It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
Community
Wizardry seriesW8 vote for the most useless spell picks(29 posts)(29 posts)
(29 posts)
Pages:
1
2
This is my favourite topic
Posted October 05, 2023
Charm (why would you anger NPCs, especially vendors, especially since Pickpocket is near useless)?.
Mindread is only useful if you're a super-nerd, and need to hear every bit of dialogue.
Blinding Flash is great if you want enemies running away from you, to prolong the battle, and lose experience from enemies not killed.
Slow is great if you want battles to take even longer than they already do.
Terror, Sonic Boom and Pandemonium are great if you want enemies afraid of you, running away, prolonging battle, and losing experience from enemies that ran away.
Prismic Ray and Prismic Chaos are great if you like RNG, and can't predict what will happen to the enemy, including blinding and fear.
Dracon Breath is great if you have non-Dracon party members who don't want to get any skill increases.
Draining Cloud doesn't drain any mana from enemies (they have infinite mana).
Razor Cloak and Eye for an Eye do automatic damage to enemies, which reduces skill ups, while I'd rather do direct damage to the enemy.
Ring of Fire does mediocre damage to enemies, and this is assuming that you get a melee swarm.
Blizzard does decent damage, but can cause blindness, causing enemies to run away, robbing you of experience.
Firestorm does mediocre damage over time, but no status effects.
Shadow Hound wakes you up from camping in the open, but who does that?
Turncoat grants you a friend, but prolongs the battle, forcing you to kill your old friend when it wears off.
Hex doesn't seem to have much effect, other than maybe causing enemy casters to fizzle more often?
Hypnotic Lure does seem to help sometimes, causing enemies to lose their turns, however, it's bugged, causing enemies to sometimes enter the void, costing you experience if you can't kill them (and the sound is annoying).
What do you think? What should a Bishop avoid picking at level up?
Posted October 05, 2023
Some counterpoints:
(Note: This is assuming reasonable levels, and also assuming Arnika before UBC)
* Blinding Flash: Works against Gregor, and can be useful on Arnika Road. Especially nice since Alchemists don't get that many good spells that early, and no other (non-Light) fire spells until level 8.
* Terror/Sonic Boom: Again, might be useful on Arnika Road. Also, Sonic Boom can be cast outside of combat.
* Prismic Ray/Chaos: These spells are good Psionic picks since there's no spellbooks for them. Also, it gives them high level non-Psionic attack spells, and when Prismic Chaos does damage, it's apparently as powerful as Tsunami.
* Draining Cloud: More SP for Heal Wounds/Summon Elemental, plus it's not affected by Element Shield. Also, no spellbook for it, so good Alchemist pick.
* Ring of Fire: At low power levels, it's significantly better than Acid Cloud, plus you don't need to worry about initiative. Also, this spell can't backfire.
* Hypnotic Lure: Good practice spell, since you can reset the timer by saving and reloading. Also, usable outside of combat, and it apperently may work on enemies who would otherwise have high fire resistance. Furthermore, grouping the enemies into a small area means they're easier to hit with area effect spells.

For Bishops specifically, I'd avoid Falling Stars because Earthquake is better. (It's a good pick for a Power Cast Priest, though I'd still take Restoration first.)

There's other spells to avoid because you can purchase them in Arnika early on, like most low level Mental and Divine spells. I'd also put Knock Knock and Rest All in this category. Worth noting, however, that Mind Stab and (if you don't want to rely on a random drop) Holy Water are worth picking. Whipping Rocks is also worth picking even if you do UBC early because, for whatever reason, it's not buyable until level 11.
Posted October 05, 2023
Slow.

Bishop should learn all spells, from books whenever possible.


