I thought it was a triple dog dare and a metal pole ;)

Are those really the only two choices? In all the whole world, it's only one or the other, and nothing else?

Granted, this is a valid viewpoint, but in this particular case those on my “leaning” list aren’t actually leaning very far. Certainly not far enough for me to believe a legitimate wagon will form on them that leads to a successful lynch.

And while I don’t have CPSVG as leaning scum – that’s actually rather my point. I don’t have him leaning anything… because he hasn’t posted anything. If I could go down in Forum Mafia history for only one thing, I’d love to be the guy that proves the value of instituting a “Lynch All Lurkers” policy. As you all have seen so clearly in this game, the strategy of simply not playing buys you a guaranteed pass. Nobody is going to lynch CSPVG or crist or Sage Today, because they don’t read Scum. Which means if they are Scum, they perpetuate a viable strategy for eternity: Don’t post, and Town will ignore you and allow you to continue forever. I didn’t really intend to make lynching CSPVG in particular any type of crusade – he just happened to be the lurkiest player in this game, so I voted for him. My unvote was 25% apology for causing offense and 75% acknowledgement that Town simply will refuse to lynch lurkers and will give them a free pass. Nobody is lynching a lurker Today, and possibly not ever. So my vote was wasted on a candidate that can’t win. (It’s a bit like voting for the Green or Libertarian parties in the USA!) Just a wasted vote that means nothing.

I must disagree. It may be risky, but I completely believe I have acted in a pro-Town way.

And what if I had not opened as such? What if I has simply… posted that “I was sorry I hadn’t been reading the thread, but will read tonight and post something later”? Would that be better? You see, I would be unlynchable in your eyes, wouldn’t I? You would stand at the front of the “Free Pass” line and hand me my ticket. “No lynch for you, Mr. yogsloth, your vague promises to play at some undefined later date display irrefutably “town behavior”.

If I hadn’t opened the way I did, we would still be in RVS a week later.

It’s just so terrible.

Why is it so hard to see how important it is to Town to post, be active, contribute, and solicit reactions and opinions? Will I never succeed? Is my quest forever doomed?

There’s a chance your post is very wet, but too dry. I like your thinking, but I can’t stand your reasoning. You mostly ask things, but never truly question. You use lots of reasoning in order to never figure anything out.

Vote HijacK

Just terrible. Obvious attempt to be all things to all people, and nothing to nobody at the same time. Plus you need to punished for that horrendous bullshit role claim last game that Town just swallowed down in one gulp. “Bulletproof Berzerker.” Good Lord. * So I listen to HSL after all and vote for my leading Scum candidate. Too little / too late, probably.

_____

Will we lynch anybody Today? We have right about 48 hours to go, and right now, my wagon is the only one with traction. I truly believed at the start of the game that Town would not lynch the most proactive and involved Townie for the third game in a row. I still have to have that faith.


*(That’s a joke, folks. I’m not voting anyone for something they did in a prior game. That’s like when your wife gets pissed off at you because of something you did in her dream.)

The part I bolded I totally agree with, it is the point I often try to make but never succeed at getting across either. The only way town wins is with that formula. But, the bad part about it right now is it's day 1. No matter how much it would be nice to have day 1 move along at a good clip with lots of relevant discussion going on I don't see it ever happening. There is no legitimate information to go on unless someone has a N0 action and only then if that N0 action was fruitful (ie flubs milk game).

Day 1 sucks majorly, it's boring and repetitive. Not much really goes on day 1 except pointless chatter. Trying to force discussion in the manner you have chosen (and the same as adaliabooks and bookwyrm did) seems to cause more drama and hurt for town then it does scum. I wish it was a viable strategy, but to me it does not come across as one and I'm not sure if it ever will.

As for the last part of your comment I literally laughed out loud when I read it. I have gotten in trouble before because of what I did in one of my wife's dreams (I don't even remember what she said I did or said in the dream), but the wife said it put her in a bad mood and it was my fault. There was no arguing at that point LOL

Here is a t-shirt you can wear.

Agreed. It often makes the endgame interminable.

EBWOP

@yogsloth Oh, the t-shirt thing wasn't a criticism. I was merely trying to echo your point in a tangential way. However, on review I could see how it could be taken the other way.

Maybe I'm too much of a geek, but there is also another particular irony with that shirt...
10 people...is also 16 in Hex which are the number of players in the game...

Hah, good point!

Still better than your post 1 claim.

Still better than your post 1 claim.

So...

This is a reality show, so I'm going to go to the confession cam now and spill my thoughts. I'm gonna start with Yog.

