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Sargon: Some of you are very good at expressing what is wrong with Fallout 3 as a Fallout game. I think it could be a good idea to write it down and send it to Bethesda, perhaps along with some things that you like about Fallout 3, if there is any. I don't know if they read any mail about Fallout 3 any longer, but if they do any criticism could have an influence on them, especially if it is repeated by many people.
They most likely do as they are going to do the next fallout game themselves. That is, if they aren't busy with the next Elder Scrolls.
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sear: Bethesda do not give a flying fuck. They refuse to communicate with websites which aren't dedicated to kissing their ass and will even ban forum users for merely linking to them. They aren't interested in outside critique in the least, and usually the things they end up fixing are things no competent developer would screw up to begin with.
That'd be Todd Howard only. Interesting that Stalker is mentioned. It did look like Stalker at times when going indoors in Fallout 3. But for some reason, Stalker has so much more atmosphere. Maybe it's because it's not in the usa, i dont know. Could Stalker become as revered as Fallout??
Post edited September 30, 2010 by drmlessgames
I loved Fallout 1, and Fallout 2, and I also liked Fallout 3 a lot. Ive probably clocked more hours into F3 then 1 and 2 combined (mostly due to F3 mods etc). Yes F3 is different than the first 2, its on a different engine, by a totally different team, but to me it still felt like fun, and in the end I see it as a continuation of the series, albeit on a different road then B.I. would've taken them.

Bethesda games are always throwing everything and the kitchen sink in there and praying it works. I cant imagine the technical headaches involved in doing what they do when it comes to developing "sandbox" rpgs, the fact the engine can also handle these wild changes that mod makers come up with just make a Bethesda game worth more and more over time.

Now yes I realize that Bethesda should be making the games "AAA" themselves and not relying on mods, but id rather have them as an option then none at all. And in F3's case I was able to play it through beginning to end on my first run through without any mods at all, and thoroughly enjoy myself. The changes made to the "Oblivion Engine" in F3 were everything I wanted to change in Oblivion, it refined the overbearing scaling used in Oblivion to a better method, it used a traditional xp system instead of the 'grindy 'spreadsheet-checkin-to-perfect-level oblivion one, sure it had rough edges, taking a system designed for P&P turn based gameplay to real time, shooter gameplay isn't going to be without flaws, but for their first try I felt it was a good one.

In fact if they take some of what they learned trying to mimic the Fallout theme (in writing, skill checks, questing, combat etc), and maybe also take a look at what Obsidian changed/refined ontop of their "F3 engine", and apply them to the next elder scrolls or Fallout 4 game, maybe we can look back on unmodded oblivion as the "awkward puberty moment" for Bethesdas game design. :D
Post edited October 03, 2010 by ZombieSupaStar
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Sargon: I haven't played Fallout 3 yet but I find that there are many things that I like about it. The visions of post nuclear cities look very beautiful and interesting. Bethesda are very talented with graphics, and when I say that I'm not talking about polygons and resolutions.
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RatherDashing: I dunno, I think they've taken a nasty hit to their artistic direction since Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind. Still, if I was to complain about anything(and I did, above, and the list goes on), I would have to put this near the bottom as a very minor "this could be improved a bit" mention.
My guess is that is best played as a rpg game set in the Fallout universe or a rpg game inspired by Fallout and Fallout 2 rather than a true Fallout successor.
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RatherDashing: It's best played as a particularly bad shooter that happens to have a "pause" feature and random ascending numbers that affect nothing, but sort of give off the impression that this is an RPG if you aren't paying attention.
The really great thing about Fallout 3 is that it has revived the interest in Fallout and managed to introduce the setting to a multitude of new players. This in turn has made it more likely for others to make their games in the Fallout setting as seen with Obsidian's Fallout: New vegas. Especially since Bethesda allows other studios to develop in the setting.
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RatherDashing: I will say this: Fallout: New Vegas and Fallout Online show promise. I really am interested in what they have to offer, though not as interested as I would be pre-Fallout 3.

But I really don't care if "the masses" are introduced to Fallout, because people are dumb. Most won't go back and play the originals, and most won't see the "3" as an indication of anything but "there are two other games in this series with a lower polygon count, so I should go with the bigger number". Much the same with film, people are stupid and shallow and you can't teach them anything by any means.

