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Dear Friends

When you steal a game, there is a chance that it's not as much important to finish, because there is another title, which is more prioritized.

When you buy a game as bmt22033 and need to make choices, which game you really want to buy, you will finish it, because you paid for it and it would be silly not complete it.

It taste better, if I earn and buy game, then download from Torrent or other place.
Everything on the world you must pay, there are days that you even do not be beaten by street hooligans, when you will not pay. You always need to lost a watch :)

PC games are cheaper then PS3 games. I have got PS3 and I had lots of games, but for the reason of spending 200 PLN, where for PC the same game costs 80-100 PLN is a big difference. I have sold my PS3, even if there is a possibility to use pirated games.

Really there is nowhere written that you must play all the games on the market.

Sincerely
Post edited May 20, 2011 by VAMET
About the piracy .
Following Russell Carroll's controversial Gamasutra opinion piece on PC casual gaming and piracy, the Reflexive Entertainment marketing director adds lots more hard statistics in this follow-up column.

Conclusion

The 1000:1 ratio is really, I think, the key takeaway of the article. Several people have grasped that and started applying it to different numbers in the industry, and the results are very disappointing.
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=17408

1000 copies pirates eliminated for sell 1 original more . Or put another way, 1 million downloads would give no more than 1,000 sales if they could avoid - with the expenses associated with DRM, probably much higher than the benefit gained sales and the inconvenience it is for customers. They say that DRM Assesin,s Creed 2 cost several million dollars ...

This is to me the most creible study about the piracy in casual games , made by directly by the marketing director of a games developer . Realy there is not many credible studies about the piracy in the industry , many times only propaganda of the PR to stimulated the sales with a victimism posture . And many excuses , the piracy is perfect to excuse the fails of the industry .

It's fun to see that the first leaked version of the game was the Russian version. The hysterics of the coalition of good manners and agains the piracy do not know any real video game piracy and its effect on the PC market. Only repeat slogans hysterical, making us believe that the cause of the decline of AAA games in the West was piracy - not Intel or Microsoft and the Xbox . Intel , the consoles and Microsoft ? NEEEEEEVER ;)

The Witcher sold 500,000 copies in Russia,

http://www.kaermorhen.ru/modules.php?name=Articles&pa=showarticle&artid=377

One third of the total, in a country with several times less computers in homes than US , or less than some large European countries like UK or Germany.

Source , a PDF of 1C publisher , which have about the half of the market . 11 millons PC in houses in 2006 . They talk about 15 millons games only 1C in 11 millons PC . The great mayority in PC , about 90 % of more . .

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/jonelo/capturas%202/57547457457gy988-1.jpg

Another great sellers are STALKER SHOC 1 millon at least , but not only russian or east europe games, also games like Lead 4 is Dead - 400.000 copies - Postal 2 - 1 millon - .. We can imagine this ratio in USA or West Europe with many times more PC and is ...incredible .

In USA TW only sold 150,000 copies. Source , Tomas Gop in Egde magazine

http://www.next-gen.biz/features/the-witcher-2-assassins-of-kings-interview
The Witcher had a broad pan-European appeal – where was it most popular?
I think we sold most copies in Russia, from what I know. Germany and Poland were similar. Bur obviously Poland and Russia had an advantage – everyone loves Sapkowski. They know the writer that wrote the books we based the game on. It was easy for us there. Actually, selling the game in Germany, France, the US as well – it did around 150,000 in the US – was harder because we actually had to make a cool game to sell it out there, people didn't care about Sapkowski. Germany and Poland were easy as well because it's a PC market, and if it's a good PC game, you're going to be OK.
In Russia you can read developers and PR in forums of normal videogames webs , where there trakers and where "pirates" - the moderators or even administrators - put pirate links to the games, even themselves Ukrainians and Russians games , like STALKER . I read since many years a forum with the developers of Metro 2033 , in a forum of this style . Boys like PROF , Andrew Prokorov , the most famous developer and designer of STALKER and Metro 2033 . Realy was the official forum of the game in Rusia .

