D1. My argument in-game was that "he voted for himself" but my real reason was "Hey, it would be reeaaaally useful if he did get lynched!"

Likewise, I briefly considered hounding Cristi in D2 when Trent threw FoS on her. I didn't really think she was scum, but again, her death would have been useful at that point in proving sanity. Flub made that happen overnight (I'd picked her because I thought she was a likely scum target), and voila, I was in a much better place but only through a hell of a lot of luck.

At least 1 of those variables needed to be off the table for the parity cop to be balanced. Obviously you can't tell the cop there are no screw-job roles, so if there are factions>2, I think the cop has to know s/he is sane off the bat. Otherwise there's just way too much tail chasing.

Alternatively you need a game designed around lasting more days so the cop has time to work through those possibilities.

3) As the investigator, I had no problem with Sage making that play. At the time it seemed very likely that even if she had banked it to try and bring me back, and lived long enough to use it the chance that I would have anything useful to say seemed slim. On D1/D2/D4 I had absolutely zero info of any value. That's not to say I needed to know who scum was, but I didn't even have "Yes, X is town!" on those three days.

As an aside, if Vitek had mod-killed sage on the final day and she flipped town, I would absolutely have no-lynched and gone for the Prisoner's Dilemma / Mexican standoff. But with her on the table, she was an uncontrolled variable and it was at least possible she was the scum.

As I was driving home Sunday night, I was all certain I had Yog/Flub right where I needed them, and then Yog made just an audacious claim, even when it was pretty clear I probably hadn't investigated him.

The trouble was that his move meant I had to weigh at least some possibility that Sage was scum. Why? Compare her credentials and Flub's side by side:

Both claimed early with no pressure to claim
Both claimed roles that had at least some screwiness to them (town guard, rez)
Both played relatively smart, clean games after that, at least until Flub melted down in the last day.

And ultimately, while listening to yog brag about winning with an insanely daring bluff on top of a lay-low for two nights gambit will be bad enough, it would have been infinitely worse if he was telling true and got to gloat about helping an SK win and being the survivor in that scenario, no?

I like Krypsyn. I think he adds a lot to the game. I was very very tired of the going back and forth over a double voters or why does it imply maybe so many players to vote too. I was also hoping to use my power and then get NK to help town. Maybe I should have play different. But it is what it is. This is most likely my last game. So why not enjoy it.

Fair enough. Reading through the scum thread it looks like it almost worked to draw the NK (I only skimmed it though so I'm not sure how serious a contender you might have been), it just puzzled me why you used it so early.

Your last game? You quitting on us? :(

So, my thoughts on the game.

First – I want to congratulate all the players and thank everyone for a great game. This is without question the most fun Mafia game that I’ve ever played – and I think it will be very hard to top this experience. There were so many highs and lows it was like an endless roller coaster. I enjoyed it thoroughly every step of the way, and it makes me very happy to play with such a diverse and passionate cast of characters such as yourselves. For all the kvetching and joking, it’s the balance of personalities and how we all interact that make any game fun, not just this one.

I am not here to gloat or be obnoxious. Reading through the post-game comments and the observer thread, my heart sunk quite a bit. It’s what took me so long to post anything. I’m sorry if what I do and the way I do it are so distasteful to so many. Even in a game like this, where, as Scum virtually everything I did was for the sake of theater and mis-direction. I admit it’s tough to finish a marathon like this and then after it’s over find out just how much everyone from all factions was rooting for you to – and confident you would - fail. I really gave it my best. I don’t want to take anything away from anyone else. There were some truly fantastic plays made out there, and some wonderful twists. I’ll note some of them individually in a bit. At the end of the day, it was a long and incredibly difficult fight, and although the world of GOG Forum Mafia is tiny and insigficant, I’m still happy. When it was all over, my wife (who has been following along the last several days) gave me a smooch and told me she was proud of me for killing all the good guys, and that’s what does it for me :)

The only other thing I’d like to say about how I played, was that I was especially happy that I was able to win the game playing it the way I did. Whenever the safe Scum play was to be invisible, I drew attention to myself. If the “correct” Scum play was to sit back and let Town lynch themselves, I made a pro-active attempt to personally shepherd the lynch. If the best advice Scum could get would be to make a safe, conservative, quiet play – instead I jumped up and flipped the entire table upside down. No matter how it may have been criticized or perceived, it’s the beauty of the gambit that makes it all worthwhile. It was Mr. Meyow’s audacious play in #22 that turned me into a Mafia player in the first place. Without him, I wouldn’t be here. If my reputation as a Forum Mafia player is permanently set as a poor player… it may be time for a little soul-searching.