I love how you start of by saying that you're not going to mean to people who like Fallout 3 then go on to call them "stupid and shallow". I loved all 3 of the main Fallout series( 1, 2, and 3). But, wait a minute that's not possible, how can I like Fallout 3 it doesnt have the stupidly steep learning curve, outdated gameplay mechanics or retro isometric view graphics. We musn't advance the genre!
Post edited October 03, 2010 by rjp150
Fallout 3 would be absolutly good game if it would have name like Wasteland: After Apocalypse or Fallout: Vault 101

Fallout 3 is just a wrong name for it that confuse fans of Fallout series.
When they were making Fallout Tactics they didn't name it Fallout 3.

It's like like making Halo 4 a racing game. It could be the best racing game ever but it won't be good game for fans , more like kick in nuts.

What if new Uncharted 3 will be a thief tycoon ?

If someone add a numer it is next part of some saga or idea. When they added 3 in Fallout they lied to their fans.
I'm one of the few who did not like Fallout 1, but liked 2 and loved 3.

Why? I dont know, I just cant play FO1 without getting frustrated. FO2, I have fun, FO3, hell I made my own mods to suit my own playstyle cause I was so into it.

As much as everyone dislikes Fallout 3 as it is, this is the way of gaming. I tell you, even if FO3 was 3d, but still isometric and turn-based, it wouldnt have sold as much, and would probably be hated more, because it DID NOT INNOVATE ENOUGH.
Fallout 3 is just a mediocre movie-like experience. Fallout 1 and 2 are more like games. I was just playing Fallout 3 again, and for the base game, its overall wasteland is much less in size than Oblivion's Cyrodil. I suppose that was because for Oblivion they more or less threw the almost entire game in one drop, whereas in Fallout 3 they had planned to have several DLCs to expand the base game.Should've put my topic on arcanum 2 here . Some members like from the "Not Fallout 3" review would probably enjoy another older rpg redone by Bethesda.
Post edited October 11, 2010 by drmlessgames
On the other hand I only bought Fallout 1&2 because of Fallout 3.
I am not allowing myself to play 3 until I finish 1&2.
I can't get into FO1 or 2 because of the combat difficulty, but I LOVED FO3.
I have the same feeling about Fallout 3, as a game, as I did with Oblivion. Its a very large game with little real content to play with and a somewhat lackluster storyline crammed with celeberties.

Storyline: As I just wrote I found the main storyline in Fallout 3 to be a somewhat lackluster experience. Some sidequests had logic faults, like the vault filled with crazies who miraclesly survived instead a nonfunctioning vault or the return to your own vault followed by immediate banishment. While this was probably a homage to Fallout 1, it was poorly thought out as in Fallout 1 they banished you AFTER your adventure (because you had changed to such a degree that they were now frightened of you) but in Fallout 3 you were banished, presumably somewhat shortly after leaving, on some rather dubious reasons.
Ofcourse my main problem was with the ending.
First off they made a final ending knowing fully well they might make a dlc which took place AFTER the ending, which ofcourse opted them to remake the ending proving that their ending was very poorly written and executed. Also the ending sequence itself didnt make any kind of sense what so ever, you had 2 companions whom were either immune to the effects or thrived on radiation, yet the writers hadnt taken that option into account which made them look like complete assholes for forcing you to sacrifice yourself.
Finally there were the limited end credits, as to which I would say that if your not going to do things properly then you shouldnt do them at all. They only reflected a few of your choices.

Gameplay: Fallout 3 was more or less an FPS version of Oblivion with all the greatness and flaws that follow. Its always fun to roam around in a sandbox world and do your own thing, for awhile atleast, but Fallout 3 suffered from the same problem Oblivion did, lack of actual content. While they certainly made an effort to make the dungeons and such have more of an importance to them in Fallout 3, they still suffered from the copy paste syndrom from Oblivion. And ofcourse they still retained the simplicity from Oblivion, of being "go in, kill, loot and go out" (which in itself isnt bad thing).
Continuing on the simplicity thing Fallout 3 also suffered somewhat from being made for a console as almost everything is instanced. This is mostly a change I noticed from Morrowind to Oblivion, which game engine Falllout 3 also uses.
-Diffilculty wise I found Fallout 3 to be far too easy even on the harder difficulties. Theres nothing wrong with a game actually demanding something from a player, or actually punishing a player for wrong choices. Tthe carebear mentality really has ruined many a game for me.
-Mechanic wise I found the game to have been, for some strange reason which would have nothing to do with it being a console game, simplified. The VATS was more or less an easy mode. They removed damage threshold, which made it possible for someone to kill a powerarmored foe with a bat (SHOULD NOT HAPPEN!!!!). You could max all of your stats (I mean comeone atleast try to make stat selection actually matter). And overall removed some of the more permanent choices from the game.