This is in a normal web about videogames , with lot of interviews with publishers and developers . Even with the publisher of TW2 in Russia . And yes , you can see pirates links in the forum with pirates versions of TW2 , craks . This is real , is one of my favorites webs with good information about many games of the East Europe , not specially by the piracy , is a residual thing in the forum .

I'm not going to put links here to prove it, for two reasons

- would be contrary to forum rules

- I do not want to damage the image of my Russian friends, you know, in the West nobody would understand this and have more bait even to demonize the Russians and piracy.

Piracy in Russia - and Poland - is not only piracy online, but mainly the sale of counterfeit pirate. That is, even here real money is lost that people are willing to pay for a game and not a hypothetical purchase intention. You can find these fakes even in large shopping centers of some big cities. .. What do think of all this the developers and the owners of the games studies ? .

Sergei Grigorovich, owner of GSC , talking about the sale of counterfeit pirate of STALKER games .

http://focus.ua/society/114970
The same applies to piracy. On the one hand piracy - it's stealing, on the other - piracy promotes the product. A person who is unable to purchase the product license for the price, still buy it at a cheaper price and piracy becomes a client of the future. For example, he buys the continuation of the game or related products.
This is Sergei Grigorovich in her humble home.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/jonelo/capturas%203/5ffe90.jpg

He already made ​​millions with his first game, Cossaks ;)

My cuestion is... How is posible this ? How is posible the record of sells of videogames per PC in a country with bigger piracy ?

The answer is in the first link of this post and the quote of Sergei Grigorovich .

Sorry for my english . I am very bored waiting for patch 1.1 XD
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5ffe90.jpg (34 Kb)
Post edited May 21, 2011 by Oritxupolite
The huge difference is in europe/asia physical piracy is big. over here in the west, no one does it, it's all software piracy.
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Kaldurenik: Piracy is not stealing. Please look up the laws about it.

Anyway did we need another topic about this?
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Buckethead: Taking something that doesn't belong to you is stealing. What would you call piracy then? Borrowing? Bloody idiot
Piracy is when you board some ones ship at sea and kill the whole crew and clean house that is piracy. I have never seen a pirate in real life but they do exist out at sea still these days.
I wont comment on piracy, but would ask one question regrarding patches.

Now I have the GoG download version that I purchased supposidy DRM free.

I gather if any patches come out we have to activate over the web to get them. Now if the patches were hosted by someone on the web as standalone (dont even know if this is possible) would it be piracy for legit owners to get them as standalone patches?

Now we do not even know at this stage since none have come out. But a lot of people have had problems registering and may not be able to get them even if they have paid for the game. Or if we do have to register to get patches would that not break the promise of DRM free so morally would it be wrong to download patches?

Just putting up another point of view.

Regards MarkL
at my age ihave seen companys killed by piracy.

companys had the high moral ground until the wave of blatent thievery started,by thievery i mean games like mafia 2 and arcania g4 etc,sub standard dross released at full price and the customer blatently lied to about content and quality.

then theres the whole DLC controversy,ripping content from a complete game and selling it off as "extra".

so as it stands i dont condone piracy,but i do understand it,the moral high ground is being lost,through treating paying customers like morons.

demos alone can stop a lot of piracy,but until companys start seeing us as customers and not cash cows it will go on.

CD Projekt still has love for the gamer,which sadly today is rare as rocking horse shyte.
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ArnoldJ.Rimmer: demos alone can stop a lot of piracy,but until companys start seeing us as customers and not cash cows it will go on.
I remember I had a lengthy conversation on this very topic with a friend of mine! We got nostalgic and wrote a manifesto. That made us very hungry.

It was also our first night in Amsterdam, so there may ahve been other variables to why the topic seemed so important and implications so profound...
For me piracy is a grey area just like many choices in the Witcher. Piracy is morally wrong but I don't consider it stealing and I believe usually it is a victimless crime. But there are many grey areas in the gaming industry in general. For example offering a product with no demo, no option of return would be considered very bad practice in most industries... illegal in some.

Most publishers are also utterly ruthless in finding new ways to squeeze more money out of gamers wallets; long gone are the days when you can just buy a complete game, now you have to preorder 4 special editons from different retailers and buy 5 DLC packs to get the full content. On the subject of DLC most are clearly way way overpriced and play on the psychological need for completion - yet another grey area. I consider all that immoral too personally, I'm a firm believer of make a good product and sell it wtihout all the ridiculous profiteering tricks that have made a mockery of what used to be a respectable business.