Razor cloak can be essential in a mod, oo in vanilla for no physical dmg parties on their elementals,
imagine a close combat only monster of AC99, 99% dmg resistance, immune to magic and regenerating few HP/turn,
Posted October 06, 2023
In a grinding party like mine, I'm looking for experience and skill increases. I want to be in the teens before leaving the Monastery, especially since you can get level 10 Higardi Brigand, level 10 Queen Ants, and level 10 Cultists (rare), on the Arnika Road.
I'm not going for blinding or fear effects, since that cheats me of experience for fighting a said group. I have a hard-hat mentality, grind all enemies until I reach my destination.
I am creating powerful Bishops that don't need to be carried on the way to Arnika. Maybe they won't get all 101 spells, but they sure will be powerful later on, once they get the important spells.
Posted October 06, 2023
avatar
RChu1982: In a grinding party like mine, I'm looking for experience and skill increases. I want to be in the teens before leaving the Monastery, especially since you can get level 10 Higardi Brigand, level 10 Queen Ants, and level 10 Cultists (rare), on the Arnika Road.
I'm not going for blinding or fear effects, since that cheats me of experience for fighting a said group. I have a hard-hat mentality, grind all enemies until I reach my destination.
I am creating powerful Bishops that don't need to be carried on the way to Arnika. Maybe they won't get all 101 spells, but they sure will be powerful later on, once they get the important spells.
I generally give advice with the assumption that the player is playing reasonably within the game's intended parameters. For example:
* Leaving the Monastery at level 5 or maybe 6 (even though I've been leaving at 3 lately to make things easier)
* Going to Arnika early on
* Rapax areas and Bayjin/Sea Caves done in the teens (*maybe* early 20s)
* Game finished at level 24 or so

As for fear/blindness, if the choice is getting there with less XP or not getting there at all, I would take the former. With that said, you generally only need this through Arnika, and maybe on Arnika-Trynton Road and lower Trynton. By the time you're doing Umpani or T'Rang quests, you've passed the initial hurdle and generally won't be needing fear effects to survive.
avatar
townltu: imagine a close combat only monster of AC99, 99% dmg resistance, immune to magic and regenerating few HP/turn,
I'd be more inclined to create a monster with 100% damage resistance but very low magic resistance, and if it's a fixed encounter I'd make it level 1 or 0, just to keep the player from using physical attacks on everything. Also, what if I somehow made it so that this enemy can't physically attack?
Post edited October 06, 2023 by dtgreene
Posted October 07, 2023
As said before, I have a hard-hat mentality. I am in my 20th year at the same company, doing blue-collar, construction work. They put us to work back in the day (the Baby Boomers). I'm now watching Gen-Z kids pouring in, they don't want to work, they live with mommy and daddy, they have no bills, they want to play with their Smartphones all day, and the company caters to them. Thank Phoonzang I have a pension, which these kids no longer get.
Which leads me to Wizardry 8. Apparently, I am one of the few hard-hats, who grind hard in the Monastery, so that the Arnika Road is easy (and the rest of the game, until Acsension Peak). These people don't want to work hard for it, they use exploits, they run from enemies, they take deaths, etc.
I want to be a real man, and slaughter all enemies on Arnika Road. If that makes me boring, so be it.
Posted November 01, 2023
Both the long-term and short-term are important. If a spell is going to make the now better without biting into late-game power too much, why not take it? For example, getting identify early is hella useful, even if it can—extremely often—be purchased in Arnika. Which also means one has to take in the full party, not just individual characters. Unless, of course, they are the same. Even paralysis can be a great pick for the right party—it often is a bad pick. I'd say the most important thing is to get the most useful spells quickly, and enough spells in diverse realms to build skills naturally. Of course, one could just grind realms, or even spend precious skill points on them. That's—naturally—a matter of play-style. Also, a complete spell list isn't important, just like how low piety is a viable choice. Thus, I never pick holy water, and only pick mind stab—on bishops—when I need to build psionics or mental early. Then again, I often throw all spell books on bishops first, which isn't optimal. I also save spell picks on levels between new levels of spells.

Some of the battle prolonging can be mitigated with speed hacks. Slow can actually be useful if one mods the game, but water realm psionic spell... And bishops have better options...

Hypnotic lure is on of the best spells in the game, and it's why monk is one of the easiest solos. (Bishop is probably the easiest solo.)

Shadow hound can get you close to certain monsters faster, which can be helpful. Like chameleon and light it builds realm and book skills fast, even if its use is highly situational.

Charm is great for grinding mental, and mindread can be useful for grinding psionics on a bishop. If you're into that. Better to get them from books, of course.

