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RChu1982: I'm not really a fan of using consumables for offensive purposes,
I'm generally not in this game, but mainly due to the fact that they're a bit rare and also expensive for what they are. On the other hand, anything that could give me an edge on Arnika Road (like stink bombs, which can cause nausea or unconsciousness in addition to damage) is definitely appreciated.

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RChu1982: The Death Cloud on the SOD is unnecessary, when I have an Alchemist who just picked that spell at level 19. I don't think the "cloud" spells stack.
At level 19, it may be unnecessary and pointless; at level 9, not so much. (It still isn't *necessary*, but it's certainly useful to be able to cast a 7th level spell so early in the game.)

Then again, I'm thinking that around level 14 may be when you're expected to explore the Mountain Wilderness, given the Succubus Song instrument found there. (Then again, that line of reasoning puts this after Bayjin (Heal All book + VapoRizer), and Bayjin is probably the more dangerous area. Also, the Marten's Bluff area gives you a gadget that requires level 14, which is significantly higher than the level you'd typically be there, but then again, there's items with required levels 3, 5, and 11 that you can get in the area as well.)

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RChu1982: Just by playing the game normally, and grabbing whatever items you find on the ground, and opening every chest you see, you should have enough Artifacts skill for most of your characters.
Does this include reaching 35 by the time you reach Crock (and can buy Amulets of Life)? In my experience, it generally isn't by the time I reach him.

(Remember that almost all players aren't going to level up in Arnika into the double digits the way you've done.)
Post edited September 04, 2021 by dtgreene
Ok, so we're clear: Dexterity doesn't help with both swings per attack and attacks per round, but it does help with one. This still benefits the Bard and Gadgeteer, who are built for melee combat in this MDP. Speed, on the other hand, we both agree: It gives both extra swings per attack, and extra attacks per round. I would say, why not have both? The more swings per attack, and the more attacks per round, the more chances that you have to increase your skills.
It would be foolish to make a Bard/Gadgeteer with maxed Strength/Vitality/Piety, because Stamina is like SPs, you need other attributes and skills to use it effectively.
I've leveled up into the double digits in Arnika because it's the best way to prevent a party wipe. Not only do I build the necessary skills to proceed, but I get extra spells and level ups(Geomancers on the AT Road come to mind?)
I've been doing some theory crafting of different builds, and have come up with one that I'll post in the topic about multi-classing. (Short version: Human Fighter, change to Bishop at 2, change back to Fighter at 13.)
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dtgreene: I've been doing some theory crafting of different builds, and have come up with one that I'll post in the topic about multi-classing. (Short version: Human Fighter, change to Bishop at 2, change back to Fighter at 13.)
I like optional builds like this, but I still favor builds that are true to their original character. I will keep an open mind, however, on your build, since you seem to put a lot of thought into it.
Thinking about, in the sloty that previously would have my Samurai or Alchemist, putting in a Fairy Mage->Bishop, which can help with covering spells. This looks like a setup that will work decently early game (better initiative than the Elf, I believe), great mid-game (Power Cast at level 7, assuming I don't instead decide to go with earlier Snake Speed), and good (though not optimal) late game.

With this setup, the Faerie would cover Wizardry and Divinity (the 1 level penalty isn't a big deal here), while the Elf Bishop would cover Divinity (some of those spells are good to have on multiple characters), Alchemy, and Psionics. I think it would be interesting to try this, giving be a good class change build.

Now, I just need some good negative bonus point builds. I believe I've used Dwarf Gadgeteer (high STR/PIE/VIT helps with Stamina early), and Mook Valkyrie can take Bishop levels without having to meet extra stat requirements (but Power Strike comes a bit late), but do you have any other ideas? (I want the build to work well, and the requirement is that the character must start off with negative bonus points.)
I have heard that the Dwarf Monk also starts off with negative attribute points, but they have great damage resistance, as both class and race help with that.
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RChu1982: I have heard that the Dwarf Monk also starts off with negative attribute points, but they have great damage resistance, as both class and race help with that.
Problem is that Monks have Stealth, which means that the character is less likely to be the target of enemy attacks, and you *want* your damage resistant character to be the one being targeted.

