Maybe this will help.

OKAY! It's time I name all the players from memory and say what I make of them!

VITEK - took over from poppy who I had good feelings about, as somebody pointed out kicking off with the only confirmed townsmember wouldn't be the best plan for scum. BUT some scums must just go with the flow and do what they want? I dunno. Vitek.
FLUBBUCKET - 90% sure he understands statistics.
SIRPRIMALFORM - I've been saying he's lurky but he's been doing alright. What has he said? Some nonsense with hypersomniaclive and a bunch of stuff about whether he meant to mean what about flubbucket. YUS!! Would vote for.
HYPERSOMNIACLIVE - Clive does a lot of post dissection. He asked SirP whether he thought posting 10 posts a day (not Day) and thoroughly examining players' posts (or something) was good town play, and I wasn't sure what he meant by it. Would vote for.
TRENTONLF - Should have won the last game. Jumped from the first biggest wagon onto the second biggest wagon, which then became the biggest and current weightiest wagon. Perhaps I should be concerned about that. I'm making a conscious effort to trust him, because I got a wee bit frustrated at those who didn't last game. WHO KNOWS IF IT WILL DAMN US ALL???
SUPPLEMENTSCENE - Is a little bit all over the place. Like last game he made an effort to create a dichotomy of lynchees (DOL) early on - but so did flubbucket and... someone else? I feel like he's contradicted himself - or someone pointed out that he contradicted himself... which seems significant, remind me who said that and what it was?
DEDOPORNO - Entertaining and straightforward. Maybe I trust him in the same way I trusted yogsloth. Argh!!!
DESSIMU - Been a little cryptic and enigmatic. Also some of his posts I don't understand where his brainworking comes from, but I think I get good vibes. VIBES?? JOE THIS IS NOT HELPFUL.
LIFTHRASIL - Being Lifthrasil. Got worked up with poppy... was it less forceful than it was in the past? I know it's bad and it's not how probability works but it feels silly suggesting he's mafia three times in a row. It's not that it's impossible it just feels stupid for thinking it. I would vote for Lifthrasil.
GOGTRIAL - Hamster guy! I like his questions! I like his calming influence. I like him, he seems like a great person. I would vote for him.
MCHACK - Only just started. Took over from Hunter who barely said two sentences. Would vote for. Probably he'll be useful to keep around for a little bit though because he's good at doing vote counts and stuff like that. Good work deputy!
JOESAPPHIRE - stand up guy, if a little long-winded and nonsensical. He seems a little out-of-touch so far this game, which is dreadful because he's so very rarely in touch all other games. He's got a pretty cool new picture though.
LAST PERSON IS BOOKWYRM WHICH IS OBVIOUS BECAUSE HE'S THE ONE I FORGOT LAST TIME I DID THIS. Black-and-white picture guy! Oh the memories. Was fairly absent and then posted a great big post which I can't remember any of now.


^ The above is all useless, no decent reads or anything. Thanks for reading.

Question for all: Who is your top three preferred lynches? Go!

Mine is: HypersomniacLive, SirPrimalform and supplementscene.

Hypersomniaclive - Maybe I read him wrong but that thing he said is getting into my head now - can you explain it for me, Clive? (I think we should call you clive - as in Hypersomnia Clive)
SirPrimalform - It just occurred to me, why is he being active? That's usually a bad sign from this guy! Also I think I give him an easier time because he's my friend outside of internet and that's NOT FAIR
supplementscene - I'm sure someone was right about saying something about someone and then saying the exact opposite.


Can people ask me to clarify and just ask general questions of each other (and answer them!) because as you can see I suck and we're all going to lose and it will be my fault.

Out with the old, in with the new!

Welcome Vitek!

Dang, dang, dang, just a few minutes here, and you already caught us.



Welcome mchack!

Clearly a Kolechian agent! Lynch, lynch, lynch!



If it were restricted only to player alignments, I'd not have asked him if there's an unrelated to the game factor that plays into it all so that I could take it into account. Judging by his reply to me there isn't, or at least he doesn't want to share it if there is, so I'm striking it off my list of probable explanations.



Could you point me to his post(s) before #51 that you read as him jumping to her rescue?


Your post #114 says that you're already doing homework, and I assume there's a thought process behind what you said about her flip and SirPrimalform's and supplementscene's alignments; sharing it hardly qualifies as (extra) homework, me thinks. At the very least, you could have answered my question about Lifthrasil.



I never said he'd succeed, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he wouldn't try to in his own way, does it?


I haven't excluded it as his playstyle lends itself as decent enough cover for a number of things, at least in early game.



