Same thing is going to happen when I flip town, you will be the next to be lynched. If you are town then town has already lost this game. If scum set this up to get two townies lynched then it's a masterpiece. Only way me and you are both town is if flub is lying his ass off. Scum would have had to sacrifice one of their own to the arsonist and then killed JMich to hide the fact that he was protecting town from the arsonist instead of protecting the arsonist. If that is the case bravo to them, but I don't see it. JMich's role was Town Guard of Arsonist, that is protecting the arsonist. That means flub has to be telling the truth about how his role works, and I am not scum. Only alternative is you being scum.

If whoever has an investigative rike wants to check memoir by all means do, they will see I am town.

Again, I'm on mobile, so I can't quote or anything. I know my claim of vanilla sounds strange in a role madness game, but I do have one bit of information that partially makes up for it. However, I'm going to keep it under my belt for a moment, because it's more effective in certain situations. Who else has claimed Vanilla?

yogsloth, I think you might be on to something, but I don't think the answer is what you seem to be thinking. I think it's very strange that flubbucket would be told antitown, especially as now the serial killer turns out to be 'town'. Who is there who is going to be non-town and non-scum, barring a serial killer.
It could just be flavor, but it's kind of funny. For what it's worth, I feel like we're being steamrolled into some kind of "mad arsonist rules the whole town".

RWarehall, your night actions actually make some sense. Who is Sage got to visit when Krypsyn is dead? And the post about Krypsyn returning came during the day, so a day action makes sense. How else is she going to know which players died? Also, role blocking stops the player you block from using their powers, doesn't it?

When I get home tonight, I'm going to have to put up a big post, but this is all I can manage for now.

Well, then either you or I have a role modifier of some sort that we aren't aware of. I am reminded of this one game (I think it was the Asylum game), in which I was a naive investigator (I did not, as per usual, know that I was naive until later in the game) and investigated a 'commuter'.

For whatever reason flavour-wise, this person didn't so much commute as lie on their bed and go to sleep. It still counted as commuting, if I recall, but they could be watched, investigated, etc. At least, that's the way I remember it being.

Now, of course, your PM explicitly states that my actions cannot have taken place, so it's different to the above situation. However, I wouldn't be surprised if you have some sort of modifier that you do not know about. So perhaps even your PM (or, indeed, my PM) is 'lying' to you.

The other option, of course, is that you are lying (I know what PM information I received, so I know I can't be lying) about your role. I have you peg as town, though, so that's not really a situation I'd like to consider, at least for the time being.

RWarehall:

Fair enough on the word choice, which is why I didn't really rag on you too much for it. I do, however, find it revealing that you feel that me asking a few questions about your word choices and reasoning is me going into 'full attack dog' mode. I unvoted you so that I could hear more from you. Surely, if I wanted to truly attack you, I'd stick my vote back on you and encourage others to do the same.

Also, while would not be nice, who is to say that, in the context of this game, ubalanced doesn't equal futile? For all we know (from many of the 'facts' we've been given), how do we know that Vitek didn't set this whole thing up to see what would happen if he put an underpowered scum team and a town-linked Arsonist (which, more on that later)?

Furthermore, I don't remember suggesting that the scum team was 1) not very powerful and 2)consisted of three members only. I may have said something to that effect earlier, but I'm not sure how large I believe the scum team to be at this moment. I also do not know if I feel that speculating on the size of the team would be at all helpful at this moment in time.

Lastly, I do not recall intentionally putting you at L-2. Sure, I voted for you on the grounds of the accusations I had leveled (which were confirmed by bler, as he had indeed visited you on night two) and soon after that both trenton and Sage voted for you. I don't quite see how this is us not following flub's lead. We were each presented with evidence (or what seems to be evidence), considered it independently, and voted for you on the basis of finding you scummy at the time. I did, however, unvote you.

