What about the rubber ducky puzzle? For me it was very frustrating and funny at the same time.

Logical? Hardly, at times. That puzzle underwater, with the four stones and the sliding settings? Hardly logical. There's some puzzles in this game that just isn't logical at all, and requires completely random inventory combinations, or just fiddling with the positioning and settings on things until it just works.
Most puzzles are logical and works well. Others... Well, an online walkthrough bookmarked is a tool recommended for anyone doing this game for the first time, because while it may technically be cheating, it will be better than having your game experience ruined by a nigh unsolvable puzzle.

*** SPOILER ALERT ***
The only fringely logical puzzle in the game is the ducky puzzle. Everything else ranges from obvious to simple.
Besides the fact that a single stone has the symbols switched (or has it ? It had in the Polish version, that's for sure...), the puzzle is perfectly logical. It's similar to an IQ test, really. You use signs and symbols with little to no use of trivia. I'd even say that THIS is logic in its purest form.
Have you even played something like "Legend of Kyrandia: Book Two" or similar ? Try some, then complain about absurd trial-and-error puzzles.
Example: in TLJ you had a spellbook, ingredients and all you had to figure out was that a web is silky (sic !). In LoK2 you had bottles with colorful liquid which had different, sometimes lethal, effects, depending on how you mixed them (and you had no clues as to how you are supposed to).
Also - the water pressure puzzle was hardly guesswork. Each element had SOME description and even without it - you'd still be able to figure things out, treating every element like a "black box", which is activated by something and gives something in return (without getting into details about what goes on inside).
*** /SPOILERS ***
And what do you say to yourself after finishing the game ? Doesn't it sting you ego that you weren't smart enough to figure things out for yourself ? I know it hurts mine every single time :\...
Also - figuring things out is the mental equivalent of sex. Why would you want other people to do that for you ;) ?
Lastly - using a walkthrough can be like a drug. You do it once and then every time you can't charge further into the game you think to yourself "I already checked the solution to that on the web... Not that it would hurt to do it again".
The point is - you'll have a much better experience if you're not choosing the path of least resistance. It feels good to earn respect for yourself... from yourself.

I remember the rubber ducky puzzle... I didn't get stuck on it for a moment. :\ Provided we're thinking of the same one... I gather this is involving bread crumbs or something of that accord?
This is one of the few games that I did not, or barely used a walkthrough for. I believe I needed some help with slidy-turny puzzles, but aside from that I did it all on my own.
Granted, it's been a long long time since I played it but I distinctly remember thinking "Holy shit, that was awesome and... not so bad."

Good gods you're the single most insulting person I've read on these boards. Good going, that takes some doing.

Nope. I mean the "how to avoid electrocution" puzzle. In my defense - my version of the game had a bug with combining these particular items... Simply put: I could have used A+B->AB and them AB+C->ABC but I tried A+C->AC and there was no way to do AC+B->ABC.
Like I said - it's quite an easy and enjoyable game. Although I had to use the walkthrough at about three points (one being the ducky puzzle, where I facepalmed and had to reload the last save to combine the items in JUST the right order), the most embarrassing of which was when I simply missed an item. To add insult to the injury - it was quite big and in the middle of the screen. The only reason I didn't see it was because I played on my old CRT... which has definitely seen better days, because its screen was DARK as night ;P.
0_o
O...K. And you base that on a single post, where I stick to discussing TLJ puzzles, adventure games and joys of gaming in general ?
Make no mistake about it - I think you were wrong about some things, but at no point did I intend to insult you as a person.
Think about it - I read your post thoroughly, gave it a lot of thought and quoted most of it in my response. This alone indicates a certain degree of respect I have for you. That and the fact that I care about your opinion and am trying to convince you to think otherwise... or at least prove me wrong.
Really - quote the part of my post where I explicitly said something insulting about you... or anyone in particular, for that matter.

That's the only thing I could see being remotely misunderstood for an insult.
Although, in the context it was used it was not insulting at all.

