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This series is HUGE in Japan, as they made over 20 sequels and many remakes (that are released in Japan only)

That is beyond ungrateful, we supply them with a great series, and in turn they horde the games they made to themselves.

Seriously this ticks me off so much...
Post edited November 15, 2015 by Dartpaw86
That's because such games aren't popular in the West and definitely not among PC users. PC users want solo-hero ventures in level-scaled world and linear dungeons (alternatively - in entirely random generated dungeons) - at least that's what concerns mainstream.
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Sarisio: That's because such games aren't popular in the West and definitely not among PC users. PC users want solo-hero ventures in level-scaled world and linear dungeons (alternatively - in entirely random generated dungeons) - at least that's what concerns mainstream.
We're talking about "Wizardry" A series that has 6 heroes, isn't level scaled, and almost every dungeon is a maze.

And Wizardry (Along with Bard's Tale and Might and Magic, which are all very similar) were VERY popular. Maybe not these days, but at the time Japan started doing the "No export for you!" they were still relevant in North America.

Also keep in mind, there are still North Americans making retro games like Legend of Grimrock (which was very successful) and is the exact opposite of the formula you mentioned, and then there are videogames like "Etrian Odyssey" which is a modern series designed like one of those old style dungeon crawlers. It's even outright stated to be inspired by Wizardry and the like, and guess what, they sell very well too. Hell they're already remaking the original Etrian Odyssey games despite being hardly even ten years since the original releases. (well, updated re-release, as it's really the same games just a ton of new features and the graphics are a little polished up)
Post edited November 15, 2015 by Dartpaw86
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Dartpaw86: We're talking about "Wizardry" A series that has 6 heroes, isn't level scaled, and almost every dungeon is a maze./qu

And Wizardry (Along with Bard's Tale and Might and Magic, which are all very similar) were VERY popular. Maybe not these days, but at the time Japan started doing the "No export for you!" they were still relevant in North America.
Yes. That was how many years ago? Since Sir-Tech decided to overempasize graphics and new features like level-scaling by demand of publisher, and ever since 3DO started enforcing policy "1 game per year, release even Alphas", PC publishers decided to go safe routes and focus on maximum mainstream.
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Dartpaw86: Also keep in mind, there are still North Americans making retro games like Legend of Grimrock (which was very successful) and is the exact opposite of the formula you mentioned, and then there are videogames like "Etrian Odyssey" which is a modern series designed like one of those old style dungeon crawlers.
Legend of Grimrock is of entirely different subgenre (real-time... entirely different approach and pacing). And Etrian Odyssey games are made in Japan and never released for PC, so... I can list you tons and tons of Wizardry-likes and such, which you'll never find on PC. Call of Duty brings money. Mass Effect brings money. Turn-based party-based games (specifically first-person view) with emphasis on exploration are considered to be niche. Gigantic thanks to Ghostlight for bringing Elminage Gothic to PCs, as it is basically the only such PC game released since the end of Might and Magic and western Wizardry series. By the way, if you didn't play Elminage yet, and you like old WIzradries, it is a must-play, because if you have seen list of Wizardry games compiled by me, it is part of Wizardry series - both officially, and mechanically.
Post edited November 15, 2015 by Sarisio
At least we have Elminage Gothic and that one japanese Wizardry game that got released on PSN in English.

Though dungeon crawlers are really not THAT popular in the west. A few developers wanted to make one but most Kickstarters campaigns of this genre failed by large margin.
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RyaReisender: At least we have Elminage Gothic and that one japanese Wizardry game that got released on PSN in English.

Though dungeon crawlers are really not THAT popular in the west. A few developers wanted to make one but most Kickstarters campaigns of this genre failed by large margin.
Bard's Tale IV had a successful Kickstarter (though that game hasn't been made and released yet). Also, the early games in the series are getting remastered.

