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OK. I will put Restoration on the essential spells list for Bishops. But not Resurrection. Anybody with a Resurrection Powder in their personal inventory can use it on a dead character, and it's not like Alchemy doesn't exist, to make infinite money, to buy all those expensive spellbooks, and Resurrection Powders. Also, if somebody dies (extremely unlikely, given my party setup), it's possible to reload.
Edit: I didn't even bring up my hybrids, the Valkyrie and Ranger. Probably a long time from now, the Valkyrie will learn Restoration, and both her and the Ranger will learn Resurrection. So I can leave utility spells to the hybrids, who have the luxury of choice (or rather, a lack of options), and leave only the most devastating spells to the Bishops.
Post edited November 07, 2023 by RChu1982
Restoration is a no-brainer on a priest, lord, or valkyrie. On a bishop, well that depends on the party mainly. It only really makes sense in an MDP if the only divinity caster is a bishop, or if the party is mostly bishops. In a PDP, either way, it makes a lot more sense, especially on a bishop without power-cast.

Even on expert, throwing out multi-target insta-kill spells is worth it for a melee party. Why not make an attempt to thin the herd, attacks are lost on moving after all.
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ZyroMane: It only really makes sense in an MDP if the only divinity caster is a bishop, or if the party is mostly bishops.
I disagree, as it can be useful if the other divinity caster happens to be unconscious. (Remember that an unconscious character can't cast spells or use items.)

Plus, at level 18 and Normal/Expert difficulty, it's probably a better choice than any of the other options. The nukes need a decent power level (PL3 only works 86% of the time at this level at best, and lower power levels aren't generally worth it), instant death isn't that great except on Novice (and there's Quicksand until the level 7 spells become feasible), and the remaining spells really aren't that special.
If unconscious becomes a problem for an MDP, you've most likely already failed. And, does your bishop even have the required divinity, which is ninety? Not all bishops will. But if it's the only one at ninety, then falling stars is only useful if never going to get alchemy that high. And getting level six damage spells in as many realms as possible can easily become a concern, and single-target damage is extremely important on expert. If not, why did you even bring a bishop in a damn MDP? Isn't that the appeal, to be able to target the foe's weakest resistance? Sure, restoration isn't useless, but MDPs kill so fast it's never necessary, unless you're bad at the game, of course. But, going for six bishops and not trying to get all the spells between them is just unnecessary optimization. And going for six bishops and not building an MDP is prestigious. If I play again after my current party, it's definitely going to be a gimmick party.
Restoration really is a no-brainer on characters without many options, such as a Priest, Lord, or Valkyrie. However, Bishops have to be more selective about their level 6 and 7 spell picks.
I used to do melee parties back in the day (before we were smarter, with all this internet help, we're old now). What a pain in the @$$ it was, running back and forth to kill enemies in melee, while being pelted with magic and ranged attacks. Thank Phoonzang that we're smarter now.

I stand again with my assessment for Bishops:

3 kill-all spells: Quicksand, Asphyxiation, Death Wish

3 hit-all enemies: Nuclear Blast, Earthquake (better than Falling Stars), Mind Flay

3 high-damage spells: Boiling Blood, Tsunami, Cerebral Hemorrhage OR Concussion (not both, as they are the same).
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ZyroMane: And, does your bishop even have the required divinity, which is ninety? Not all bishops will.
It's more like 81 or 82, as in practice the Divine Magic skill is going to rise quickly for any bishop, particularly with all the spells sold in Arnika.

And I consider it worth taking the time to raise Divinity that high to get access to Restoration. (Especially since auto-recasting Heal All casts it at PL1 repeatedly, allowing the skill to rise rather quickly.)


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RChu1982: Restoration really is a no-brainer on characters without many options, such as a Priest, Lord, or Valkyrie. However, Bishops have to be more selective about their level 6 and 7 spell picks.
Thing is, I can't think of any other 7th level spell I'd take over Restoration, if Restoration is an option. At level 18, the other spells aren't that good, and if you're high enough level for the other spells to be useful you already have some other spells and therefore Restoration is a better choice than some redundancy.
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ZyroMane: If unconscious becomes a problem for an MDP, you've most likely already failed.
Except that you might run into some high HP enemies that can cast Toxic Cloud. (The Djinni of the Clouds come to mind.)

Also, if the battle has been going on for a while (and therefore haven't been able to save), or if you're playing Ironman, salvaging a bad situation becomes an important strategy. Much better than losing significant progress.

