To quote Starmaker, *SNAPE KILLS TRINITY WITH ROSEBUD*
I'm reasonably certain I've read the last of the Unbroken Circle of Zerthimon. If nothing else, Dak'kon has been granted some considerable physical bonuses, and his mind is at rest for the first time in who knows how long. I'm trying to suss out why.
Really, this isn't about game mechanics. I'm just curious.
I got it up to a point. A interpretation of the scripture of Vilquar's Eye opened up the possibility that Vilquar and the Illithid weren't the only ones who were snowed, bringing new and unpleasant possibilities to the scripture of Submerging the Will and the scripture of Balance In All Things. It raised the possibility that Zerthimon had been broken by the punishments of the Illithid and stopped the revolution before it could move on and slaughter them (and, really, everybody) across the Planes.
As I recall, this doubt divided Dak'kon's mind against itself, diminished his certainty and resulted in the loss of his city in Limbo. (For want of a nail, or in this case for want of a Circle or two.) Certainly we can see how that could be a problem in Limbo, and the importance of the Eighth Circle (Zerthimon's Focus) is all the greater there. Yet I don't quite understand the lesson in the context of Zerthimon.
Is the point that Zerthimon did not like the purpose of the People when they were devoted to war, and wanted to break the People so as to break the war; and so he made the Pronouncement of Two Skies so as to make the People not *know* themselves? Or am I missing how the Eighth Circle plays in?

Also, how do I delete that other, poorly formatted form of this question? It really needed the yellow dot. Whosoever solves this has done me a favor.

You can't. I think you can ask someone from the GOG staff to delete, if you really want.

*sighs* Good to know...

*spoilers*
To get the 7th and 8th Circles of Zerthimon, you must have an Intelligence of 16 and 18 respectively, and to get the full benefit of them you must have a Wisdom of 19.

I think it must be the 6th Circle which brings it together.
"I know that Zerthimon's devotion to the People was such that he was willing to protect them from themselves. He knew the *illithids* had come not to *know* themselves in their obsession with control and domination. So he chose to stop Gith before she carried the People to their deaths. There must be balance in all things, or else the self will not hold."
In Zerthimon's opinion, Gith would cause the People to no longer *know* themselves, and to become weak like the Illithids.
What's more, there's an implication in the 7th Circle that he may also be trying to make them a greater weapon, in the long run, and in the 8th Circle to become focused as a People.
He does not wish to see the People become weak in their obsession, to no longer *know* themselves; and in time their victory may be achieved even without relentless pursuit if only they are strong and patient.

That's impressive. Zerthimon's hatred of the Illithid is pretty intense for him to try to forge his entire People into a weapon to destroy them, and remarkably focused for him to do so in such a long, slow process.
Had he only the wisdom to know that Gith's path would split them in two. But perhaps her people will lose because they may come not to *know* themselves due to their overtly warlike stance. Zerthimon's path is no less that of a warrior, but very much that of a slower, more patient one.

Well, that's the way I see it. Just needed to reread the 6th Circle, I guess.

^ I didn't do most of the Circle of Zerthimon" quest when I played PS:T, but what you've described is consistent with all the lore I've seen on the Githyanki (of Gith), Githzerai (of Zerthimon) & their enslavement to the Illithids. Gith, while right in her hatred of the Illithids, chose a 'by any means neccessary' approach, which has lead the Githyanki astray in their Chaotic Evil societies.

EDIT: I actually have a MSWord document I downloaded a long time ago, long before PS:T was on GoG.com, about the Circle of Zerthimon. I'm quite sure it's about the dialogue & stories found in the game about it. I actually haven't read it yet, but I think I should. It's fascinating stuff. Githyanki & Githzerai are among the few man-sized creatures that can go at illthids without the aid of much magic.

EDIT #2 (SPOILER): I quickly read the 6th circle right now, and wow! Gith wanted reckless war, while Zerthimon wanted his people to have a life away from it now that they were free from the illithids.

by dividing his people, zerthimon is doing a necessary evil. he knows it is a bad thing but following gith in her crusade against illithids would be worse, making them no better that illithids.

So he divided his people to break their unity, because they had already in their obsession no chance to *know* themselves and keep their focus?

yes something like that.

by the way, lets not forget the fact that the unbroken circle of zerthimon is something written by the practical incarnation. it may be a complete bullcrap

^ They were becoming a vicious in a mob-mentaility in following Gith.

(SPOILER, tying in with Corax' post above)
When I made my first post in this thread, I was gonna write about it being manipulative crap by the Practical Incarnation to manipulate Dak'kon for his Zerth Blade, but upon reading the AD&D 2e Monstrous Manual on Githyanki & Githzerai, the lore in the Unbroken Circle of Zerthimon seems consistent with the lore on them.

The Practical Incarnation literally used the truth of the Githzerai people to manipulate Dak'kon, inspiring Dak'kon to swear servitude to him.

What a sick bastard.

SPOILERS

I'm confused; if the Unbroken Circle was made by the Practical Incarnation, then how is it that it has come to be held as sacred among the Githzerai, as evidenced by the actions of the sick Githzerai Dak'kon mercy-killed and the words of the other Zerth? Did that tampering with Githzerai culture happen long enough ago to make it a thing in the intervening time?

If I understand the question properly, not quite (though quite a bit of time may have passed)...this is how I understand how that worked:

Your practical incarnation forged it so he could manipulate Dakkon. He had lost his faith, and the practical incarnation wanted him and his sword. He forged the circle and gave it to Dakkon - in order to forge something and make it believable, you include elements of what is already known/believed. Remember a lie is much more convincing if it contains bits of what others already believe to be true...he took stories of the people and added to it, and made it into the artifact. How much was from their lore and how much the practical incarnation made up on his own is certainly open to speculation though - unless there is more to those conversations than I have found yet.

The thing is that we see the sickly githzerai touch the unbroken circle itself before she dies, and the other githzerai in the Lower Ward chastise Dak'kon for wearing it despite his heresy. This indicates that the githzerai people hold some respect not merely for the teachings in the circle, but that they also have familiarity with the unbroken circle itself. Either the Practical Incarnation gave the unbroken circle to Dak'kon a long time ago, which would leave enough time for it to become a thing recognized by the githzerai, or such circles are generally carried by the zerths but the one given to Dak'kon by the Practical Incarnation was different in it's contents/nature (i.e. possibly made out of fixed stone as opposed to chaos matter which would change the contents at will?).

It was always my interpretation that Dak'kon's Unbroken Circle was a "legitimate" one in terms of its contents, it had just been constructed by TPI because Dak'kon wouldn't have been functional without it. As a religious artifact the githzerai might not have just given him one if he'd asked, so building one was necessary. He did say that it cost him a fortune.

^^exactly, you said it way better than I did. Though I did wonder by the way Dakkon reacted to the contents once you get past the 6th circle if the TPI made some of it up...its like he wasn't familiar with it past that point.