I've always wanted a good Day chat. Slightly less than I've wanted an unlimited vig shot, but still high on my list of wants.

Back on laptop.

I'll be flying again Wednesday, then will be off the internet, till I get a sim card which should hopefully be around Thursday. As such, since I'll be offline Wednesday and most of Thursday, I realized ending the day on Monday is not the best idea (Night will end on Wednesday, but it might not be till Thursday evening or Friday that I start next day anyway).

So the new end date for D4 is Tuesday (late afternoon/early evening Europe, late morning/early afternoon Americas). Night will last while I'm away.

Of course you don't have to wait till last minute to end the day. If you lynch earlier I'll adjust accordingly.

I can get behind this too.
Woo, only 2 more votes needed to get this mislynch.

Will do, mom.
I am actually feeling a bit better this morning, so maybe it was enough to sleep it off. I hope it stays that way.

No, I haven't seen any real reason why BW and SPF couldn't be buddies, but they would also have to be buddies with scene and SPF is the person with strongest argument to not be buddy of scene.

So far from what I have read, there is nobody to be fully excluded to be scene's buddy.

SPF is very unlikely for reasons I mentioned many times.

For Poppy/Chico to not be buddy speaks that scene voted her to get any other lynch but himself and that he tried to chain-(mis)lynch back in D1 by hoping to lynch Lift and if he flips town then go after Poppy. Sure, you'll all doubt it, coming from be but it's there.
It is also true I was not on either of his wagons and believed D1 that the claim is genuine.

gogtrial was always soon to vote scene and kept his vote there so he would certainly be on the more unlikely side of spectrum.

trent - voted scene soon for him voting Poppy. Unvoted after claim and it seemed like he was unfazed by what appeared to be "PM copying". Voted early in D2 while suspecting osmeone else voting - tried to explain already. After voting was mostly done with scene - possible buddies? Yes, but nothing too telling to support it strongly.

Bookwyrm - seemingly coached scene (told him to read the setup properly) and only tried to lynch him after his claim but tried quite hard. On D2 he focused on mchack for voting scene before finally caving in and hammering scene for giving himself away by the double post. - possible buddy? There are sure some things to support it and some to speak against it but he is on the more likely side, I'd say.

HSL - seemingly coached scene several times, defended him few times (by offfering possible explanations for scene's actions), was not involved in his D1 wagon and mostly ignored that wagon, only when it felt apart tried to support SPF's one (moving from Joe) together with scene on basis of "who else". On D2 questioned scene all Day (overall questioned him through and through but it didn't seem like he ever formed any opinion) but I don't think he even expressed the intent to lynch him. - possible buddies? Very likely and quite obvious. Question is if he would be that obvious.

Joe perhaps but would be cleared by trial.


So it leaves me with HSL most likely followed by either trent or Bookwyrm.
Trent gives me the most town feeling out of them outside this.
But could HSL and Wyrm be a thing together?
I find them less likely than HSL + trent.

Would trent Wyrm work?


In other news, I saw car today with big HLS letters written all over it and I wondered if it perhaps means HyperLiveSomniac.


I hope all is well.

Flub, anything you care to add?

My preferred lynch order, assuming the Day Chat thing gets verified:
HSL, Trent, Vitek/SPF

I think SPF is more likely SK than Vitek, but Vitek has been excessively cagey about actually voting. This cagey-ness bugs me on multiple levels.

I don't really have much more to say. Just waiting on people to make a decision so we can move this thing along.

My vote choices are HypersomniacLive and trentonlf.


Vote: HypersomniacLive

You think I would have pointed out the flaw in Poppy's logic if I was a SK? I reckon if I was SK I would have let that slide and then done precisely what I warned about instead of warning about it. I guess that's all WIFOM, but I'm not sure what my motivation to challenge Poppy's logic would have been.

Sorry been a busy Friday for me, but it seems I have not really missed much. I’ll pop in later and hopefully HSL and gogtrial have shown up by then so we can move forward form this rut we seem to be stuck in.

You see, gogtrial34987, it's things like this that make me think and say things like what I said in my post #516. And by revealing it all when you as soon as you show up, you disarm any arguments that could potentially be made.

*waits for the scum-points shower*


Looking through the C9++ setup determination, going from one letter to two, each role (except for the Cop and Mason roles) becomes a regular one + a 1-shot one. The Cop and Mason roles are even on the limited power side if only one letter of them is rolled, which I think is for balancing purposes.

