It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
Community
General discussionHow many of you actually boycott Steam games?(1376 posts)(1376 posts)
(1376 posts)
Pages:
1
10
20
30
40
43
44
45
46
47
60
70
80
92
This is my favourite topic
Posted August 31, 2015
avatar
Pheace: That doesn't change the fact that legally you don't necessarily have the right to transfer the license you 'own'. A license comes with terms about it's transferrability. You're a licensee of the copyrighted product, not an owner.

example:

The first-sale doctrine of 1909, in its current form, allows the “owner of a particular copy” of a copyrighted work to sell or dispose of his copy without the copyright owner’s authorization. “The first sale doctrine does not apply to a person who possesses a copy of the copyrighted work without owning it, such as a licensee,” the court ruled.
avatar
Pheace: (US, 2010)
You need to update your references.

First-sale and exhaustion of the right of distribtion now both apply to licensed software.
Posted August 31, 2015
avatar
Pheace: That doesn't change the fact that legally you don't necessarily have the right to transfer the license you 'own'. A license comes with terms about it's transferrability. You're a licensee of the copyrighted product, not an owner.

example:

(US, 2010)
avatar
mechmouse: You need to update your references.

First-sale and exhaustion of the right of distribtion now both apply to licensed software.
Ah, did they change US law in the meantime?

I imagine it differs per country/contintent to some extent anyway. Either way it was an example, not a statement that that's how it was everywhere. The fact remains, simply because you have a license, does not (or perhaps did not, depending where you are) automatically mean you have transfer ability rights.
Post edited August 31, 2015 by Pheace
Posted August 31, 2015
Not boycotting. But I have pretty clear priorities:

1. DRM free via GOG and Humble (whether Humble or GOG depends on extras and Steam key)
2. DRM free via Gamersgate (very, very rare)
3. Humble Store (Steam key)
4. Steam
Posted August 31, 2015
Both US and EU copyright laws have been overhauled in order to unify how the laws work and the languaged used. Once on a computer (not my tablet) i'l find the pertinant laws.

The last germany vs valve law suit really annoyed me. In dismissing the case under the grounds games may not be software the judge really messed up. Its goingbto take years of court cases before this mess gets sorted.

The case before, a different judge ruled the game licenses are transferable but valve shouldn't bear the costs of doing so.

I've found the Directive used in the USedsoft/Oracle case

Directive 2009/24/ec
[url=http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2009:111:0016:0022:EN:PDF]http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2009:111:0016:0022:EN:PDF[/url]

Article 4, point 2

2. The first sale in the Community of a copy of a program by the rightholder or with his consent shall exhaust the distri­bution right within the Community of that copy, with the exception of the right to control further rental of the program or a copy thereof.
Post edited August 31, 2015 by mechmouse
Posted August 31, 2015
avatar
mechmouse: Both US and EU copyright laws have been overhauled in order to unify how the laws work and the languaged used. Once on a computer (not my tablet) i'l find the pertinant laws.

The last germany vs valve law suit really annoyed me. In dismissing the case under the grounds games may not be software the judge really messed up. Its goingbto take years of court cases before this mess gets sorted.

The case before, a different judge ruled the game licenses are transferable but valve shouldn't bear the costs of doing so.

I've found the Directive used in the USedsoft/Oracle case

Directive 2009/24/ec
[url=http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2009:111:0016:0022:EN:PDF]http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2009:111:0016:0022:EN:PDF[/url]

Article 4, point 2

2. The first sale in the Community of a copy of a program by the rightholder or with his consent shall exhaust the distri­bution right within the Community of that copy, with the exception of the right to control further rental of the program or a copy thereof.
I'm aware of the Oracle case but as you also pointed out, they tried to use that specific case in court vs Valve and the court specifically stated that it does not apply to them, and alluded that it may not even apply to games at all.

I'm a little biased as I personally am happy with the current sales environment we have. All you have to do to get a game cheap these days is just have a little patience and the prices will go down (sometimes even to bundle levels).

I personally think if digital resale is ever enforced any benefit we'll gain out of that will be stripped by publishers changing their sales practices, higher prices, far fewer sales/price drops, subscriptions instead of sales, tiny base game + tons of DLC etc.

It's not realistic to have a second hand sales environment where the resold product is in no way inferior to the store bought product. As long as there'd be any copy available for a cheaper price than the store there'd be no reason to buy the storebought copy.
Post edited August 31, 2015 by Pheace
Posted August 31, 2015
I am a person which never installed Steam, and that will not change in the future. I have enough games to play without succumbing to the devil :P I am not even buying games for consoles, if they are Steam exclusive for PC.

Only thing which kind of makes me sad, is that I missed Fallout New Vegas and South Park RPG. But most of the so called "AAA" games which were released last 6 years were crap anyway. GOG is all I need for my PC gaming needs now. Even though some of the games are not the newest, but thank to them I have found lot of games, which I had no chance of playing when I was younger.

But I still prefer to have physical copies for all of my games, which unfortunately means, that I have to go for consoles more often than not :(
Posted August 31, 2015
avatar
MMLN: I am a person which never installed Steam, and that will not change in the future. I have enough games to play without succumbing to the devil :P I am not even buying games for consoles, if they are Steam exclusive for PC.

Only thing which kind of makes me sad, is that I missed Fallout New Vegas and South Park RPG. But most of the so called "AAA" games which were released last 6 years were crap anyway. GOG is all I need for my PC gaming needs now. Even though some of the games are not the newest, but thank to them I have found lot of games, which I had no chance of playing when I was younger.