Blinding flash is a great choice for Alchemists, not so much for other alchemy casters.

Prismic Ray can be great on a gadgeteer, especially for parties with multiples.

Pandemonium powders can be a great get out of stupid free card. But that requires building up multiple skills.

Eye for an eye is great, what are you on about. Cast it on your highest level character.

(If you need the experience you "lost" you are playing the game suboptimally.)

Bishops don't need to be carried unless they are picking no spells. Either they are providing the long-term buffs—which is carrying the party—or they have multi-target damage like magic missiles, great for Arnika road, and a long time after. Also, on lower difficulties, crowd control with a bunch of melee focused characters means no problems. Bishops are already extremely powerful by level four, if not earlier. They only suck at level one, and that only—really—happens when playing on expert and not putting any points into realm skills. Easily the strongest and best class in the game, at least if you know what you're doing. But I like my party warrior-heavy, because I'm biased; I like a dicey Arnika road, it's the only fun to be had in the game until the peak. That also means no fighters or rogues, too much early damage allows for very sloppy gameplay. Also, building magic is more fun than building anything else in this too-long game, and it's far less fun on specialist casters, so... I also find locks & traps fun, so...
Posted November 01, 2023
avatar
ZyroMane: Some of the battle prolonging can be mitigated with speed hacks. Slow can actually be useful if one mods the game, but water realm psionic spell... And bishops have better options...
At that point, I'd argue that you're not playing the same game.
Posted November 01, 2023
avatar
dtgreene: At that point, I'd argue that you're not playing the same game.
Obviously true about any mod. Although, it's understandable that not everyone is neural diverse enough to appreciate the art of the never again used combat system inherent in Wiz8. Although, it could be worse: it could be Wizards & Warriors... or Arcanum. However, at least those two can be quick. On the other hand, at least Wiz8 has some nuance. Heh—imagine splitting hairs on terrible combat systems—ha! Not playing games like Battle Brothers suggest that I'm not a combat fan, but then I do this... Would a non–combat fan focus on such issues; would a combat fan play games with garbage combat like Neverwinter Nights? Hmm—I must internalize this further.


... Inventory Tetris. (º ﹃ º)
Posted November 03, 2023
I'm horribly on the spectrum: I was diagnosed with ADHD, I was in special education, I rode the little bus, I had problems getting my classwork done, etc. And this was early on in life, while I was still a child.
As an adult, after high school, and miserably flunking out of college, and getting a blue-collar job in a shipyard at 22, I finally figured out that I'm not like most people. I'm on the spectrum: Aspergers/Autism/NeuralDiverse. I refuse to accept change, I am a creature of habit, and I hate crowds. The Wizardry 8 battle system is something I thoroughly enjoy (there will never be another game like it).
That being said, I am creating a 2-Bishop party. I must be careful to pick spells that will benefit both the party and the Bishops themselves (having an attack spell in every realm). However, I must not be too liberal in spell picks, lest I have almost no level 6 and 7 spells available.
The way I am doing it is, to pick only the best level 6 and 7 spells from the first two spellbooks for each Bishop. After that, once the other two ignored spellbooks get good, to pick the best level 6 and 7 spells from them as well (ignoring Banish, as that is findable, and buyable).
Posted November 05, 2023
Expanding on the Bishop spell picks further:
Non-Bishops have only one spellbook to work on (36 or 37 spells). Hence, saving spell picks is a non-issue for them.
It's only with Bishops, that you have 101 spells to potentially learn. If you want to have a boring game, you can carry your Bishop(s) to Arnika, where they can get all 101 spells slowly.
However, I am running a 2-Bishop party, with bodyguards, picking spells as they come. This makes for a fun party, and guarantees that I will not get all 101 spells for the Bishops (that's fine, since a lot of spells are useless).
Of the level 1-5 spells, there are only 2 that you have to worry about. Level 1 Mind Stab (for which there is no spellbook, at least in vanilla W8, which will have to be picked at level up), and level 2 Holy Water (you can farm the Savant Orb for it, not too hard, but only once, and the second Bishop will have to pick it at level up).
Of the level 6 and 7 spells, Banish is the only spellbook that is both findable, and buyable (I guess the developers figured that spell is important). Thus, don't pick Banish at level up as a Bishop.