Are you saying that the town's overpowered against a Godfather + Investigation Immune OR 1-Shot Bulletproof SK, or Godfather + RB, so that adding a pair of Lovers balances things out? Does it look the same way if we're in the 1T setup, where, compared to the 2T scenario we're against Godfather + RB + Investigation Immune OR 1-Shot Bulletproof SK, when that one T less more likely means an additional 1-shot role? How do you explain it if yes, and if no?


Not sure I follow why you're limiting this to the 0T scenario.

I also don't quite see what the "reduced additional power" is in having a Lovers pair. The strength of a Masons pair is the same as that of a Lovers pair so long its existence in the setup is hidden. And once it's out, aren't both pairs equally a liability to town? One Mason gets policy-lynched, the other gets NK-ed, both Lovers are off the table for lynch, but both die with a single NK. So both pairs are typically removed during a single Day-Night cycle. As for the Day-Chat, that's just marginally better than the Night-Chat, so I'm not sure it balances out things enough. Sure, Day-Chat allows for coordination during the Day phase and Lynch, but since the pair's hidden, there's only that much it can do to influence the Lynch in a certain direction without exposing themselves. And that's assuming that between the two of them they make better judgements than the rest of us.


Heh. Do I get scum-points only when I say you're speaking and acting smart?


Well, which of the following has better chances?

1. Let your remaining buddy die, and ride it alone, as a first time scum, with a single vote in the game, and hope that the townies won't figure it out, and thus not turn against you?
2. False-claim Lovers which not only immediately takes you both off the table, but also gives you a position of power and influence over the lynches, and ride it together with two votes in the game?


[emphasis added]

*ISO's gogtrial34987, finds post*

Heh.


I didn't miss it, but with one more letter unknown, it isn't all that clear cut that blocking mchack results in a 100% chance of killing you both... is it? Oh wait, you accounted for that just a little bit further down...

On another note, the wording of that last bit I quoted suggests quite some confidence/certainty in another PR being in play. That's after you've already mentioned the 0T scenario. Any particular reason you seem to think this is our setup?


As soon as I started playing forum mafia, I went and made my bus-driver's license, then bought me a shiny new bus; this way I don't have to depend on regular bus routes like Vitek.

I know that trentonlf has said the same thing in at least one past game, but I'm pretty sure I've never seen it in action myself.

Does everyone answering for themselves help you, and in what way?


Heh. Any ideas on why you'd be still alive Tomorrow?


Yeah, I'm still not sold on the Lovers claim. Because their EoD3 bothers me. The claim itself and its timing was damn convenient (said so Yesterday already), and at this point in the game (with almost every PR revealed), not all that risky. especially with all the alternative ways of fitting in he setup they pre-emptively mentioned.
What bothers me is that while they seemed pretty concerned about getting lynched, they didn’t seem to be concerned about being the N3 NK. JoeSapphire voted mchack, with what felt like subtle fearmongering (deadline is looming, mchack’s now at L-1 (a subtle push to finish him off?)), and left. gogtrial34987 switched to Ixamyakxim but was ready to go back onto mchack at around the 15 minutes mark to deadline, which also felt like subtle fearmongering (15 minutes to deadline, it’s either mchack or No-Lynch, make your choices). Neither seemed to care that mchack may well have been their only chance to be protected, which the latter pointed out in his post #768. So effectively, while all others present were concerned with losing 1+2 townies in a single Day-Night cycle, they weren’t. And here they are Today, both being “sucks he was telling the truth, but I didn’t believe him, oh well”.

Additionally, gogtrial34987 made a case to get back on the mchack wagon in post #723, and when I asked him to elaborate on why mchack’s votes look opportunistic, his reply was [emphasis added]:
That was around the 2hrs mark, enough time to go back and check, especially if he’s keeping notes like he’s said somewhere, so why just "maybe later"? That came across as dodging/unwillingness to support his case with the requested details when he had just pulled up a bunch of mchack quotes in his post #723, if not some eagerness/impatience to get their claim out so they're in the clear, and frankly, it still does.

That’s on top of town-reading JoeSapphire for saying “let the day play out”, and not participating in cutting the Day short (post #745). When at the same time, Bookwyrm627 who did exactly that, but it didn’t affect the strong town-read he still had on the latter one iota, as his experience could be used to lynch mchack for allegedly false-claiming.

