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Urgh, real life cropped up, and now I ran out of time.
I'm not going to be around posting anymore before the deadline, excepting maybe very quickly early European morning tomorrow, or if the deadline drags into the late evening. I'll try to monitor the thread from work in case I need to move to a different wagon to prevent no lynch, but no promises.
For the record, in case of last minute shenanigans, I wouldn't support lynching trent, HSL or Bookwyrm today. Everyone else is fair game, though my strong preference remains with my current vote.
I'm writing this after replying to these individuals but Gogtrial seems to have re-read and reposted in this thread yet has completely ignored my reply to him where I suspected him of being scum. Why no analysis there Gogtrial???

I'm pretty sure there is some Scum on my wagon.

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supplementscene: I think there potentially could be 4 Scum players on my Wagon yourself included. If there is higher number of Scum they could take a high risk strategy and create wagons with their numbers. If you think about it everyone had a different reason for voting for me. Just look at the way the wagon grew at haste.
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Lifthrasil: 4 scum players who are on your wagon in a coordinated fashion in a game which has a maximal scum faction size of 3... yea, right. I'll re-iterate a suggestion that you have gotten before: read the setup!

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supplementscene: Are Trent and Lift Scummy voting because I didn't explain when that explanation is there? You jump on the train for (and correct me if I'm wrong) for this reason and because of saying Poppy had good analysis? Also Trent's analysis isn't at all deep but I didn't think it was in the last game where he was town.

SPF also asked about my posting style. In a prior game Lift when Scum explained 'this is his posting style'. He hasn't in this game, when if you view it, it absolutely is. Can you answer this @LIFT Is that because he's got a townee comfortably on a wagon?
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Lifthrasil: Yes. I can answer that. I actually already did: I'm cutting you less slack than in the last game because you had time to learn. You even made a point of improving your game at the end of the last game. So I'm not treating you as an absolute newbie anymore and I expect better explanations from you. Also in the last game I was trying to pull you to my side by being intentionally understanding and helpful. I wanted to make you trust me and I wanted to make you mis-vote. Which succeeded. Was that mean? Yes. But as scum one has to pull all tricks to survive and buddying up to a townie who is under suspicion from others is one of the standard tricks. This time I don't know whether you're scum or town, but I wonder whether you coming to Poppy's help was support for a scum-buddy or whether you adopted the very trick I used against you in the last game. I.e. buddying up to a towny, (if Poppytek is a towny after all).

Also your reason for voting Poppy boiled down to 'I'm not sure'. That's not enough as a reason on it's own. Yes, as town one can never be sure. But you should at least have some reason to assume that your target has a higher chance of being scum than the others. Otherwise the entire game boils down to random voting. Not fun. And you weren't attacked for the reason you just quoted and bolded, but for the reason you gave with your actual vote and which you now conveniently omitted.
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supplementscene: VOTE POPPY - I know I'm Town 100%. I don't know if she is so it's a better to vote on that wagon and she seems as best first day lynch as anyone.
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Lifthrasil: Here you basically say (re-phrased, to make it clearer why it looks strange): 'I don't know her alignment so I might as well vote her, since there is already a wagon.' ... This reads very arbitrary, is applicable to any player (so nothing specific to her) and suggests that you vote for any wagon as long as it isn't on you.

If that was poor wording on your part which led to a misunderstanding, please clear it up. Let's turn the usual 'who is your preferred target' question around: are there any players which you definitely wouldn't lynch today? And if yes, then who and why?
Right but in my analysis a few posts prior to that I made it clear my choice was between 3 posters stating why and my change of vote was always going to be between you and Poppy. It was essentially because I thought one of you was probably Scum.

I also pointed out that IF Poppy/Vitek isn't Scum that means you very well could be. I pointed out the town/scum between you and Poppy/Vitek dynamic. That's when you changed your vote to me who was conveniently on the other wagon. Now if you are Scum you will know if Poppy/Vitek are Town, then we probably lynch you because you went after her/him first.

If you're Scum this is very smart play because you've smeared Poppy/Vitek for a lynch down the line anyway and you can get another Townee in myself right away. By not backing away from your Poppy/Vitek attack you can keep that one in the back pocket.

Would you have voted for me if there wasn't already a 3 long wagon? I find this suspicious tbh.