By the way, you might want to check out Dragon Wars if you haven't already. It isn't a dungeon crawler, but it has that same first person view and the same turn-based battle system that Bard's Tale 2 and 3 have. Also, no level scaling. (Instead, the effect of leveling up is minor; most of your power comes from equipment and spells.)
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dtgreene: the early games in the series are getting remastered.
This I am looking extremely forward to, because I have had a lot of issues with the collection on this site. Though I more or less fixed the "runs too fast" issue though don't remember how. But that wasn't what caused me to rage quit, but the fact I couldn't figure out how to rest... I'll look through the manual again :)
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Dartpaw86: We're talking about "Wizardry" A series that has 6 heroes, isn't level scaled, and almost every dungeon is a maze./qu

And Wizardry (Along with Bard's Tale and Might and Magic, which are all very similar) were VERY popular. Maybe not these days, but at the time Japan started doing the "No export for you!" they were still relevant in North America.
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Sarisio: Yes. That was how many years ago? Since Sir-Tech decided to overempasize graphics and new features like level-scaling by demand of publisher, and ever since 3DO started enforcing policy "1 game per year, release even Alphas", PC publishers decided to go safe routes and focus on maximum mainstream.
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Dartpaw86: Also keep in mind, there are still North Americans making retro games like Legend of Grimrock (which was very successful) and is the exact opposite of the formula you mentioned, and then there are videogames like "Etrian Odyssey" which is a modern series designed like one of those old style dungeon crawlers.
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Sarisio: Legend of Grimrock is of entirely different subgenre (real-time... entirely different approach and pacing). And Etrian Odyssey games are made in Japan and never released for PC, so... I can list you tons and tons of Wizardry-likes and such, which you'll never find on PC. Call of Duty brings money. Mass Effect brings money. Turn-based party-based games (specifically first-person view) with emphasis on exploration are considered to be niche. Gigantic thanks to Ghostlight for bringing Elminage Gothic to PCs, as it is basically the only such PC game released since the end of Might and Magic and western Wizardry series. By the way, if you didn't play Elminage yet, and you like old WIzradries, it is a must-play, because if you have seen list of Wizardry games compiled by me, it is part of Wizardry series - both officially, and mechanically.
That's interesting to know :)
Post edited November 15, 2015 by Dartpaw86
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dtgreene: the early games in the series are getting remastered.
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Dartpaw86: This I am looking extremely forward to, because I have had a lot of issues with the collection on this site. Though I more or less fixed the "runs too fast" issue though don't remember how. But that wasn't what caused me to rage quit, but the fast I couldn't figure out how to rest... I'll look through the manual again :)
Those games did not implement resting. To heal, you need to use the temple, healing spells, or the healing bard songs. To restore spell points, wait outside in the sun, use Roscoe's, or (in BT3, which lacks Roscoe's) use a Harmonic Gem. To make it day, go back to the Adventurer's Guild.
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Dartpaw86: This I am looking extremely forward to, because I have had a lot of issues with the collection on this site. Though I more or less fixed the "runs too fast" issue though don't remember how. But that wasn't what caused me to rage quit, but the fast I couldn't figure out how to rest... I'll look through the manual again :)
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dtgreene: Those games did not implement resting. To heal, you need to use the temple, healing spells, or the healing bard songs. To restore spell points, wait outside in the sun, use Roscoe's, or (in BT3, which lacks Roscoe's) use a Harmonic Gem. To make it day, go back to the Adventurer's Guild.
That sounds complicated, or rather just because I'm not used to that.
All the Japanese Wizardries have anime artowork, so nothing is lost as far as this Wizardry fan is concerned.

Also, I've got the impression that Japanese games in general are highly linear, revolves around a "chosen one" (usually a a spikey haired punk with a huge sword), and you pick up companions (usually 8 year old girls in skimpy outfits) instead of creating your own party.
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PetrusOctavianus: All the Japanese Wizardries have anime artowork, so nothing is lost as far as this Wizardry fan is concerned.

Also, I've got the impression that Japanese games in general are highly linear, revolves around a "chosen one" (usually a a spikey haired punk with a huge sword), and you pick up companions (usually 8 year old girls in skimpy outfits) instead of creating your own party.
You're probably right, even then it would be interesting just to compare/study how much the two styles differ. But maybe THAT'S why they didn't come over here, because North Americans would riot if the formula was changed, and the Japanese Wizardries in turn might as well be their own separate series.