When I started I could easily imagine how Yog's action could be town+. That is to say, good for town. Now, I've read countless discussions online, so I've seen tons of ignorance, confusion, and people completely misunderstanding others (which we've already had in this very thread). So, while it was obvious to me how Yog's action could be helpful, I could also understand that not all people would see it. That's normal.

While the people who didn't see talked about it, Trent alone seemed eager to press those who claimed to know, asking for more details. I was of the belief that explaining what I thought Yog was up to would spoil the ploy, which is why I didn't want to discuss it. Trent kept pushing, which was suspicious to me, which is why I voted Trent. Everybody seemed to poo-poo the idea, and gently corrected my in my oh-so-stupid thinking, telling me to go back and play with my toys.

Later, I suspected hijack (which I do even more now, but will explain later), and people didn't even bother to respond to that, as if I hadn't said anything at all. Adalia called it a OMGUS reaction. Looking up the term, it seems to refer to someone being personally upset, and just lashing out at someone? "You called me a what, vote you!!!111" That wasn't the case at all, but I'll discuss that later. So this leaves me with two conclusions:

1) People think my explanation for voting hijack was valid and are mulling it over
2) People think it was so flawed it doesn't even merit attention

While I'd like to think I'm a super clever master player who can pierce the truth behind everybody's comments and #1 is true, I'm forced to consider if #2 is true. And if 2 is true, and I've been stupidly wrong about Trent and Hijack, then... maybe I'm wrong about Yog.

So, here's what I'd like to ask the group. People have said that it's crucial for town to always be honest, and never lie. Yog made two claims. He said he was town, and he said he was cop. Is there a situation where one could be town and lie about being cop? Can anyone see ANY strategy where that MIGHT be good for town?

Lift discussed it earlier (and I see Yog has asked what I'm asking), where it seems that if Yog is NOT cop, then he CAN'T be town either. Is that basically true? Does knocking out one knock out the other? I'll say this: I don't think Yog is cop. I haven't since the beginning. But I DO think he's town. So is that possible? I think he's lying about cop, but I still see a ploy that could be town+. However, people keep saying that town shouldn't lie, and while I can see how RARELY lying is certainly good, is it really that town should NEVER lie? IF I think Yog is lying about cop, does that mean I HAVE to vote for him, since town should NEVER lie? Or is it at ALL possible that one could be town, and still lie in a specific instance?

I thought Yog had a good plan when I first started, but people indicating my "perceptions" so far have been less than stellar forces me to question my "perceptive" view of Yog. Perhaps it's not that you guys really can't imagine anything, it's that you can't imagine a VALID ploy on Yog's part. Perhaps if I explained it (which I won't), you'd go "what? THAT'S what you thought he was doing?? Geeze that's stupid, no that isn't good." So share your thoughts on that. I still think Yog has been the most town+ so far, but my confidence in that is wavering.

Until then, I'll now discuss why I'm even more suspicious of Hijack.

I was very excited to start this game, but that enthusiasm has waned as this day has d-r-a-g-g-e-d on. I've been getting more and more bored as people started chatting, talking about jelly beans and alcohol, and other blather. If this is normal for the first day, I can't imagine what it would be like without something like yog's claim to discuss. I'd probably commit suicide, or start taunting people to lynch me.

Anyhoo, as a result of my growing boredom, I wrote a post about Stirring the Pot, where I threw out wild accusations and statements to motivate people to post, to add to this discussion. I was BORED. (yes acting coach, I know my motivation). Hyper commented a little and CS actually posted (!), but Hijack jumped all over it. I thought his response was much stronger than my post warranted (and porno seemed to agree, so I know I'm not alone in reading his post that way). His vote for me made me think he was hiding something (the best defense is a good offense). I did NOT vote for him because I was lashing out and was gonna "get him back".

One of the reasons Hijack voted for me was because he alleged that I was advocating a no-lynch, which I was not. I asked it about, to understand, I wasn't arguing for us to do it. His response seemed to be that even suggesting such a thing is a horrible crime, as if I should know this.

And then, agent goes and actually votes no-lynch. Not ask, not suggest, not recommend, but vote. And Hijack's response? Crickets. I specifically waited after agent posted to see what Hijack would say. I wanted to give him time to respond. Well, he's posted, and didn't even mention agent's action at all. Didn't vote for agent's OBVIOUSLY scummy behaviour, didn't chastise him for his vote, didn't comment on it at all. Which only makes me more convinced that his response and vote to me was false.