I don’t know, perhaps I'm getting paranoid, but something just doesn’t seem to add up in a way for it to feel right.


I'm finishing up another post, so could use a bump just in case.

Vote count:

HSL - 3: SPF, bookwyrm, flub
bookwyrm -1: trent
vitek -1: Joe

Not voting - 3: gogtrial, HSL, Vitek

8 players. Takes 5 to lynch.

Heh.


Will the answer influence the order of your preferred lynches? Hint: I'm not referring to myself.


I kept coaching supplementscene's ghost on D3? Well, I'll be damned.


Yes, to both of them, actually, but they don't know it so don't tell them; each think they're that special one for me, and I'd hate to hurt their feelings.


Because expressed intent to lynch supplementscene on D2 had zero value? Even actual votes on the D2 wagon have little value.


Heh. If I said that I couldn't see this coming from more than a couple of miles away, I'd be lying.



Is their claim the only thing that makes you discard this scenario?


I don't follow what the point in time of rolling the setup/roles has to do with anything Masons/Lovers related. Elaborate?


No, that's the on_the_surface read. There's nothing that needs reconciling.


That's some pretty hefty twisting and misrepresentation there. But it's not like you don't have an out there.

*points at post #835*


Heh.



Boy, you sure can't wait to eat that crow, can you? Just spare me the half-hearted apology afterwards, deal?

No offence, but that's such a childish argument to make. I wasn't one of them either, so what? You were still OK with lynching him after he claimed, which is a bit worse, imo.

My point is that when you voted mchack we had around 2hrs left, and instead of pushing for your preferred lynch candidate, you resigned to voting the claimed Doctor, whom you say you believed less than the Lovers pair, but who may well had been their only chance to survive the N3 NK (as it turned out).

I understand that you were sick and all, but you know, it's easy to be resigned and reactive, Day after Day, and judge others for their actions after the fact.


If it was a lot more subtle, to the point I might have gotten away with it, why is everyone and their cat pointing it out since early D3, if not earlier (too tired to go back and check if the latter actually happened)?

Frankly, I'm getting tired, actually sick and tired, of this argument that people bring forward to scum-read me, and push for my mislynch. Vitek's currently the worst offender; he's exact words are:

So, not only did I suffer a very serious lapse in judgement for the whole of D1, but my remaining teammate made no efford to bring me back in line during N1 and N2, or he did, and I just went "frakk you", and continued not only on D2, but also D3.

Whatever. You guys want to lynch me? Go ahead. I take comfort in the only redeeming thing my mislynch comes with - scum has succeeded to suck the town lot into the distraction that's me for three Days now, so with me out of the picture, the town lot may, just may, finally try to catch actual scum before it's too late for us. Oh, and seeing the town lot eat crow, yeah, I'll enjoy that.


Not when in the eyes of the majority you linked yourself to a D2 flipped teammate since D1.


[emphasis added]

Not if there's no mislynch for every Day a teammate survives.

You know what? You're approaching this very similarly to how mchack did, so I foresee us going in circles, and as I said, I'm sick and tired of it all.


I think I'll wait for you to get better, lest Vitek accuses me of coaching supplementscene's ghost Today too.


Heh.


Heh.



At risk of offending supplementscene - you've been in two games with him, does he strike you like the type that'd listen to what others advice him to do, especially if doing so would make him deviate from what was (until now) his town-game?



And I just realised I missed this in my earlier post.

I'd hope that five minutes away from EoD in a LyLo situation I'd have a better idea/feeling/read on who to vote. But gun to my head, the only town I'm willing to name from this lot is myself.


I see that JoeSapphire has made a monstrously big post, but I don't have the energy or clarity to go over it now. It'll have to wait until tomorrow, along with my reads.

Supplementscene does not seem to be someone that takes directions well. This game and last game he was told multiple times to read the setup yet it seems he never did and he frustrated a lot of people because of that. Makes me wonder if he was doing it on purpose to play the “I’m new and don’t know what I’m doing” card. So to answer your question I would say that no he does not strike me as the type that would listen to what others advise him.

Do you still think then that his play is the deciding factor of whether the mafia have Day-Chat, or at least one that should be weighed in?

I see your point and that should definitely be taken into consideration.

Do you think gogtrial and Joe are lying? If both of them had been playing like Joe I could see it, but gogtrial has been pushing and poking to find answers and if he’s scum then I’ll be totally surprised.