Exactly - the context. I didn't want to make a huge conditional out of it, but I was trying to point out that there are times when we can't figure things out easily and might either try harder or admit intellectual defeat by using a walkthrough. The next sentence clearly showed that I know the feeling and hate it, because it's not really that much about actually being able to think of a solution as it is about lack of commitment that, in some cases, causes regret and hurts self-esteem. At this point, it's more or less clear that I wasn't rhetorical in asking that question - I simply wanted to know if people feel the same "guilt" when using a walkthrough even once...
But never mind the whole personal drama. How do YOU feel about using walkthroughs ?

I'm not too keen on using walkthroughs, but I have succumbed to using them way too often than I would like to.
I rarely use them unless I feel that I have tried everything I can think of, but if I spend more than 30 minutes to 1 hour without any progress I have a tendency to use one.
The problem then is, as you so well said, that it becomes like a drug.
You don't try as hard before you use it, just to get a little progress and then you use them whenever you hit the smallest snag.
*stands up*
"My name is Dan and I'm a walkthrough-holic..."
Now that that's out of the way, I still stand by my statement that I don't want to use them, but I also want to get to the next part of the game. :)
That's what makes it so easy to use a walkthrough.
It's a quick fix.
I never used a walkthrough as much as I did with the Tex Murphy games.
My reason is that I wanted to get to the next scene, as the game felt more like a movie.
And when I couldn't figure out what to do or who to talk next, to I got too frustrated and turned to the walkthrough.
I hope this post have somewhat cleansed my mind, so I will make more of an effort to solve the puzzles myself in the future, as that is what makes ones logic better, stimulates the mind and makes one smarter.

This. When playing games like this, I end up getting stuck 9 times out of 10. And when I get stuck for too long, I get pissed. I have no qualms about using walkthroughs; they let me enjoy the story, and get through the game. I almost always use walkthroughs and strategy guides for point-and-click adventure games, (like this one), and RPG's; it makes the game a lot more fun. On other games, I may never look at a walkthrough the first time through, but when I play it again, I want to get all the little "secrets" and various bonuses, so I then turn to a walkthrough. I'm not ashamed at all. So I cheat; I don't care. I just want to enjoy my games!
BTW, The Longest Journey is a great game. I got it with the Game of the Year Edition of Dreamfall; if you don't have it, get it now!

There are time I've reached this state simply because of playing a lot without taking brakes. Nowadays, when I get stumped, I usually think to myself "OK, this clearly shows that it's time to call it a day and try again tomorrow, with a clear mind". A good night's sleep helps in most cases...
Bah, I sometimes wonder if I'm not stuck because of a bug in the game that makes progress impossible. There's no way to be sure, unless I check a walkthrough, although I do feel that it's simply and excuse not to experiment more.
Then again - I was really shocked to find out that I indeed got stuck in TLJ and nothing short of reloading an earlier save could help me get through... Then again - the Polish version was definitely an earlier build than what we have, so that explains it a bit.
Amen to that. May we have strength to overcome any future temptations and finish games by our own cunning alone.
It's a bit... circular. You get mad, use a walkthrough, get further (rinse and repeat), then finish the game and when you start the next and at some point you'll inevitably get stumped again. It's harder to get more skilled when using walkthroughs extensively...
It's similar to quick-saving in action games. Now - as much as embarrassing this is to say - I used to save A LOT in these. And by "a lot" I mean literary every 15 seconds. Because of that - I used to die every 2 minutes but that wasn't really a problem, since I could always reload, right ?
Not really. I started enjoying these games only when I kicked the habit and stopped saving AT ALL. After a painful period of dying quite often, I've learned to dodge, use cover and kite enemies significantly better than I could have ever imagined before. And I've REALLY gotten a kick out of beating levels with no saves, even if it sometimes took me 20-50 tries to figure out the last part of such a level.
My point ? You have to take risks and endure some pain to learn, but it pays off a lot.
On the other hand... Sure - why not. Having fun at SOME point is what drives us all (I think). I mostly avoid walkthroughs because of considerable remorse and shame I feel afterwards but if it makes the game even more fun for you - that's great. I can't argue with that.
I'm simply curious if you'd feel more satisfied trying things our way... But then again - whatever floats your boat.
I'm a little OCD like that myself but that's also the reason why I want to find these things myself. After all - they aren't "secrets" any more if you read about them, are they ;) ?
And this is the point we all agree on. No matter how one wishes to play it - the game is excellent and the plot is engrossing...