Oh, and don't forget situations like Bitter Wings; if you've been poisoned by one, you're likely low on health, and one Restoration takes care of both problems. (An Element Shield will make it hard for you to be poisioned, but what if you get poisoned before you have a chance to put one up?)
Post edited November 13, 2023 by dtgreene
There has to be a balance with grinding: An all-Human party can get 4 stats maxed, and 4 expert skills unlocked by level 30 or 31 (*glaring at Valkyrie and Bishop*). Then, they can max all important skills by level 35 or so, and dominate the game. I know, too much for most.
But hey, I have no life. I grew up with the fun of W8.
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RChu1982: An all-Human party
is lacking racial diversity. (Sorry, I had to say it.)

From a gameplay standpoint, I prefer to have a party that's more diverse in terms of race because it leads to a bit more gameplay variety, not to mention getting key expert skills sooner.

This is espeically true for certain races, like dwarves with damage resistance, dracons with their breath weapon, and of course fairies with their unique equipment (much of which, sadly, is far rarer than it ought to be).
I used to do that, having multiple races, to get expert skills sooner, have a variety, etc.
But as I get older (I'm in my 40s now), I'm much more of a machine. I want the best of everything *overall*. In the long run, the Humans will serve me best, with enough grinding.
This is like 20 year old me vs 40 year old me: When I was 20ish, everything was exciting: Strip clubs, bars, nightclubs, etc. 40 year old me couldn't care less about anything: Work, W8, beer, sleep. It's sad, but that's life.
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RChu1982: I used to do that, having multiple races, to get expert skills sooner, have a variety, etc.
But as I get older (I'm in my 40s now), I'm much more of a machine. I want the best of everything *overall*. In the long run, the Humans will serve me best, with enough grinding.
This is like 20 year old me vs 40 year old me: When I was 20ish, everything was exciting: Strip clubs, bars, nightclubs, etc. 40 year old me couldn't care less about anything: Work, W8, beer, sleep. It's sad, but that's life.
I'm sort-of the reverse. I used to be all going for the long run, but in more recent years, I've come to prefer taking trade-offs to make the game more fun/easy in the short term, even if it leads to less power in the long run (which I'm not guaranteed to reach).
It's just that, I want to be all-powerful. If you reach level 35-40, you can dominate 95% of the game before Ascension Peak. No matter what level you are on AP, enemies will match your level, so you can never truly dominate there.
What do you do with your lower level parties? Just accept level 20ish monsters on AP with your level 20 party?
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RChu1982: What do you do with your lower level parties? Just accept level 20ish monsters on AP with your level 20 party?
Still a good challenge. Plus, my characters still have reasonable room to grow before things get too dull.

(Assuming I am actually there; I haven't actually played the game to its full completion.)
The Bishops have a lot of skills to work on. In particular, Close/Ranged Combat, Artifacts, Communication, Staff and Wand/Mace and Flail, Throwing and Sling, Shield, 4 spellbook skills (Wizardry, Divinity, Alchemy, Psionics), and 6 realm skills (Fire, Water, Air, Earth, Mental, and Divine). There always seems to be something for the Bishop to do.
I have 100%ed this game (not counting the Mindblast Rod room in Lower Marten's Bluff), as there are neutral T'Rang guards there that will turn hostile if you get too close to them. I hear that it's ok, but the Staff of Doom is overall better (it's only usable with someone with the Psionics spellbook: Bishop, Psionic, Monk), and it's a Polearm, which the Bishop and Psionic don't even have a weapon skill for, and I assume the Monk would rather fist-fight than get such a hard to get weapon.
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RChu1982: The Bishops have a lot of skills to work on. In particular, Close/Ranged Combat, Artifacts, Communication, Staff and Wand/Mace and Flail, Throwing and Sling, Shield, 4 spellbook skills (Wizardry, Divinity, Alchemy, Psionics), and 6 realm skills (Fire, Water, Air, Earth, Mental, and Divine). There always seems to be something for the Bishop to do.
I have 100%ed this game (not counting the Mindblast Rod room in Lower Marten's Bluff), as there are neutral T'Rang guards there that will turn hostile if you get too close to them. I hear that it's ok, but the Staff of Doom is overall better (it's only usable with someone with the Psionics spellbook: Bishop, Psionic, Monk), and it's a Polearm, which the Bishop and Psionic don't even have a weapon skill for, and I assume the Monk would rather fist-fight than get such a hard to get weapon.
The Mindblast Rod is mainly for use as an item, not as a weapon. Consider that the spell it casts:
* Is more likely to work (PL3 as opposed to PL5)
* Is more likely to affect the targets
* Hits all visible enemies
* And the damage is quite nice before you get to the point where you could just cast the spell
* Also, note that it has something like 19 charges, and it isn't cursed

Mindblast Rod is good for the spell it casts, not for its effectiveness as a weapon.