Design: While I found the atmosphere to be perfect, if not somewhat lowres even for its time, I did and still have a few issues with the games art design.
The Brotherhoods powerarmor looks more like a bucket and a lunchbox, rather then something which would actually protect you in any way shape or form. It also didnt have any kind of insolation, especially when worn by the player, so why it would protect against radiation is beyond me.
The Enclaves power armor looked for like it should, but one thing I was disappointed about regarding both suits was the lack of bulk. They simply hugged the characters they were on, none of them really looked all that much like it would protect you against all powerfull weaponry.

Modding: Now this is where the game shines. The incompetence of game devs are quickly improved when the community is presented with a mod tool. And many game developer have enjoyed increased succes and longevity because of their mod tools.
Its an extremely powerfull tool which sadly also seems to excuse developers from doing their best.
Post edited October 14, 2010 by korhian
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KaZip: I'm one of the few who did not like Fallout 1, but liked 2 and loved 3.

Why? I dont know, I just cant play FO1 without getting frustrated. FO2, I have fun, FO3, hell I made my own mods to suit my own playstyle cause I was so into it.

As much as everyone dislikes Fallout 3 as it is, this is the way of gaming. I tell you, even if FO3 was 3d, but still isometric and turn-based, it wouldnt have sold as much, and would probably be hated more, because it DID NOT INNOVATE ENOUGH.
You missed the point. People here hate Fallout 3 not because it isn't isometric or turn based. They hate it because of a lousy script, voice acting and unbalanced SPECIAL system.
I loved Fallout 3 though I didn't think it was as good as the first two. I think a lot of the hate originates from the game being a sequel to two amazing games while not matching them in quality.

Same thing with Deus Ex: Invisible War. It wasn't such a bad game, it was just bad compared to the original DX.
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Summit: You missed the point. People here hate Fallout 3 not because it isn't isometric or turn based. They hate it because of a lousy script, voice acting and unbalanced SPECIAL system.
What about the many numerous bugs and the lack of anything resembling concern about it from Bethesda?
Unfortunately, I missed out on the so-called "golden-age" of Fallout, due to my parents hooking up wayyy too late :P
In fact, I hadn't even heard of Fallout until Fallout 3 was announced. Then I looked into it. I loved the idea, the storyline, the lore. I instantly came here and purchased the first two, and didn't even bother with the third until recently.
I was amazed at how much had changed. The graphics were far better, but the story and the immersion that I had taken for granted in the Interplay games was gone, only a shell of itself. I may have been raised on FPS's, but at least I can see a step back when its right in front of me. Don't misunderstand me, I think that Fallout 3 is a great game, but I think that it suffered from poorer writing. If they could have pulled off, with better graphics and an immersive, open-world, what Black Isle did beautifully with the technological drawbacks of their time, then who knows what we would be talking about right now.
Just a side note, for anyone who hates on the combat in FO3 - real-time WAS coming whether you liked it or not, in Van Buren. A shame that it couldn't make it to the party...
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KaZip: As much as everyone dislikes Fallout 3 as it is, this is the way of gaming. I tell you, even if FO3 was 3d, but still isometric and turn-based, it wouldnt have sold as much, and would probably be hated more, because it DID NOT INNOVATE ENOUGH.
*cough* Van Buren *cough* :P
Post edited October 17, 2010 by Typhoon45
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Summit: You missed the point. People here hate Fallout 3 not because it isn't isometric or turn based. They hate it because of a lousy script, voice acting and unbalanced SPECIAL system.
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hedwards: What about the many numerous bugs and the lack of anything resembling concern about it from Bethesda?
Frankly those bugs you mention did not spoil my experience with Fallout 3. Many games these days, especially such complex and huge as Fallout 3, are riddled with bugs. I really liked F3 from a technical point of view. The exploration of Capital Westeland was really a great thing. Untill you stumbled into any generic NPC. The dialougues were just horrible. The whole story was stupid. That's it for me.
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Summit: Frankly those bugs you mention did not spoil my experience with Fallout 3. Many games these days, especially such complex and huge as Fallout 3, are riddled with bugs. I really liked F3 from a technical point of view. The exploration of Capital Westeland was really a great thing. Untill you stumbled into any generic NPC. The dialougues were just horrible. The whole story was stupid. That's it for me.
Which version were you playing? I found the bugs to be a lot worse with the PC version than my PS3 GOTY edition copy. I can't recall ever having played a game so plagued with bugs. It was bad enough that I'd have to play through portions several times because it would keep crashing and the dialog kind of went out the window as a result as I wasn't reading it anymore.