(I ran into a similar issue in Elminage Gothic, where Ninjas have good AC, but also sometimes auto-hide at the start of battle, causing them to not be targeted.)
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RChu1982: I have heard that the Dwarf Monk also starts off with negative attribute points, but they have great damage resistance, as both class and race help with that.
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dtgreene: Problem is that Monks have Stealth, which means that the character is less likely to be the target of enemy attacks, and you *want* your damage resistant character to be the one being targeted.

(I ran into a similar issue in Elminage Gothic, where Ninjas have good AC, but also sometimes auto-hide at the start of battle, causing them to not be targeted.)
The Rogue does this too. This redirects attacks to more vulnerable characters, which is especially annoying when they hit fragile casters, some can't even equip gloves(Mage/Psionic).
Still haven't started, but my current party is looking something like this:
(?RACE = haven't chosen a race yet)

* Dracon(?) Valkyrie, probably STR/SPD
* Mook Ranger, probably STR/SEN
* ?RACE Bard, probably STR/SPD (or would STR/VIT be better?)
* ?RACE Gadgeteer, probably STR/SPD (or should I do STR/SEN) (Thinking of not doing the character replace thing at the moment)
* Elf Bishop, INT/SPD, will focus on non-Wizardry spells
* Faerie Mage, change to Bishop at level 2, INT/SPD, going for level 7 Power Cast, will focus on Wizardry/Divinity

So, how does this party setup look like? Any advice regarding stats or ?RACE ?

(Yes, ?RACE looks a bit like unidentified items in earlier Wizardry games.)
Generally Sen is better for range or crit based characters and Gadgeteer gets up to 2 + 20 str amulets so unless you go something like a Lizard melee based character (actually works well) I'd stay with Sen for the eagle eyes

is the Elf going to use a bow?

a speed Dragon will cost at the start because they don't really have good speed... I always give them a bit myself, so be a slow character to build up but should be very tuff... axe is possible with the speed but I wouldn't do it if you want polearms because they are slow weapons
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ussnorway: is the Elf going to use a bow?
Bishops can't equip bows, so that doesn't come into play. Besides, the Bishop should be too busy casting, especially if I give her a couple rings of power after modding the game to make them buyable.

(With that said, a Bishop with enough STR can actually equip the strongest buyable melee weapon, The Mauler, though I tend not to do that. (I have given it to Priests before, however.)
they can use the Elven Bow if you import a w7 save ;)
as a pure casting bishop with the odd melee Elf is as good as any other then
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ussnorway: they can use the Elven Bow if you import a w7 save ;)
as a pure casting bishop with the odd melee Elf is as good as any other then
According to Flamestryke's site, Monk, Priest, Bishop, Psionic, Mage, and Alchemist are unable to equip the Elven Bow.
you are correct... I'm getting old sorry
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My Human Bard and Gadgeteer kick @$$. Their stats are distributed evenly, so if you're having doubts, go with Humans, unless you have some special ideas in mind. I would give them Strength and Dexterity, especially if they're going to be on the front lines. Speed and Senses can wait, as they're not primary casters.
I gave my Mook Ranger Senses and Speed, then Dexterity and Strength, as I don't think Powerstrike helps a Ranger that much, they're best at ranged combat, and ranged crits. Besides, Strength only helps ranged weapon damage 50% as well it it helps melee weapon damage.
I wouldn't give the Mauler to the Bishop, as you said, they have a lot of skills to work on, and will probably be too busy casting most of the time. Using the Mauler requires you to melee an enemy, and Bishops have so many stats to work on, that I find it hard to put points in Strength or Dexterity(melee stats if you ask me).