This leaves a deep dive into the remaining level 6 and 7 spells. Here is what is unnecessary for a Bishop to pick:
Blizzard: Causes blindness, robbing me of experience from enemies that ran away.
Draining Cloud: Enemies have infinite mana, so this doesn't help much. Also, instant damage is better than damage over time (DOT).
Firestorm: Again, DOT. Causes no status ailments.
Lifesteal: If the enemy has good Divine resistance, useless. Usually better just to heal.
Might to Magic: A niche spell, one of the rare ones that allows you to leech back mana. Neat, but non-essential, especially if you have Mana Stones/Magic Nectar.
Pandemonium: You don't want enemies running away from you, robbing you of experience.
Prismic Ray/Prismic Chaos: Unpredictable what will happen. You may wind up with blind/fear on enemies, causing them to run away, robbing you of experience.
Resurrection: I managed to make a no-death party last time. This time, if a party member dies, there is always Resurrection Powder, or reload.
Turncoat: I don't like to have summons/turncoats do my dirty work for me. I prefer to deal damage to enemies myself, granting the maximum skill increases to my party. Summons/turncoats also sometimes get in the way of ranged combat practice.

Cerebral Hemorrhage/Concussion: One and the same. They both do the same thing, heavy Mental realm damage to one target. Pick one.
Death Cloud: Damage over time. I prefer to kill my enemies outright, rather than wait for a spell to kick in.
Restoration: There are Restoration Potions available, negating the need for this spell.
Falling Stars: Earthquake is better. Skip it if Earthquake is available.

This leaves only a handful of essential spell picks for a Bishop:
Boiling Blood: The best Fire Magic spell for an Alchemist. Great single-target damage, explodes if killed with this spell, great against Rynjin.
Lightning: Great Fire damage, the best a Priest will get against crowds, thrown range only.
Quicksand: Mass kill-all Earth realm spell.

Asphyxiation: Mass kill-all Air realm spell.
Cerebral Hemorrhage/Concussion: Massive single-target Mental realm damage. Pick one, but not both, as they do much the same thing.
Death Wish: Attempts to kill all enemies in sight.
Earthquake: Massive damage to all enemies in sight (better than Falling Stars, which you should skip, if you have this spell available).
Mind Flay: Massive Mental realm damage to all enemies in sight.
Nuclear Blast: Massive Fire realm damage to all enemies in sight.
Tsunami: Massive Water damage to all enemies (limited by thrown range).

Summary: There are only a few level 6 and 7 spells that are essential.
For the kill-all spells, there are Quicksand, Asphyxiation, and Death Wish. For hit-all enemies, there are Earthquake, Mind Flay, and Nuclear Blast. So 6 picks for a Bishop, plus 2 if they want Tsunami, Boiling Blood, Lightning, and Cerebral Hemorrhage or Concussion (not both). Ten picks are essential.
Post edited November 05, 2023 by RChu1982
Posted November 05, 2023
avatar
RChu1982: Might to Magic: A niche spell, one of the rare ones that allows you to leech back mana. Neat, but non-essential, especially if you have Mana Stones/Magic Nectar.
If you need to do Divine damage to a single enemy (perhaps it's protected by Element Shield and has high mental resistance), then there isn't a better spell. (Banish does the same damage to multiple enemies, but lacks the side effect for when only one enemy needs to be hit, and only works on certain enemy types.)

avatar
RChu1982: Of the level 6 and 7 spells, Banish is the only spellbook that is both findable, and buyable (I guess the developers figured that spell is important).
Except that the instrument that casts the spell is import-only.

avatar
RChu1982: Resurrection: I managed to make a no-death party last time. This time, if a party member dies, there is always Resurrection Powder, or reload.
Resurrection Powders aren't cheap, plus they take up an inventory slot and it can be a pain to stock up on them.

The Amulet of Life uses up an accessory slot.