Also why did you not follow up Decimu saying "Hello Scums" on Post 47: 'Are you greeting your buddies with this, for some reason?'. Distancing and telling off at the same time while then ignoring it never happened? Maybe.

Decimu's reasoning for going after Poppy didn't make much sense and yours was random. Yet you become convinced

At the moment I'm going with Lift, Decimu and one other as most likely Scum buddies if there in fact just 3 of you. But Decimu made a random comment and maybe there's 2 more on my wagon.
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SirPrimalform: But it is a distraction. It's a complete waste if our innocent child spends the entire game throwing around accusations that he refuses to back up. I'm not trying to convince anyone he's scum, I'm trying to get him to actually be helpful.
I agree with the core of this and would love to have the only proven Town player to be as helpful as possible but also believe time and energy will be better spent looking at basically anyone else in the smaller pool of suspects. You are insisting on how distracting and Town damaging flub's unhelpfulness is but doing so against the only person we know for a fact is not a concern is equally useless and distracting, wouldn't you say?

Well, I should read whole posts before quoting specific paragraphs... Oh well.


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Lifthrasil: ~ I think if you actually were town, you wouldn't feel the need to offer yourself as the next mis-lynch in the case of the proposed lynch being a mis-lynch. You would know that that would be bad for town. No, this statement really reeks of "Look at me! I am even willing to sacrifice myself! See how towny I am?!" In other words, it is a very scummy statement. All in all I hereby promote you from the 'better than nobody' slot to the third place in my personal 'probably scum' list.
I really hope you're not scum as you're writing stuff pretty much verbatim of what I think on some of these matters. No wonder I don't see you as scummy as others do.


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supplementscene: I think there potentially could be 4 Scum players on my Wagon yourself included. If there is higher number of Scum they could take a high risk strategy and create wagons with their numbers.
I've heard it's top-shelf next-level scum strat to form a full-scum wagon on D1 just to make sure they get that sweet, sweet D1 myslynch. Things only get easier from then on and let's admit it - what could go wrong?!

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supplementscene: Flub and I thought she hinted at the Bulletproof role.
He did? Did you, @flub??

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supplementscene: I was initially torn between Poppy and Lift.
You were? Weren't you concerned Town Poppy would be lynched out of the blue because she brought up game setup? Was that concern strengthened by the half-chance of you jumping her as well?


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Lifthrasil: 4 scum players who are on your wagon in a coordinated fashion in a game which has a maximal scum faction size of 3... yea, right. I'll re-iterate a suggestion that you have gotten before: read the setup!
Dammit!!!


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HypersomniacLive: As things are, it effectively makes Vitek lynchable with one vote less than anyone and everyone else. If Vitek's town, scum can, and likely will take advantage of the situation.

With that in mind, his wagon went from 2 to 4 votes rather fast which makes me squint a bit at those last two votes on him.

Thoughts?
I'm not sure I follow this. Can you elaborate on what your point (and possibly suggestion) is? To prevent it by hurrying up elsewhere or something else?


I have another page which I can't read right now but will try to get back a bit later tonight.
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SirPrimalform: [...] See the beginning of this post. [...]
I did, and I still think what I was thinking when I asked you that question - you need to recalibrate you sarcasm-dar, me thinks.


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SirPrimalform: [...] It's more that I think flubbucket's reasoning wasn't well founded. [...]
His reasoning for unvoting, or for voting PoppyAppletree in the first place?


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SirPrimalform: [...] I think Vitek's our better lynch (key being the weird vig instruction from Poppy), but I would support the scene-wagon. [...]
Putting the Vig thing aside, what makes Vitek the better Lynch?



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mchack: [...] Clive : at the risk of gaining his wrath, I think I'd like to adobt Joes recommendation for the new nickname of the reluctant voter: Clive :D I love it. [...]
Have a face full o' me boot ye jelly boned thumb suckin' crud bucket!

You sure got the wrath part right.

But JoeSapphire isn't the first one giving me this nick, he's not even the second one; credit goes to bler144 who first came up with it a long time ago. Wanna guess why it didn't stick?


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mchack: [...] supplementscene : [...] make me think he's just out to vote and lynch anyone. [...]
It looks more like he's out to vote and lynch anyone that takes even a side look at him. He's done that in his previous games, which doesn't necessarily mean that he wouldn't use it as a baddy. But him self-preserving is expected regardless of alignment, imo.