Also in the earlier games a powerful "joke" weapon "The Blade of Cuisinart" was completely lost on the Japanese as Cuisinarts aren't sold there. They took it seriously as a badass weapon.

Though to be perfectly honest, your description, makes me want to see what the Rawulf and Felpurr look like in pure anime fashion (If the games are drawn like the "Tales of" games like I imagine them to be) though I heard that some of the exclusive games have "only humans" Boooring...
Post edited November 16, 2015 by Dartpaw86
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PetrusOctavianus: All the Japanese Wizardries have anime artowork, so nothing is lost as far as this Wizardry fan is concerned.

Also, I've got the impression that Japanese games in general are highly linear, revolves around a "chosen one" (usually a a spikey haired punk with a huge sword), and you pick up companions (usually 8 year old girls in skimpy outfits) instead of creating your own party.
The Elminage series, to my understanding, is different.

You can, indeed, create your whole party in the series.

Elminage 1 (and Elminage Original) are not linear at all past the first dungeon.

Elminage Gothic (which I have played) has a linear main quest, but there are a lot of optional dungeons and optional sidequests encountered throughout the game. A couple early dungeons have only one mandatory floor, the rest being optional. (Note that accessing the final bonus dungeon does require playing through the rest, but by that point the other dungeons should be really easy combat wise, and if they aren't, you are not ready for the final, brutal, bonus dungeon.)

If you haven't played it already, I highly recommend Elminage Gothic. (I should warn you that the game is, indeed, quite brutal, complete with enemies that can behead or level drain you.)
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PetrusOctavianus: All the Japanese Wizardries have anime artowork, so nothing is lost as far as this Wizardry fan is concerned.

Also, I've got the impression that Japanese games in general are highly linear, revolves around a "chosen one" (usually a a spikey haired punk with a huge sword), and you pick up companions (usually 8 year old girls in skimpy outfits) instead of creating your own party.
Uh oh, this sounded a lot like genre bashing with so many generalization involved. And so you wrote all this without looking even into a single Japanese Wizardry? Any Japanese Wizardry game is closer to classic Wizardry than WIzardry 8 was. And they are more realistic in the sense, that world isn't composed from shades of grown and gray, it has a lot of very vivid green. blue, yellow and other colors, just like in actual real world.
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Dartpaw86: You're probably right, even then it would be interesting just to compare/study how much the two styles differ.
There is just way too much prejudice toward Japanese games among PC gamers and way too much bashing going around without any solid arguments. If you will look at same Elminage and compare it to classic WIzardry you will see basically same game systems after many iterations. Some people say Japanese games linear, but I find quite the opposite, and it is definitely not the case with Japanese dungeon crawlers.

And as I wrote before in other thread, the more I play Japanese games, the harder it is for me to appreciate new Western games. The only Western games I still can appreciate are those made before 2000. The older I become the more I appreciate vivid colors, attractive heroes and non-restrictive game systems.
Post edited November 16, 2015 by Sarisio
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Sarisio: There is just way too much prejudice toward Japanese games among PC gamers and way too much bashing going around without any solid arguments. If you will look at same Elminage and compare it to classic WIzardry you will see basically same game systems after many iterations. Some people say Japanese games linear, but I find quite the opposite, and it is definitely not the case with Japanese dungeon crawlers.
It's really anything by Square-Enix and Tales of that are linear with pre-set characters (Even then some of those games avert it) but really, I was just going by what the other posters said, I know nothing about any of this.
My favorite remake of Wizardry 1-3 is the SNES version which was released 1999 (way after the SNES was popular, so most people haven't even heard of it). There is a 100% translation patch for it.

Japanese Wizardrys aren't more linear than Wizardry 1-3. They are nothing like Wizardry 6-8, though. They are all based on the original system.

My favorite dungeon crawler is still Shining in the Darkness, though. (I like it simple.)

Dragon Wars has slightly too outdated graphics for my personal taste. Though that's mostly related to my experience that the old games are way harder to control than necessary.
Post edited November 16, 2015 by RyaReisender