Back in a bit to hand out some cookies.

Wut? No.

I agree. One of the most entertaining games I have followed, I'm sad I sat it out...

As for your play, I was literally stunned when I realised you were the last scum. You played it exceptionally well, and I don't think I will ever trust you again ;)
At first I thought you were town, as the role you claimed was suspiciously close to one Vitek had discussed as a possible inclusion (Hider), then I realised that it wasn't and you must have been scum.
The only reason I rooted for flub, was that his role reveal, and the fact that everyone bought it, was brilliant. I wanted the arsonist to win anyway as it's usually pretty difficult to do so, but once he pulled that there was no way I couldn't wish him to win. Your gambit in the end was similarly brilliant, and while it would have been hilarious if you and flub had shot each other and town had won, I'm glad it didn't end like that.
I wouldn't worry too much about what was said (and I'm sure I probably said some of it), I will admit that I do find your play irritating at times (same as you find JMich's) but I think you're a great player and it's just a clash of playstyles (to be honest I think it's the fact that you always think you know best... cause clearly I always know best ;))
Besides, as most people saw you as town saying that your play was bad doesn't really count as bad town play is often good scum play...
And in the end you did manage to convince bler and Sage that you might have been telling the truth and won, so you must have done something right.

I believe you are thinking of HijacK.

Lol, him too :)
But you've got to admit yogs has a touch of it too...

agentcarr – had me absolutely nailed at the end of Day 1. Probably because he didn’t have prior experiences playing with me (which I was leaning on heavily) to compare against. I had to do some fast dancing Day 2 to try and distract him away from me. I enjoyed his overall play style and humor well. Cookie for you.

bler – Without a doubt, Town MVP for my money. As a rookie? You’ve got to be kidding me. He had a rough start trying to get his bearings, but turned it around with one smart, creative play after another. By the end of the game I felt like I was never going to be able to shake him. Fortunately for me, I figured out that his logic was good enough that the only way to get past him would be to convince him there was at least a chance I didn’t have a nightkill, and then lead him to conclude that he had to lynch flub to have a chance to win. It was very touch-and-go, and I just got more and more respect for him as the game went on. My favorite player in the game for sure. I truly hope he comes back. Cookie for you. PS: Please, nobody mention to him that he would have won if he had no-lynched. I fear he might harm himself.

Bookwyrm – Let the mutual admiration society begin. There were so many times during the game I was laughing, just imagining what he would be saying over in the observer thread. I swear to you, when Leonard flipped Town, my most fervent wish was to see what Wrym would be saying about it and laughing at me. He did not disappoint. Teasing me about killing off one of the most talkative and helpful Town players? Hmmm, you don’t say! Cookie for you.

cristigale – Saying she wasn’t worth remembering is a brutally mean and unfair back-handed slap to the face. She played a very good game, and I couldn’t believe anybody thought she was Scum. At one point, I considered her as a good lynch target because of her small conflict with Sage, but decided against it because she was playing so well I thought nobody would buy it at all. She played very well with an important role as well – she was never considered as a target for night kill, and I knew she was Town, but had zero inkling she had an important power role. Cookie for you.

CSPVG – I enjoyed playing with him much more this time than in any other game. The first part of the game, he really showed we can do when engaged and active. This is the CSPVG I would want to see in every game, all the time. Very funny, very engaging, and with an always-open and engaging mind. At the end there, he slipped back into not even reading the game anymore and trying to post anyway, and that sealed his fate. I legit thought he was some kind of Scum at the end there because he had so many things so completely wrong. Still, early on, he showed why I think he’s one of the most entertaining and fun players to read in the entire game when he’s switched on. Cookie for you.