But I still prefer to have physical copies for all of my games, which unfortunately means, that I have to go for consoles more often than not :(
I'm not picking on you specifically but how do people know whether they like or dislike Steam until they actually use it? You'd think any kind of adult would be out of that kind of thinking thanks to being force fed vegetables as children.
Posted August 31, 2015
The court did not say it didn't apply to them, valves lawyers cast sufcient doubt that games are software to get the case dismissed pending the resolution of another set of cases.

as for reduction in price, other than un-predictable sales, the prices fall very, very slowly. The lack of external stimulous means publishers have near absolute control of pricing and the ability to out wait the buyer.

I agree a digital second hand market will change things, but as more content becomes digital only the current situation becomes unattainable. The reason for this is you may own a thousand pounds worth of licensed material in digital format. That will soon become tens of thousands, all of which is locked to you. You die, next of kin have no access to those. marriage, divorce, liquidation of assets and dozen of other things all demand that what you own must be transferable.

A second hand digital market is possible, but requires regulation namely a period in whEn initial sales are protected, of course this is an issue for places like gog.
Posted August 31, 2015
Not boycotting steam here - but not particularly liking it either . If i can get a game DRM free even if it's more expensive i'll get it DRM-free . On Steam i also only buy/get games i play right away and i don't have a backlog like here were my backlog is actually a triple digit number -.- . So summarized - try to avoid if possible , prefer DRM free, don't use it for "collection purposes" but if a game like Human Revolution or Civ 5 or PES comes up which only works with steam and i have time/will/urge to play it right away i'll buy it there.
Posted August 31, 2015
avatar
darthspudius: I'm not picking on you specifically but how do people know whether they like or dislike Steam until they actually use it? You'd think any kind of adult would be out of that kind of thinking thanks to being force fed vegetables as children.
How do people know whether they like or dislike shit until they actually eat it?
You'd think any kind of adult would learn to filter and trust secondhand evidence instead of putting everything into their mouth.
Posted August 31, 2015
avatar
MMLN: I am a person which never installed Steam, and that will not change in the future. I have enough games to play without succumbing to the devil :P I am not even buying games for consoles, if they are Steam exclusive for PC.

Only thing which kind of makes me sad, is that I missed Fallout New Vegas and South Park RPG. But most of the so called "AAA" games which were released last 6 years were crap anyway. GOG is all I need for my PC gaming needs now. Even though some of the games are not the newest, but thank to them I have found lot of games, which I had no chance of playing when I was younger.

But I still prefer to have physical copies for all of my games, which unfortunately means, that I have to go for consoles more often than not :(
avatar
darthspudius: I'm not picking on you specifically but how do people know whether they like or dislike Steam until they actually use it? You'd think any kind of adult would be out of that kind of thinking thanks to being force fed vegetables as children.
Well, you do not need to try something out, when you can read their EULAs and see, that they are infringing on your basic customer rights because "games as a service" bullshit :P If you do not mind postponing your rights to some company, it's your decision, but most of the "adults" are able to make a well informed decision with enough infomation at their hand. Or you would have to try Iron Maiden first to be able to find out, it might kill you? :P
Post edited August 31, 2015 by MMLN
Posted August 31, 2015
avatar
darthspudius: I'm not picking on you specifically but how do people know whether they like or dislike Steam until they actually use it? You'd think any kind of adult would be out of that kind of thinking thanks to being force fed vegetables as children.
avatar
Starmaker: How do people know whether they like or dislike shit until they actually eat it?
You'd think any kind of adult would learn to filter and trust secondhand evidence instead of putting everything into their mouth.
I've never eaten shit but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like it, though my dachshund seems to love it.
Posted August 31, 2015
low rated
avatar
darthspudius: I'm not picking on you specifically but how do people know whether they like or dislike Steam until they actually use it? You'd think any kind of adult would be out of that kind of thinking thanks to being force fed vegetables as children.
avatar
Starmaker: How do people know whether they like or dislike shit until they actually eat it?
You'd think any kind of adult would learn to filter and trust secondhand evidence instead of putting everything into their mouth.
Eating shit is known to be a like for some really strange people. Who am I to complain about their personal tastes. Iron Maidens first album sounds nothing like what they've been doing for 25 years. It's still a try it and see if you like it thing.
avatar
Starmaker: How do people know whether they like or dislike shit until they actually eat it?
You'd think any kind of adult would learn to filter and trust secondhand evidence instead of putting everything into their mouth.
avatar
tinyE: I've never eaten shit but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like it, though my dachshund seems to love it.
Recycling your own waste!
Post edited August 31, 2015 by darthspudius
Posted August 31, 2015
avatar
tinyE:
avatar
darthspudius: Recycling your own waste!
I do that every time I make a post in here. *rimshot*

For another take on recycling your own waste I recommend watching 'The Human Centipede'. I have it on DVD. Come on over and we'll have a screening. :D
Posted August 31, 2015
avatar
darthspudius: Recycling your own waste!
avatar
tinyE: I do that every time I make a post in here. *rimshot*

For another take on recycling your own waste I recommend watching 'The Human Centipede'. I have it on DVD. Come on over and we'll have a screening. :D
haha sounds good to me, I loved that movie. So tasteless. The bad guy was a fantastic character haha.
Pages:
1
10
20
30
40
43
44
45
46
47
60
70
80
92
This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionHow many of you actually boycott Steam games?(1376 posts)(1376 posts)
(1376 posts)