Finally the lack of respect the PC platform gets is another grey area, with cheap port after port very rarely does the PC version get some proper thought or development put into it. It's like buying a dvd player only to find vhs tapes are all you can get for it. If you want to watch you still have to buy the vhs but feel a bit sick when you'd much rather be buying dvds.

I've bought 2 copies of W2 to support CDPR.
Yeah!! I had my steam pre order cancelled & use the money to buy on gog!! Honest to god truth!! They get 100% of the profit now! I might but another copy also..
Post edited May 20, 2011 by weseepc
THE ADVENTURE OF GERALD OF PIRATE BAY:

1.AFTER GETTING INTO VIZEMA, the hero came out to the harbor to check out some chicks. To the surprised of our hero, the harbor whore demanded 200 orens for a virtual sex.

Damn you whore! I have to sleep on ragged rugs, and slay monsters and you demand me this outrageous price! Gerald yelled in dismay.

But EVERY OF US HAVE A PROOF CERTICATE OF NO STD, YOU MORON WITCHER! And WE CAN ACCEPT YOU REUSING YOUR CONDOMS 5 TIMES YOU CHEAP ASS WITCHER!

2. AFTER DOING CAMEO’S QUEST:

witcher, how can repay you ?

I demand 200 orens for my very very hard work, YOU DONT KNOW WHERE I ... SLEEP

OK here is your 200 orens. Just so you know, we could have given free night with our girl

So why didn’t you give me the option before?Gerald asked in disbelief.

YOU CHEAP ASS WITCHER ! IF YOU WANT EVERYTHING FOR FREE, WHY DON’T YOU GO TO COLLEGE AND LEARN PROGRAMMING AND MAKE A GAME FOR YOURSELF! CDPROJEKT PROGRAMMED ME THIS WAY

Damn, I am gonna reload this

3. AFTER RELOADING THE GAME:

The witcher came to merchant to buy flowers for whore so he can have free time. But the flowers cost $20 orens.

DAMM YOU , WITCHER 1 NOW COST ONLY $4.99 ON GOG.COM AND THIS BUNCH OF FLOWER COST ME 20 ORENS, YOU RIPPED OF MERCHANT.

I AM GONNA KICK YOUR VIRTUAL SHOP INTO ACTUAL DUST!

The screen went black!

4. BACK ON PIRATEBAY:

HELP! HELP! HELP! MY ADVENTURE CRASHES! HELP! HELP! HELP!!!
For everyone getting into the technicalities of stealing -- we're all from different countries with various interpretations of copyright infringement. There are international copyright laws, but each country handles infringement in different ways.

In the United States copyright infringement IS stealing. Using copyrighted material without paying for it in any medium is stealing and punishable under law. I don't know how publishers are fighting against piracy, but the DRM rhetoric about combating piracy is weak - DRM isn't about fighting pirates. It's about keeping paying customers from selling their copies that, in the United States, is a consumer right (I believe it's called the "first sale doctrine").

I personally am okay with people who download to use the game as a demo - if they don't like it then they delete it - if they do like it then they buy it.

It's interesting to see the analogies to cars with test driving. If we go to a dealership here looking for a car we test drive what we're looking at. The closest dealership to my house is ~25 minutes away and we can drive the car home if we feel like it.

To sum up what I think: piracy is wrong, but so is intrusive/limited activation DRM. Piracy deprives the developer from receiving monies on their copyrighted material; however, intrusive DRM is also stealing because it deprives consumers from reselling their copy of the product. It goes both ways - individuals can pirate and so can companies. It's all about whose rhetoric and money does the best persuading to the authorities who make the laws.