Dedoporno – Man, oh man, I wish we could have lasted longer together. One of my really fun little “lie by telling the truth” moments was when I complained that as a Lone Survivor, I wish I’d had Scum buddies. RW was long dead by that point, and dedo was the guy I wanted to be my mentor. He had a good first Day, and I wish he had been around to help. I’m sure the game would have gone even smoother if he could have helped advise me on what to do. Thanks for the help you did give me, though dedo, and thanks for the kind word after the game was over. Cookie for you.

flubbucket – What can I say? I’m glad I entertain you all with my apoplectic fits. Flub made a just beautiful, brilliant gambit, and it almost worked. Even with the incredible amount of help the setup gave (and kids, stop arguing, this game wasn’t balanced against either Town or Scum, it was balanced in favor of the SK, who was totally randomly rolled) it’s still a hard road to proceed as a SK, and he damn near pulled it off, and probably would have if real life hadn’t pulled him away from the game. I really wish he had been able to respond to my Prisoner’s Dilemma proposal. (Which by the way, was not even really meant for him to read – it was completely theater for bler’s benefit, ha ha!) But flub… what would you have done? Just a fantastic job, even if I was nearly vomiting with frustration that nobody would listen to me. :) Cookie for you.

JMich – At least made me laugh. For the rest of my days, I will be the guy who only gets things right by tying my dick to the back of a moving car. I’m afraid nothing I ever do will change that reputation in your eyes. I hope we get to be Scum together someday so I can REALLY annoy the piss out of you. Nice setup for breadcrumbing a Town arsonist – without your assist, flub doesn’t make it half as far. You did a very good job with a brutally difficult win condition. Cookie for you.

Krypsyn – Was certainly scary good at nailing Scum early. Except for me, as I was running circles around him. ;) If he had decided to contribute instead of assing around with youtube videos, he would have had us rounded up and sent to the noose in minutes. All the correct reads in the world don’t do much if you don’t even try to convince anyone. Right HSL? Still, clearly smart as hell and a wicked powerful weapon for Town. His early death was purely a sign of respect. We had to kill him before he decided to start actually playing, because he’s just too smart and talented to have playing for the other team. Cookie for you.

Leonard – Really wished we’d seen more of the Leonard we saw in the prior game. He has a very funny in-game voice and is really clever. I think real life just got too in the way this time. I liked his play so much in the last one, I’d like to see him back for more. Sorry I killed you for crappy reasons. ;) Still don’t know what a “timbit” is, though. Cookie for you – maybe you’ll like those as well?

RWarehall – he and I held the line as best we could, despite what looked to us like we were getting shafted left and right. You just never really know what’s going on. He had a few excellent posts, including the one in which he hammered Leonard. He took some heat early and did a good job dancing out of it. He should have tried to convince flub to take the “SK on a leash” approach, though. ;) I was proud to be your partner in evil! Cookie for you.

Sage – I thoroughly enjoyed playing this one with Sage. I feel a little “foxhole syndrome” with her and bler… we went through a war together and somehow came out the other side. (Well, some of us came out more intact than others, lol) I am so, so, SO glad she was in the game at the end because she was the perfect stylistic counterpoint to bler and myself. She made me laugh out loud more than anybody else in the game. Our styles do tend to clash a good bit, and I’m lynching her ten minutes into the next game out of lurking policy, but things really game together well for a playability perspective. With only three active players posting, if I was going to be stuck in a tiny little box at the end of the game, I’m glad she was in it with me. Um. Wait, let me rephrase that… Nah, nevermind. Cookie for you Sage. Please don’t leave.

Trent – Had me nailed five minutes into the game, LOL. Of course I was Scum pushing for more information on roles! HELLO. That’s exactly what I was doing. My apologies again for the early-game confrontation – that was 100% theater. I had to do it to shake everyone else off and make us both look like two Townies arguing, so people would ignore it later when you nailed me for real. I knew you were the one guy I would not be able to fool, and that’s a compliment. And guess what? You had me utterly nailed in the mid-game too. Cookie for you.

I was suspicious of you.

I am the charmer.

Request Denied.

What I wanted was for a No Lynch. Then it would have been yogsloth and me shooting bler144 and Sage103082 for a shared victory.

Huzzah for bad guys!!!

Well played yogsloth. Congrats on the win and breaking the nauseating Town Win streak.