The other thing of it is, should we be following flubbucket's lead on trentonlf at all? While I have a large degree of suspicion surrounding many of trent's actions and utterances, I don't really think taking the word of what amounts to a Serial Killer as being all that helpful. Yes, it may be true that flub is a town-linked Arsonist, and JMich seems to confirm this, but I'd still like to weigh our options a little more and really think this through before piling on someone.

In general:

Anyone think a no-lynch could be helpful at this point? Also, I know what you're thinking, and no, I don't intend to just give flub a free pass to kill someone at night. Perhaps there's a Jailer or some other role that could block his action for the night.

Really, thinking about it now, the above is really a silly suggestion, but I'm leaving it in to see what everyone thinks about it.

I am at work and gog and my phone are not friends will read over tonight.

Non game post- anyone ever give b12 or any type of injections pm me for I have questions :)

1. It is not a excuse. It is fact. I also did not bring him back until later in the day as I was not sure who to use it on at first and wanted time to think on it. He did not come back when the game started. He confirmed that I knew how long he was going to be here. I am not lying about my role and abilities.

2. What if Cristigal blocked Flub from being blown apart by the bomb. Jmich was the scum night kill.

Could there really be another role that redirects? What are everyone's thoughts on this?

(Just got home and reading down - and tomorrow I find out more information on my new job woohoo)

I'm throwing out a whole lot of incoherent thoughts, to make sure that I get something up tonight. I'll try and get an organized post up in another hour or two.

So we have Sage claiming Town... Something. She hasn't put a name on it yet.
Flubbucket is claiming Town Compulsive Arsonist.
RWarehall is claiming Town Handyman.
Bler is claiming an investigative role of some kind, but he doesn't get exact results. At least, that is what I'm drawing from his posts.
Yogsloth seems to be claiming a role with several different abilities, very much like RWarehall, apparently. He also hasn't given us any kind of name yet.

Let's assume that flubbucket is the Compulsive Arsonist. I'm going to leave his alignment aside for now. We know that JMich was a Town Guard of Arsonist, that was confirmed in the NK, and if we can't trust out NK statements, then there's no real point in playing the game.
I've been thinking a lot about this, and there's no good reason to assume that a Town Guard of Arsonist implies a Town Arsonist. There could be a Townie who either believes the Arsonist is town or who believes in what the Arsonist is doing. So I'm not willing to assume that flubbucket is town just because
we have a Town Guard.
Also, I'm not going to be convinced that flubbucket isn't scum just because he killed dedoporno the first night. There could be some kind of random element in his hits. Krypsyn had a random element, and we had a Nexus, so I'm not ruling out that flubbucket accidentally hit his own scum buddy.

@Sage What do you mean, “What flavour do I have?” I posted my PM flavour a little while ago and the rest of my PM deals with the information that I have.

CSPVG claims to have seen bler visit RWarehall on Night 2. Bler confirms that he did investigate Rwarehall on Night 2. If bler was scum, then it would be very easy to say he didn't investigate on Night 2, thereby throwing a lot of suspicion on CSPVG. If they are both scum then they are going to cooperate as much as possible. If they are both town, then they are both telling the truth. So either bler and CSPVG are the same faction or CSPVG is scum and bler is town.

I'm also interested that we haven't seen any other players flip or claim 'Property Owner'. Is there a power role lurking somewhere that interacts with 'Property Owners', or does it function like Masons of some kind and we haven't killed the other one?

Did RW claim handyman? My internet is running dial-up slow, so posts are loading slowly, but I don't think I've seen him make a specific role claim.

Was that a slip? I have no idea. Someone with working internet could possible take a look.

I tried googling such a role and didn't see a description - can anyone link a wiki? I'd like to fairly evaluate what he seems to be presenting as his defense.

I do have a theory that flub might be only telling us 90% of the truth, but for the moment I'm still inclined to believe his general direction favors town even if it might also be serving some other personal end.