I just finished this game and I have to say it's one of the easiest point-and-click adventures I've ever played, and by easy I mean the puzzles actually make sense and, as Vestin said, were logical. There was no pixel-hunting, no random amalgamation of items necessary and the fact that certain areas remained open or were not available until prerequisites were met prevented alot of back-tracking and blindly running around in circles.
**SPOILERS**
I remember being stuck once, and that was when I had to get the A/G unit from the crash and couldn't figure out how to get rid of the guard. I knew I had to do something with the Bingo cola can and I somehow had an inclination that I should shake it. I sat there for two minutes shaking the can with my mouse but nothing happened. It was only then that I gave in and checked a spoiler-free walkthrough. When I found out what I was supposed to do with the can I just wanted to kick myself.
Oddly enough, I'm a walkthrough-a-holic. If I'm stuck long enough to get frustrated I go straight to gamefaqs but, with this game, I forced myself to endure, even during the island telephone puzzle. I had downloaded and played 'Beneath a Steel Sky' and I used a walkthrough constantly, especially near the end. But that game was difficult, free and your character could die. In The Longest Journey, the puzzles made so much sense, I paid good money for it (worth every penny) and there was no risk of April biting the dust.
The rubber ducky challenge everyone was talking about, I don't know if it was just beginner's luck but I had no problems with it at all.

I suck at point-and-click adventure games, and that used to always happen to me when I got stuck (wanting to kick myself). I would get a mental block, get stuck, and get madder and madder, until I end up hurling my controller across the room. After I had purchased a new controller for my console, (to replace the one that I broke when I threw it), I would check the walkthrough, and get past the part I was stuck on, all the while berating myself that I hadn't thought to try that. I now just accept that I'm not that clever, and use a walkthrough from start to finish. The fun for me is exploring the environment, listening to the characters interacting, and watching the story unfold; and The Longest Journey has does all three superbly.
That being said, I'm mostly a console gamer, and I can get through most platformer/action-adventure games without help; its just the point-and-click/RPGs that trip me up.

That's... strangely attractive.
Also - use Nerf balls ^^".
First of all - I don't think you should give up. You said it yourself that you find exploring fun. As such - you gather A LOT of valuable information and shouldn't have any problem with the "explicit" quests (go to X and give Y to Z, etc). This leaves us with the abstract and less obvious ones, where I can only suggest that you at least give them a try before going for the walkthrough. You'll know that you can check it any time if it really starts to get to you, but at least you'll give yourself a chance with it...
After all - doesn't using walkthroughs feel... counter-immersive ?
Oh, c'mon - RPGs give you a lot of freedom, most of the time. Why not make your own choices there ?
**SPOILERS**
The most hilarious thing was trying to flirt with him... "Sorry ma'am, I'm GAY. Move along, now..." - I sounded like he was more annoyed than serious xP.
I solved that puzzle before being presented with it. In the docks I was like: "Oh, look ! A PAINT-SHAKER ! Wow, what can I do with this stuff ? Let's see... You put a can in it and it gets shaken ? Hey - I've got a can right here :> !". So - when the guy said he was thirsty, I simply doubted he'd be that much of an idiot to accept such a dangerous-looking can... Then again - he's cop ;P.
I think we should change the thread's topic to "Walthrough-a-holics anonymous" xD.
I have to admit - this is the perfect example of a "black box" puzzle - it doesn't matter that the *** goes on inside - you simply manage what comes in and what goes out...
I like to divide adventure games into Sierra-like (can die, can reach dead-end, can reach dead-end without knowing it, can go to location Y without the items needed from location X, can have arcade puzzles, can make wrong choices, can have time-limited sequences) and LucasArts-like. The first type requires both saving every 2 minutes and extensive walkthrough usage. The second is what all modern adventure games should be...
It still frustrates me that I would have done it, hadn't the game decided that I CAN'T attach the rope to the ducky-tool contraption ><".