Special thanks to Vitek for hosting and providing a fantastic set up (second only to anything I do).

So where's the next sign up???
****************************

Oh I forgot........for the record

I was town and lied about nothing.

Great game, all!

@vitek - entertaining and original setup, thanks for hosting

@yogs - great play, except for a few comments in the dead thread which hinted you were scum, you had me snowed until CSPVG flipped town, well done

@flubb - great run at the arsonist, was such fun to watch

@sage - hope you hang around, you're a stronger player then I think you give yourself credit

@bler - hell of first game (I mean that in the nicest possible way)

@agentcarr - another strong showing from a first time player


Hope to see you all in future games! It will likely be several months until my schedule permits me to play again.

<3 Thank you all for the kind words. I may rethink my stepping out. We will see. I am finding it hard not to join Yogs game and make Candyland references the whole game =) Maybe I just needed a day to clear my mind.

I really enjoyed this game. Even though it did start to drag at the end and I was trying to think of ways to kill myself. (Not by mod that was a honest mistake)

@dedo - I knew there was something off with you day one. You were posting very different then what I have come to know as town dedo. I did not know if it was a power role or scum role. I did not want to draw attention to it yet as I did not know which. So I kept an eye on you and figured wait until day two to see how you play.

@CSPVG -You played very well too. Though your lurking and posting great posts here and there through me off. That was the one reason I thought you were scum. I know I am sorry I was wrong.

@Cristigale - I am very sorry for being dead wrong about you. I should not have let me mind run away with a gut feeling. I should have thought more into it and figured out a power role was there. Once you questioned not questioning me I knew I was wrong about you.

@Flub - Congrats you played a very very good game. I was so back and forth. You were not active but work was the reason. When you were active it was not the usual drunkish funny Flub. I thought work was the reason for this. Your posts were very much just going over what had already been talked about and making sure not to add to much. I am one that goes over others posts more then coming up with theories so I can not knock it but it was not the normal Flub.

@agent - Great first game!! You need to play more! You became much more active once you thought you might be a lynch candidate. You made me laugh and hit my head on the desk with some of your theories but I loved them all and everything you did to try to help town.

@trent - I knew you were town all along. I just had a feeling and I was not going to let anyone talk me into voting for you. There was not one certain thing that yelled town but my gut said it. Great game!

@Bler - You need to play more games!! Do not stop playing. You are strong and will be an asset to the games. I also loved hearing about your daughter and how much love came through when you talk about her. And do not worry I think many of us use the game as a form of therapy.

@RW - Big meanie head - I knew you were scum. =) You played a good game for the scum side.

@Jmich - You played wonderful. You confused me with your going after trent so hard the one day. I am still a bit in shock that a town player was protecting a SK.

@Wyrm - You made a choice and stuck with it. You played exactly how you wanted to and it did not exactly work out as you wanted. I can see way more of where you were going now that it is all on the table. I did not bring you back because Krypsyn could at least tell us what he did the night before. I can not wait until I see what you have in store for the next game.

@Krypsyn - How is the wife? Yummy? I loved your posts and vids and while I did not get them all I did watch them all and I knew you were on to something with RW. You are one of the strongest players around.

@Leonard - I can not wait to see how your play grows as you get more games under your belt. Great game.

@Yogs - I brought my Candyland..Can we play now? I always like the Ice Princess on the board. She was always my favorite. Great game. I was back and forth if you were scum or not. I even at one point said you were just pushing us along and you were going to be so happy we all followed. I loved your claim at the end. This actually made me decide that Flub would be my vote. You put a lot of thought into it. Very very well played my friend. I do not find you a poor player at all. I find you be one of the strongest players. You have a way with words and getting your point across and having others see things your way. For the good or bad. This is not a bad thing in this game. Might be bad for town when your scum. But I do not see your plays as bad or poor at all. I have not looked at the observers thread and will not because it is easy to sit back and comment and posts things when you have way more information then the people playing and sometimes people can be very cruel and mean and not even realize it.

if i missed anyone I am sorry I blame it souly on my exhaustion from this damn heat wave.

last but not least

@Vitek - Wonderful setup. I loved the flavor and the pms. I loved the mystery wrapped up in this game.