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mchack: [...] bookwyrm : trying to look scummy for going after flub but not in earnest like spf seems to. in #162 says "seeing hints of TMI" ... What's TMI?

would vote for. [...]
What makes you think he was trying to look scummy?



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flubbucket: [...] I agree with this assessment. [...]
I should have said "besides post #40", as I was aware of it, as well as your reply to it, and the fact that he didn't come back with any counterarguments. I still think that you're reading too much into any of it.



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dedoporno: Did that actually happen as desribed? Well, I guess I'll be doing a read on Lift tonight seeing that they are supporting the wagon I liked the most.
How's that read going?


Can I has a bump?
bump
Cheers fatfingers!


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Lifthrasil: [...] Vitek didn't exactly do much to dispell the scummy impression that Poppy left. [...]
What did you expect Vitek to do? What action(s) from him would make you reconsider?


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Lifthrasil: [...] - the fact that she would have liked to lynch the only confirmed towny for personal reasons? [...]
You should know better not to use this to read into her alignment.


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Lifthrasil: 4 scum players who are on your wagon in a coordinated fashion in a game which has a maximal scum faction size of 3... yea, right. [...]
Heh. While it's unlikely four scum players are on his wagon, I do like how you leave out the possible SK in your argument, and speak only of the scum faction of mafia...



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JoeSapphire: [...] Mass claim anyone? [...]
I've already claimed (post #78).



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trentonlf: SPF has made my eyebrows go crooked a couple of times so I can see that, but the vibe I’m getting from Lift is town. What exactly are you seeing that’s made him a viable candidate today for you? Is what you said in post 216 the only thing?
Could you elaborate on the town-vibe from Lifthrasil?


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trentonlf: Vitek’s wagon is the perfect place for scum to hide if Vitek is town. Poppy was under a lot of suspicion and that makes Vitek a viable lynch for several people to try and clear things up, scum voting him can just blame Poppy’s behavior to lynch Vitek. I don’t think Poppy/Vitek is scum, when Poppy was in the game she gave me Town vibes after the pressure she was under with the responses she gave and since Vitek has subbed in nothing has changed my view of them being Town.

I also noticed when bookwyrm voted Vitek he left himself an out to remove the vote, made me wonder if it was in case the wagon didn’t gain any traction he could say “after reconsidering things I don’t think Vitek is a good lynch today so let me move my vote to xxxxx”
Yeah, I saw that too, now that I'm caught up.

SirPrimalform's ISO makes his vote stand out quite a bit.


Looks like I'm still not caught up. One more page to go.
When you see any votecount from me, please take a second to check that your name is shown voting for the correct person.

I've started adding "not voting" now.

Vote count:

supplementscene - 4: JoeSapphire, gogtrial, trentonlf, Lifthrasil
Vitek - 3: Dessimu, Bookwyrm, SirPrimalform
Lifthrasil 2: - mchack, supplementscene
HypersomniacLive - 1: Vitek
JoeSapphire - 1: HSL

Not voting - 2: flubbucket, dedoporno

13 players. Takes 7 to lynch.
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HypersomniacLive: Could you elaborate on the town-vibe from Lifthrasil?
For me a scum Lift is very reasonable and appears helpful but is over aggressive (usually on one person) and leaves doors open to step through in case his arguments are not working. The Lift I am seeing this game is one who is actually being helpful, trying to scum hunt, and while he is aggressive it's what I consider a good aggressive as he is not just focusing on one person. Maybe he's improved his scum game enough to fool me, but I am not feeling it this game.
Regarding Dessimu: he's been contacted and I'm also in touch with and looking for potential subs, but so far nothing concrete.

Until you hear otherwise, please assume Dessimu is still playing and his vote still counts, and the deadline is as it is.

I might move the deadline 2-3 hrs anyway for my own reasons (namely: I might be out and hate doing this on mobile). Or I might not if I'm not going out.
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HypersomniacLive: How's that read going?
It's not going Won't happen tonight either. I'm still not caught up with current posts to go back and re-read old ones. Thing is I'm seeing Lift speaking my mind on lots of points which is probably I find it hard to see him in a bad light.
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dedoporno: [...] I'm not sure I follow this. Can you elaborate on what your point (and possibly suggestion) is? To prevent it by hurrying up elsewhere or something else? [...]
When I made the post, my point was to see reactions, what others thought, especially about those two last votes. On a subconscious level, I probably had in mind that drawing attention to it might (may?) prevent it.