The Resurrection spell, on the other hand, doesn't have these issues and in fact is quite cheap. In fact, particularly on higher difficulties (where Quicksand is less useful and enemy instant death spells are more likely to succeed against the party), this spell is probably better than any other spell of its level to the point where, if it's offered as a choice, I would take it over any other spell (except *maybe* Restoration, but that situation isn't likely to come up, since such characters should already have Resurrection by that point).

(On Novice, Quicksand may be a better first pick than Restoration, but definitely not on Expert, and particularly not on Expert Iron Man where reloading isn't an option.)

It's worth having multiple characters with Resurrection because dead characters can't cast spells.

avatar
RChu1982: Death Cloud: Damage over time. I prefer to kill my enemies outright, rather than wait for a spell to kick in.
Killing them outright isn't always feasible. (Death spells work best on lower difficulties, but I've seen videos of the Ascension Peak Rapax Army fight on Expert where Death Cloud has taken out one of the bosses.)
Post edited November 05, 2023 by dtgreene
Posted November 05, 2023
avatar
RChu1982: Expanding on the Bishop spell picks further:
Non-Bishops have only one spellbook to work on (36 or 37 spells). Hence, saving spell picks is a non-issue for them.
It's only with Bishops, that you have 101 spells to potentially learn. If you want to have a boring game, you can carry your Bishop(s) to Arnika, where they can get all 101 spells slowly.
However, I am running a 2-Bishop party, with bodyguards, picking spells as they come. This makes for a fun party, and guarantees that I will not get all 101 spells for the Bishops (that's fine, since a lot of spells are useless).
Of the level 1-5 spells, there are only 2 that you have to worry about. Level 1 Mind Stab (for which there is no spellbook, at least in vanilla W8, which will have to be picked at level up), and level 2 Holy Water (you can farm the Savant Orb for it, not too hard, but only once, and the second Bishop will have to pick it at level up).
Of the level 6 and 7 spells, Banish is the only spellbook that is both findable, and buyable (I guess the developers figured that spell is important). Thus, don't pick Banish at level up as a Bishop.

This leaves a deep dive into the remaining level 6 and 7 spells. Here is what is unnecessary for a Bishop to pick:
Blizzard: Causes blindness, robbing me of experience from enemies that ran away.
Draining Cloud: Enemies have infinite mana, so this doesn't help much. Also, instant damage is better than damage over time (DOT).
Firestorm: Again, DOT. Causes no status ailments.
Lifesteal: If the enemy has good Divine resistance, useless. Usually better just to heal.
Might to Magic: A niche spell, one of the rare ones that allows you to leech back mana. Neat, but non-essential, especially if you have Mana Stones/Magic Nectar.
Pandemonium: You don't want enemies running away from you, robbing you of experience.
Prismic Ray/Prismic Chaos: Unpredictable what will happen. You may wind up with blind/fear on enemies, causing them to run away, robbing you of experience.
Resurrection: I managed to make a no-death party last time. This time, if a party member dies, there is always Resurrection Powder, or reload.
Turncoat: I don't like to have summons/turncoats do my dirty work for me. I prefer to deal damage to enemies myself, granting the maximum skill increases to my party. Summons/turncoats also sometimes get in the way of ranged combat practice.

Cerebral Hemorrhage/Concussion: One and the same. They both do the same thing, heavy Mental realm damage to one target. Pick one.
Death Cloud: Damage over time. I prefer to kill my enemies outright, rather than wait for a spell to kick in.
Restoration: There are Restoration Potions available, negating the need for this spell.
Falling Stars: Earthquake is better. Skip it if Earthquake is available.

This leaves only a handful of essential spell picks for a Bishop:
Boiling Blood: The best Fire Magic spell for an Alchemist. Great single-target damage, explodes if killed with this spell, great against Rynjin.
Lightning: Great Fire damage, the best a Priest will get against crowds, thrown range only.
Quicksand: Mass kill-all Earth realm spell.