I also increasingly am thinking it's likely there are only 3 scum, whether or not Flub is really independent with an unrelated victory condition rather than town per se. I'll explain why in a bit - gotta go out and find dinner - and I'd like to see precisely where RW mentions "handyman," and hopefully also some sort of link before i get into the theory.

My head is totally spinning.

If I follow the nicest lines of logic, I come out that both RWarehall and trentonlf are probably town, which puts me totally at odds with everyone else.

If I take everyone else's opinions into consideration, I can only conclude that we have a lot of very misguided town, myself included.

I should really go back and look into the other two wagons. I hope that I will find something in them.

Why would a town guard protect a scum? That makes no sense. I could see flub being neutral at most, but not scum. If flub is being honest with his being given 3 names a night and choosing one then me or yogs is scum, and as I keep saying it sure as hell isn't me. We know there is an arsonist according to JMich and the flavor of the NKs, everyone has claimed and flub is the only one to claim arsonist. He has to be claiming his role truthfully, we just have to decide if he is lying on the names he was given or how his role works. I have believed him because of JMich's role, and I still do.

I just can't justify a Town guard working with a scum, and I have issues even justifying a Town Guard working with a neutral.

Possible, but I don't find the claim particularly credible, for a few reasons.

Stepping outside the question of what decision we're going to make in Day 3, I do think there is some grand irony in the fact that the game more or less started with trent/yog fuming at each other, and it may end that way as well.

@Yog - I'm confused by your post voting for Trent. I re-read it several times and I think it hit me what's odd. You spend the post ranting about Flub and CSP's claims and how we're letting an arsonist walk and yada yada. You insinuate an elaborate scum plot to lynch you and then Trent, and OMG the world is crazy!

And then you...vote Trent? Not Flub? Not CSP who is conspiring against you? Not RW, who is by and large the question on the table.

What am I missing there, other than that it seems you want to cast doubt on their claim but then concede the point going for a sympathy angle hoping we fall on Trent, who has admittedly had more FoS than you have. But you seem to overlook somehow that most of the votes are neither on you nor Trent. I mean, I know I proved in D2 that I can't do basic counting, but you may want to re-count the votes on the table. :) Heck, even Trent isn't voting for you atm IIRC.

You're still fighting trent vs. yog when the argument for Day 3 has to large extent moved on. I find that a bit suspicious. Why? This would be a good reason:

Say you and RW are the two remaining scum. Based on what flub has said about how his pools are derived, if we lynch RW, you lose your role blocker (which is what he seems to be saying he is), and you end up right back in flub's pool tonight. Unless you get lucky and Trent also draws in the pool again (what, 4/6 chance he doesn't) then flub's automatic move is to lynch you. Even if you both end up in the pool and you get lucky and he lynches trent, in this scenario you know trent flips town and...you know how that ends. Conversely, if you can get anyone else on the lynch, you at least have a chance.

Anyway, that's just a theory. It's not even an accusation. But it does fall together awfully well to explain why you don't seem particularly interested in looking at RW, even if you aren't inclined to vote for him. Coincidentally, RW also seems to be trying to bring us back to the trent vs. yog coin flip, but of course Trent looks just a bit scummier.

Handyman? Anyone? How might it differ from standard role blocker?

TYVM.

Sage asked about night 1, but night 2 is really the more...interesting claim here, isn't it?

Rw has played before, correct? And yet he's asserting that he visited Cristi to role-block her, and that somehow that was supposed to prevent her death? With everything else going on in the past 24 hours, this particular claim seems to have slipped under everyone's radar.

It seems...well, a very odd claim in a number of ways. I don't even see how he's positing that it's supposed to make sense. Though I do think I know why he's playing it this way. I'd like to know how he wants to try and explain this core claim.

Forget the redirection theory. The core issue is why target Cristi with a role-block if you were really trying to 'protect her' as you so indicate. What precisely about your role description would indicate that functionality? And why protect Cristi at all?


Travelling home tomorrow, but should be able to check in before I head to the airport, and possibly on layover.

I would never say toodles..........never