Fair point.

Not sure. I think if he is scum, Nexus will probably be a false claim. So either he's a town Nexus which will prove problematic to town, or scum that we don't care about his role. Too bad Krypsyn and his vigilante shot is off the table.

(pre-airport check-in)

I doubt you'd convince him to use it on Leon over RW.

I'm not flying for interview - this is a training trip. Interview is the day after I get back. Anyway, off to airport.

You might be surprised. However, it is moot. :P

added the bold:

We? as in you and other scum?

Why would scum not care about the role of their teammate? "We" as the players looking to kill scum. If he is scum, we don't care about his role, unless we are scum ourselves.

I was sifting through this late last night and thinking the same thing. Decided I needed to sleep on it. I have a bit to add to this...

The way I read the role, he seems innocuous once we know he has the role. The problem, as you mention, is that it is impossible to verify, short of his flip. Which is why a policy-lynch is mentioned in the wiki as an option.

More so than not, I’m leaning toward Leonard actually being the Town Nexus. If he is not Nexus, he’s not town (LAL). If he is not Nexus, I find choosing Nexus fairly risky with the mafia wiki indicating a policy-lynch might be a course of action. At first glance, it might seem wise because the role cannot be confirmed (short of flip.) Which is what makes the policy lynch a real possibility, and a risky stance to take if scum (or third party.)

He could be scum lying about the role, but that's the part I'm leaning toward unlikely. Which leads me back to Town Nexus. And I agree it may be necessary to policy lynch. The remainder of his play has done little to convince me he is town.

@trent – I was revisiting your posts and have a question. To avoid any confusion, I’m including all the context…

In the post where you unvote me and vote for leonard, you made this observation and asked Leonard to explain:

Leonard responds to your question:

In your next comment to Leonard, you confirm that you did not buy Leonard’s explanation and confirm your reason for voting…

Now I’m getting to my question. Here is the original context of the “real NK” comment (emphasis added):

Finally, my question - reading Leonard’s list of points in the context of the bolded portion, do you see the “real NK” comment in a different light?

Leonard’s got plenty going against him. The “real NK” comment is not something I would count in the list. When I read the original context, it seems clear he is hypothesizing that “incompetent” might mean Krypsym killed himself in the act of using his Vig shot. The "real NK" is in conclusion to that hypothesis.

I think he says as much in his reply to your question (the second quote above). But I don’t find it easy to follow, nor obvious apart from the original context.

Why are you trying to get me to change my vote? Is it because I should feel sorry for Leonard? Everyone has RL that interferes at times and most will also be heavily scrutinized at some point. Just because had a strong reaction to it does not sway my vote. I don't like the comment even after his explanation or yours, but I do find it interesting you are defending him.

She can Vote for the scummy??

He is the Scum Nexus.

I'm thinking a form of Roleblocker/Deflector.

There is no way to know for sure if you are lying or not without a flip. Your claim makes investigations null.


Vote Leonard03

Quick flyby here - it sounds like some of you are trying to talk yourselves out of making a decision.

Time for everyone to put a vote on the table. The time for talkin' is about done, now it's time for shootin'.

We need a deadline and some urgency to keep the game from stalling out. You know who my top two are.

Weird - server won't let me make a new post. So reply it is.

Here's my read:
Almost definitely town: Sage. Alternatives are just too far-fetched.
Pretty likely town: Cristi. If she's not town, then, well, I don't know what to believe.
Leaning town: Jmich, Yog, Agentcarr

On the fence: Trent. Yes I'm still vacillating.

Everyone else for me is somewhere in play, but I'm not going to rank and reveal. Like flub, on the plane it occurred to me there could be a scum Nexus as well, whether or not Leon flips truthful. That would bleeping suck, frankly. I know this is looking like a role madness game, but in a game where every town who has flipped has some significant limitation on their role, that's just way OP. Maybe there is a strong cop in town, but nothing we've so far makes me think that's something we can count on.

Now, I mostly agree with Cristi's analysis - but having thought it through Leon's claim isn't actually investigation proof, it just requires multiple investigations by the same cop. For the sake of argument standard cop investigates two nights in a row - if he gets different results s/he knows the claim is true, but opposite results will happen only roughly 40% of the time. Same results prove nothing. Role cop would have a much better shot, but I didn't run the numbers because it requires too many assumptions.

Either way, that's 2 nights dedicated to one person to maybe/not get a result. So I don't think it's investigation-proof, but it would be a huge waste of town resources. Scum, conversely, wouldn't seem to have to care.

Yog is right, and I'm one of those who's been hesitate to pull the trigger and was hoping L-1 last night would make the decision easy for me. My read is that, worst case scenario for town is a 3rd claim. At this point I think that only helps scum. Town is stuck juggling three claims of varying probability, and even if we have multiple investigative roles, we have no way to coordinate them.

The alternative, then, by my read is either no-lynch, or Leon lynch, and with the likelihood that if we do no-lynch we're right back to a split on whether to policy lynch him tomorrow. I don't think that's good.

Vote: Leonard

May good have mercy on our role-playing souls.

I assume that you're doing this because of the way that I had to be pushed to vote on Leonard, even after concluding it was for the best.

*little voice inside my head* "But maybe he is town, in which case I'm going to look stupid. And he hasn't done anything really scummy, so maybe I shouldn't vote for him. And there are other people who look scummier..." And so on. But I have voted.

I think a deadline would help get people moving, though Leonard is at L-1.

I would tend to agree with you here. I had my doubts before she claimed, but I don't think the alternatives are viable.

Well, things look very grim. If I do end up being forced out of town, please keep a close eye on agentcarr and trentonlf. I have a feeling they are scum.
May as well Vote: trentonlf while I still can. I would do agentcarr too.
I wish there was something I could say to convince you all I'm town. I don't think any of the reasons for lynching me are good. Basically they are:
Lurking and not contributing enough, it apparently looks like a scum trying to find something to say.
Being the Nexus: a policy lynch.
No role flavour: can't be helped.