Do you seriously think that flubbucket took PoppyAppletree's "I'm sure I'll live" as a bulletproof claim?


So Vitek should be held accountable for what PoppyAppletree posted without even being given the chance to interact with others?



I assume work was very interesting today, and you didn't get bored?


supplementscene has played exactly one game of regular forum mafia before this one. And even if you count the Secret Hitler one, that makes a grand total of two games. You consider one or two games enough to move him out of newbie territory?



I am in the process of making my own judgement, hence my interactions with you. I just find some things odd, and wondered if there isn't something else, an outside the game factor, that I should be taking into account, hence my question. Apparently there isn't, or you prefer we don't take it into account if there is. Either way, I'm discounting it, and moving on. I'm sorry my post came across as condescending to you when all I wanted was to be fair to you.


Yeah well, it wasn't clear to me because I misread "learning" as "leaning"; sorry.


So you initially town-read trentonlf, but because he switched his vote to you, you now consider he and P̶o̶p̶p̶y̶A̶p̶p̶l̶e̶t̶r̶e̶e̶ Vitek may be scum-buddies, yes?

Assume that both you and trentonlf are town, how is he supposed to be sure that he's currently voting a townie?

Welcome Vitek and mchack! Good luck getting caught up.

Poppy: Good luck working through whatever personal issues were meshing badly with this game. I sincerely hope a next experience will be more positive.
Hunter: you'll need to have a good long talk with your boss, and tell them that there's simply an order of priorities in life, where mafia ranks above work, and they'd better start accepting that reality pronto.

I've only glanced over the thread very swiftly - more from me in a couple of hours.

You started it by asking why is he unvoting? After he replied you went on to tell him he should continue with his vote on the replacement.
I can see this type of question if you are either suspectiong him or egging him on. You have no reason to suspect him and it is not a wagon you are on so you should have no reason to push him to get back in there so I wonder why are you doing it.

Last game, after adalia replaced deadbolt both ZFR and scene unvoted him, you seemed to have no issue with it ven though they were not mod-confirmed yet here it seems to trouble you.

Flub also made case against Poppy and voted her. That seems to me like legit part of play and one silly part of it make it smoke screen and more than deserving of vote? Surely it is quite usual thing to happen and it's not even something he pursued so it could be said most smoke screen in regards to it is done by you.
Sounds to me like you are OMGUSing for the distancing part which I indeed find unsubstantial.


Quickreads:
Book - NEI
scene - can go both ways right now - read list feels off and I don't like his questioning of Joe's RL but that I wouldn't call
SPF - doing it as scum or fool again?
Joe - felt off when I was observer but now I see he has very few posts and am not sure which one ticked me off
HSL - ton of questions as usual, some of them way too nit-picky, seems alright, so far.
Lift - yet again quite similar to last to 2 games for which I wrongly gave him pass last time. So scum? But again I am not feeling it ATM. Then I know he was fighting with townie post of the game so far. I think he should start arguing with ZFR
dedo - his usual strong self - neutral a slightly closer to town
trent - trenty as it gets, too soon to tell - neutral
Dessimu - closer to scum - for the "trent told me once this is bad so I vote"
gogtrial - I quite like what he is doing but I also dislike how he seemed to back off a bit and then soon voted the same way he was going before
Hunter/mchack - big null

So Dessimu, Lift, scen or Lift prehaps?

Tell me why I'm wrong.

I see you've started catching up and contributing. So tell me, why is your vote still on HSL? I get that it was initially a joke vote. But now that you do have some tentative reads and HSL isn't one of them, why don't you switch your vote to someone else? Someone you think could be scum?

Don't worry, when I know who I want to vote I will vote.

Well, work wasn't boring enough to go through all previous games. But I went through the start of the last 5 games in which I participated and there was no turning an RVS vote into a real vote. Either I switched or I didn't have an RVS vote to start with. But as I said it did happen once and I think it was on drealmer. Who was scummy enough to turn my RVS vote on him into a real vote. And I believe I was town in that game. I just haven't found in which game that was yet. ... But doesn't matter. That 'pattern' that Poppy claimed to have figured out from my previous games wasn't present in my previous games for the time that she actually participated here.

Concerning Scene: yes, he is still relatively new. But he does make a concious effort to learn from past mistakes. He even talked about that in the wrap-up of the last game. So no, I don't count him as an absolute newbie anymore. He isn't an experienced old-timer yet, but not a noob either.