What's more, in my pot post, I told Hyper he needed to add more meat to his posts, I asked him to share more of his thoughts. And Hijack has now gone and essentially seconded that sentiment. So again, he doesn't seem to think my pot post was all that bad, which again makes his strong reaction suspicious to me.

Maybe I'm still being blind and just doubling-down on my stupid, but those are my thoughts, and why my vote is staying on Hijack.

(OMFG I thought the forum ate my post and i was going to have to retype this. Heart attack averted)

While there might be a few such cases, they are very very rare, and no on day 1.

Yes. A very weird case of masons when one of them is also a cop (so double role), and a different mason making the cop claim to prevent the night kill on the real one. Not a really plausible case though.

Yes. If yog is not a cop and he claimed cop, that means he is lying. Town shouldn't lie. So if yog is lying, he can't be town.


On a different note, since we are speaking about reality games and mafia, do take a look at the show Siberia if you can find it. Especially the first few episodes had quite a lovely mafia game feel in them.

Dedo: Unvoting yogsloth seemed necessary at the time. I felt a little uneasy about an, admittedly, unfounded fear I had that people may rush to off yogsloth because they were somewhat angry (or seemed to be angry to me). His unvote of me appeared to be both a necessary de-escalation and a courtesy (although he has since explained that this was not the really the case), which I returned so that we could return to some semblance of a 'normal' game.

I find it interesting that you (a to a lesser extent HSL) are making quite such a big deal of it.

BlueMooner: I would badly like to know what you think would be valid about being town and lying about your role (or anything else for that matter). As JMich has already pointed out, there may be a few outside instances where lying is helpful to town, but they are far and few between, and rather far-fetched as well.

So, you get scum points from me for believing that yogsloth is both lying about being a Town Cop and still a townie, especially since he has reiterated that he was not lying about this 'fact'.

In general: Quite honestly, I don't see myself voting again until nearer the deadline, and then it will most likely be another vote for yogsloth.

No, there is not a situation that it's good for town to lie. All it does is cause confusion for town and benefit scum. I lied last game about a night action and it got me lynched (as it should have) even though I was a town bodyguard trying to keep the attention away from me so I did not have to reveal my role. I should have revealed the night action without going into my role, would have been very easy to do. But because I lied it caused another townie to reveal his role because he thought I was scum. This is just one instance of what a townie lying can do to cause problems. Town should never lie, lesson learned from me.

Yog's has said he is not lying and if you are to believe he is town you can not believe he is lying. If that is the case then wasting the role of town cop to stimulate conversation and push the game along is a very bad town play. If he is lying then he can't be town and needs to be lynched because he is scum. The mantra of Lynch All Liars is there for a reason, it is a scummy play to lie and people who do need to be lynched because only scum should be lying.

So for me it's as simple as this when it comes to yog's, whatever ploy he is trying to do it is scummy. I can not think of a good reason for a town cop to come out and reveal himself in this situation, it does nothing to help town. It is not a very pro town play to come out of the gate revealing a crucial power role for town, and I believe yog's is a better player than to just waste a town power role like that. The only conclusion I can come to is that yog's is lying and only scum should be lying. If he is not lying and is really town cop then it's an extremely poor play on his part to do what he did.

Don't let day 1 discourage you. This is the hardest day of the game because there is so little to go on. All day 1 really turns out to be is a crapshoot, The only time it's been different was when some people in past games have had night zero actions that were able to reveal information that helped town. As a matter of fact yog's was a town cop in a game with night zero actions and he revealed RWarehall was a serial killer and it got RW lynched. But I don't think that has happened this game as no one has spoken up and said anything along those lines. So we have to just push through the day 1 drag and hope we are fortunate enough to catch scum.

Nice dumb play, but I don't believe it. Mental suggestion can easily be done through questions. This is thought quite early in the study of psychology.

I didn't realize I was tasked with calling everybody out for their stupid plays. Shame on me. I failed me post police function. I believe I already voted for agent once. Saw you scummier. Still do. Problem with that, "super clever master player"?

Your post was beyond terrible. "What are you hiding?" I mean, really? That was a legitimate question? Because I don't know about you all, but these type of fodder childish playground questions only distract the game.

What am I hiding. Pfff. Still gives me the kicks.

I'm to assume you expect me to simply believe you because of the reason?? Should I also assume you would extend the same to me had I done such a thing??

It's still WIFOM.

Your questions seem rhetorical and can only be answered with COMMANDER TAGGERT HAS SAVED US!!!

Your decision to come out as you did is yours to own. Blaming it on others potential playstyle does nothing.