I'm not suggesting anything. I assume that those that don't scum-read the slot will vote elsewhere anyway, and everyone should take responsibility of their vote; no "HSL said to hurry up elsewhere" outs if the lynched one flips town.



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trentonlf: For me a scum Lift is very reasonable and appears helpful but is over aggressive (usually on one person) and leaves doors open to step through in case his arguments are not working. The Lift I am seeing this game is one who is actually being helpful, trying to scum hunt, and while he is aggressive it's what I consider a good aggressive as he is not just focusing on one person. Maybe he's improved his scum game enough to fool me, but I am not feeling it this game.
Does "scum!Lifthrasil" cover the case of him being the SK? If not, what play would you be expecting from him?


Aaaand I think I'm caught up for real now.
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dedoporno: [...] I'm not sure I follow this. Can you elaborate on what your point (and possibly suggestion) is? To prevent it by hurrying up elsewhere or something else? [...]
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HypersomniacLive: When I made the post, my point was to see reactions, what others thought, especially about those two last votes. On a subconscious level, I probably had in mind that drawing attention to it might (may?) prevent it.

I'm not suggesting anything. I assume that those that don't scum-read the slot will vote elsewhere anyway, and everyone should take responsibility of their vote; no "HSL said to hurry up elsewhere" outs if the lynched one flips town.

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trentonlf: For me a scum Lift is very reasonable and appears helpful but is over aggressive (usually on one person) and leaves doors open to step through in case his arguments are not working. The Lift I am seeing this game is one who is actually being helpful, trying to scum hunt, and while he is aggressive it's what I consider a good aggressive as he is not just focusing on one person. Maybe he's improved his scum game enough to fool me, but I am not feeling it this game.
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HypersomniacLive: Does "scum!Lifthrasil" cover the case of him being the SK? If not, what play would you be expecting from him?

Aaaand I think I'm caught up for real now.
Actually I’m not sure. I know Lift’s been a SK before and he was lynched Day 1 and the game ended, but I would have to go back to see how he acted then. Although I think his game has improved since then so it might be a moot idea to do.
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trentonlf: Actually I’m not sure. I know Lift’s been a SK before and he was lynched Day 1 and the game ended, but I would have to go back to see how he acted then. Although I think his game has improved since then so it might be a moot idea to do.
He acted suspicious AF back then at least from my point of view - if I remember correctly his character was related to mine in some way and some sort of discussion based on that came up that made me doubt him massively. I can't recall actual details though and won't be going back to check.

Caught up with recent stuff now. Won't be going back tonight. Maybe tomorrow if there is time.

I still feel content with my voting choice and since it's not entirely clear when the day may end I'll just add it now.

vote supplementscene
When you see any votecount from me, please take a second to check that your name is shown voting for the correct person.

Vote count:

supplementscene - 5: JoeSapphire, gogtrial, trentonlf, Lifthrasil, dedoporno
Vitek - 3: Dessimu, Bookwyrm, SirPrimalform
Lifthrasil 2: - mchack, supplementscene
HypersomniacLive - 1: Vitek
JoeSapphire - 1: HSL

Not voting - 1: flubbucket

13 players. Takes 7 to lynch.
Thanks for the bump, I refreshed in a new tab before posting and forgot to add my original post :/

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HypersomniacLive: Granted, PoppyAppletree did some eyebrow-raising and eye-squinting things, but I'm leaning towards her being an overly confident, if not a bit smug, townie who was (a tad) too caught up in her belief she knew best to the point of not being receptive to voices telling her that the mechanics/roles/Night-actions talk was far from helping town.
That's pretty much my read on her along with the strong reaction towards flub's playstyle which felt genuine Town annoyance in that context. Or it could have been irritation by a person who loves the game so much that would get irritated when they feel an opposing player is screwing up their team therefore taking away from the general enjoyment of the game. The latter being way too unlikely to account for it too much.


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gogtrial34987: For the record, in case of last minute shenanigans, I wouldn't support lynching trent, HSL or Bookwyrm today.
Put a gun to my head but I don't know what makes Wyrm a no-vote for you. Maybe it's because it's the middle of the night here and I'm tired as hell but I can't recall what might have made you think he's off limits.