Asphyxiation: Mass kill-all Air realm spell.
Cerebral Hemorrhage/Concussion: Massive single-target Mental realm damage. Pick one, but not both, as they do much the same thing.
Death Wish: Attempts to kill all enemies in sight.
Earthquake: Massive damage to all enemies in sight (better than Falling Stars, which you should skip, if you have this spell available).
Mind Flay: Massive Mental realm damage to all enemies in sight.
Nuclear Blast: Massive Fire realm damage to all enemies in sight.
Tsunami: Massive Water damage to all enemies (limited by thrown range).

Summary: There are only a few level 6 and 7 spells that are essential.
For the kill-all spells, there are Quicksand, Asphyxiation, and Death Wish. For hit-all enemies, there are Earthquake, Mind Flay, and Nuclear Blast. So 6 picks for a Bishop, plus 2 if they want Tsunami, Boiling Blood, Lightning, and Cerebral Hemorrhage or Concussion (not both). Ten picks are essential.
As I said, I would add Resurrection to the list of essential spells.

Also, you forgot about Restoration, which can be quite handy, especially in certain fights (like Bitter Wings, or anything with physical attacks that drain stamina or cause status ailments).

Also, Tsumami isn't "all enemies"; it only affects a cone. (Still useful for magic damage once you're in the 20s.)


avatar
RChu1982: Restoration: There are Restoration Potions available, negating the need for this spell.
Just noticed this.

I *highly* disagree:
* Restoration is a frequently useful enough spell that I'd rather not rely on consumables for this.
* Potions are self-only; hence, they can't be used to heal other characters. This is especially an issue if, say, your Valkyrie just cheated death and you want to get her back to the fight quickly; since she's unconscious, the use of a potion is not an option.
* (Incidentally, Restoration is also useful on just-revived characters, who have low HP and Stamina. If you're playing on phased combat, you'll want a fast Restoration caster (and, ideally, a slow Resurrection caster) for this situation.)
Post edited November 05, 2023 by dtgreene
Posted November 06, 2023
Firstly, full disclosure, I am playing on Novice difficulty (to offset the unfair disadvantage of constantly fighting against mobs). This makes status ailments against my party less likely, and allows me to selectively pick the best level 6 and 7 spells.
Secondly, I would subtract Lightning from my list of 10 essential level 6 and 7 spells, as it's obsoleted by Nuclear Blast.
Thirdly, I no longer have a Bard and Gadgeteer in my party, so the Fighter, Rogue, Valkyrie, and Ranger now have plenty of room in their personal inventory for consumables such as Heal Potions, Smelling Salts, Resurrection Powders, and Potions of Restoration.
This leaves me with 9 essential level 6 and 7 Bishop picks. Kill all: Asphyxiation, Quicksand, Death Wish. Hit all: Nuclear Blast, Earthquake, Mind Flay. Heavy damage: Tsunami, Boiling Blood, Cerebral Hemorrhage OR Concussion.
Posted November 06, 2023
avatar
RChu1982: Firstly, full disclosure, I am playing on Novice difficulty (to offset the unfair disadvantage of constantly fighting against mobs). This makes status ailments against my party less likely, and allows me to selectively pick the best level 6 and 7 spells.
Secondly, I would subtract Lightning from my list of 10 essential level 6 and 7 spells, as it's obsoleted by Nuclear Blast.
Thirdly, I no longer have a Bard and Gadgeteer in my party, so the Fighter, Rogue, Valkyrie, and Ranger now have plenty of room in their personal inventory for consumables such as Heal Potions, Smelling Salts, Resurrection Powders, and Potions of Restoration.
This leaves me with 9 essential level 6 and 7 Bishop picks. Kill all: Asphyxiation, Quicksand, Death Wish. Hit all: Nuclear Blast, Earthquake, Mind Flay. Heavy damage: Tsunami, Boiling Blood, Cerebral Hemorrhage OR Concussion.
Even if you're willing to go to the trouble of managing consumables, there's still plenty of reasons to take Restoration as a spell. (Not to mention Resurrection is still convenient, though on Novice I'd prioritize Quicksand.)

(Remmeber: Restoration potions are self-only, and therefore can't be used to cure conditions that would prevent action.)
Pages:
1
2
This is my favourite topic
Community
Wizardry seriesW8 vote for the most useless spell picks(29 posts)(29 posts)
(29 posts)