I'm glad we agree on that. ;P

So then what I'm left with is the initial puzzlement about the why of the statement. If the thorough investigation wasn't related to Joe's behaviour or your impression of it, then why did you mention it? Are you writing nice sounding but effectively meaningless platitudes in order to "seem busy"? Or were you thinking in four directions at once, and skipped a few steps in writing down your thought process? My "let's interpret things positively" impression of you at this point is that you like making sweeping statements, and are frequently trying to convey the "feeling" of a matter. As I try to be very precise with my words, there's a strong disconnect there, and I find it hard to get into your mindspace. (To be very clear, I have you as my strongest scum lean by far (not that strong in absolute terms, but very strong for D1), so I don't intend to move my vote anytime soon. All the same I'm always questioning myself and wondering if I'm tunneling, so am also trying to interpret your behaviour as town before it's too late.)

So, just to confirm, there aren't specific points in any of those posts which you could now point to as giving rise to that impression? (I do understand we're many days hence by now - would've been good if you could've answered this when I first asked it.)

That's indeed always a very good angle for looking at things. If you look only at players "throwing heat" at the both of you, who all stands out for that to you? Any thrown heat in particular which strikes you as inconsistent?

deleted

scene, Lift, Poppy. Three islands of noteworthyness in a see of null reads. With Lift/Poppy I keep thinking "probably town vs town" and then keep realizing that no, it didn't feel like town vs town. I hope for lots of content from Vitek, so that if it comes down to a choice between no lynch and Vitek, I won't feel like it's really bad form to vote him.

Is this your first time as scum? Do you think Dessimu will have a deja vu feeling for your reads list as well?
Same question to you.

Oh, hey, I followed this exchange:
back to its origin:
and if that's the pointed out contradiction which you're thinking of, then it wasn't actually there, as it was based on a misreading. (And I misread it the same way, but am now wondering if I did so myself, or only noted it in HSL's quote together with his interpretation.)

So I voted scene in , which means that you see me backing off from him in the post before that, [url=https://www.gog.com/forum/general/gog_mafia_55_trouble_at_arstotzkan_boot_camp/post75]#75?
Or are you referring to the non-scene-directed posts in between (#85, #86, #91), where I was looking at some other people while waiting for an answer from him?

EBWOP: (10 minutes are sooo long.)
So I voted scene in #112, which means that you see me backing off from him in the post before that, #75?
Or are you referring to the non-scene-directed posts in between (#85, #86, #91), where I was looking at some other people while waiting for an answer from him?

When you see any votecount from me, please take a second to check that your name is shown voting for the correct person.

Vote count:

supplementscene - 4: JoeSapphire, gogtrial, trentonlf, Lifthrasil
Vitek - 2: Dessimu, supplementscene
flub - 1: Bookwyrm
HypersomniacLive - 1: Vitek
JoeSapphire - 1: HSL

Everyone else - 0
Not voting: everyone else

13 players. Takes 7 to lynch.

Please don't post in this thread if you're not participating.

If Poppy ends up being scum then it was a good vote, but the way you voted was a vote of convienence. “VOTE POPPY - I know I'm Town 100%. I don't know if she is so it's a better to vote on that wagon and she seems as best first day lynch as anyone.”

Your reason for voting her was because you don’t know if she’s town, and you preface that with a “I know I’m Town 100%”. If you’re town you shouldn’t know anyone who’s town except for flub and using that as your reason for voting is just a vote of convienence.


I don’t do lists, not a big fan of them. My preferred lynch is Supplementscene, and I have no interest in voting flub or a Vitek.

Heh.



Arrrrrr! Go slam yer head on a marlin spike ye pig faced butt scratchin' scurvy baboon! How dare ye betray me trust?! I told ye that Clive be me third middle name in confidence! IN CONFIDENCE!! Arrrrrr! Arrrrrr!


You want to lynch me over something I said, something you don't understand, and want me to explain to you... seems totally legit.

OK then - upon the advice of counsel, I must respectfully decline to answer your question based on my rights under the 25fth Amendment of the Forum Mafia Administration Thread.

...

...


Seriously though, I don't quite see what's so puzzling about it, nor why it's getting into your head. I asked SirPrimalform if he considers terrible play making less than 10 posts per day* that (additionally) don't (necessarily) go over everything posted by others.
Note that I didn't ask specifically about town play - you might have inferred that it was implied, but my question wasn't restricted to town play as it wasn't about flubbucket the Innocent Child.

You might want to reread the posts that provide the context (how it started, and how it evolved and ended): #16, #41, #45, #46, #48, #78, #79, #81.

*Definitions:
day = calendar day.
Day = game day, i.e. several calendar days.

Savvy now?



Emm...


Can I has a bump?