Keep in mind that I'm basing my knowledge off of what I know from the U.S. I don't know the international copyright laws.
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bmt22033: snip
I really enjoyed reading your comment. Especially since it lfinally came from someone from the software industry.
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bmt22033: When I was 10, we got a Commodore 64. That began my obsession with computer gaming. I probably had ~200 games and about 99% of them were "pirated". Why? Because it was easy to do and my parents, while occasionally buying a game for me, would certainly *not* have bought two hundred+ games. I was young and I didn't see it as doing anything wrong. I just knew that I wanted to play all these games and programs like Fast Hack'em made that possible (and really easy to do).

As I grew up, I eventually came to realize that the people making these cool games weren't just doing it for fun but in many cases, it was their livelihood. But even though I had started to get the feeling that what I was doing was wrong, I still justified it based on the fact that I was just a kid and I didn't have any money to buy these games anyway. And since I didn't have the money, it wasn't like the people who were selling these games were actually losing out on anything.

By the time I was in high school, I had a part time job and I'd buy the occasional game but I also still pirated games, too. By this time, computer gaming had become a lot bigger than it used to be. There were lots of games out now that I wanted to play but I certainly couldn't afford to buy all of them. My parents made me pay for my car insurance (not cheap, of course) and naturally, a teenage boy needs money to spend on girls! I still wanted to "try out" all the new games and a lot of my friends were into gaming, so I had access to the games. Why should I deny myself what I want to do just because I don't have enough money? Life is tough!

Then I went to college. I'd always had an interest in computers since that Commodore 64 (and the Atari 2600 and Intellivision before that). What could be a better career than computer programming? So I started working on my computer science degree. Between classes, girls, friends, and a part time job, was still my desire to play all the *amazing* computer games that were being released. The Internet was still in it's infancy at that time but BITNET provided access to that Wolfenstein 3D demo and, a few days later, the full pirated version of the game! At some point, I "needed" a copy of Microsoft Office. Do you know how much that costs?!?!? OMG!!! I don't have that kind of money. Wait, now I need this Visual Studio thing for a programming class? Holy crap! I thought Office was expensive! Fortunately, I "knew some people who knew some people" and presto! A copy (literally) of Office and Visual Studio. Yeah, I knew it was "wrong" to have an unlicensed (pirated) copy of that software but I *needed* it. And Microsoft shouldn't charge so much for their software!

I finally finished that degree and I was very fortunate to get a good paying job as a software engineer at a major commercial software developer/publisher. For the first time in my life, I was finally earning a good salary. I worked a lot more hours than I thought I would, especially around crunch time. When the first product I worked on was shipped and became available in retail stores, I was pretty proud of that because it represented a lot of hard work on the part of a lot of people. By now, the Internet was really exploding and with it, the availability of pirated software. Usenet was laden with pirated software (and porn). To no surprise, the software that I'd put so much time into was also out there freely available for anyone to download. I knew it would be but seeing it was frustrating. Knowing that I (and a lot of other people) had put so much hard work into this product that sold for ~ $50 but could now be stolen and used by anyone for free really changed my perspective on software piracy. If people could take that product and use it without paying for it, then my employer wouldn't be earning money from sales and I (or someone else) might end up losing a job because of it.

I can honestly say that since that time, I haven't pirated software. Period. I've read so many justifications that people offer up for why they do it, why it's ok to do it and why it's not the same as stealing. For the most part, I think it boils down to people not being willing to deny themselves of something that they want when they're presented with the opportunity to get it for free. And if you read this whole thing, you know that that's something I could relate to for a large part of my life.

Today, my primary hobby is still computer gaming and I buy quite a few games. I have a couple of games that are six months old sitting on my bookshelf that I have yet to even open. Do I buy every game I want? No. I can't afford it. So I have to make choices about what I want the most. I'm sure that all of those games that I'd like to play but don't own are available right now through Torrent, Usenet, FTP, etc. But I feel like if I'm going to play a game, I should be paying the people who made it because that's how they earn their living.
The only reason you stopped pirating games is because you could afford to buy them.

I pay for my games as well. I can afford 1 game per month when I have no work but when I do my seasonal work I can afford as many games as I want. publishers charge $90+ for pc games here retail and almost the same price on steam. Back when you pirated MS office you didn't hurt Microsoft as you couldn't afford it so they wouldn't be getting the money from you. Yes it is still wrong but it hurts no one.
Post edited May 21, 2011 by mojoman69