It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
maderas: How does the multiplayer aspect of the game function at all with the DRM still included and no DRM server for it to validate with?

I was excited to see this on sale here since I lost my discs a couple years ago when moving, but I'm not going to buy it if I can't go online properly.
avatar
taltamir: The master server provided some limited but not necessarily needed portions of the online play.

People running a NWN server must use a hack (which was posted in bioware's official forums and is a sanctioned modification) which removes a server's dependency on the master server.

They then hand out an IP address which users use to connect to them (in lieu of providing the name they were listed as under the master server). Those servers ask your program what your CD key is and then show you which characters are associated with said key, there is no unique username and password (that functionality was provided by the master server and is no longer available or necessary).

Instead security of your account with each such server is done by keeping your own cdkey a secret. Naturally two people using the same key cannot play at the same time.

The actual process is:
1. Run NWN
2. Go to multiplier
3. Type in a random username and password.
4. Get an error message saying it could not find the master server.
5. Exit out of that error to a screen showing an empty list of servers.
6. Click direct connect and enter the IP of the server you want (will be remembered) and hit connect.
7. Server shows you the characters associated with the cdkey you are currently using (which is stored in a text file you can easily modify in the NWN directory)
Ummm.. yeah that.
Post edited February 02, 2013 by urknighterrant
avatar
urknighterrant: Actually you're completely wrong on that one.

You're confusing the master server, which was hacked and taken down about two years ago, with the Gamespy servers that recently discontinued support for NWN and NWN2.
While you are right about listing servers being provided by gamespy (as a component of the master server), you are wrong about that server having anything to do with DRM.

You logged in to the master server which provided USERNAME AND PASSWORD authentication to world-servers run by individuals. Without the master servers those had no way to authenticate users at first until someone posted in bioware forum a way to make them work without it.

The DRM servers are STILL WORKING and are used for the premium modules.

NWN base game had an offline cd-check for its DRM.
NWN premium modules (original release) had an online check at game load as its DRM with servers that still work.
NWN premium modules released by gog had the DRM stripped out (although not all modules are sold as such unfortunately)
NWN multiplayer had a master server that provided authentication. You couldn't log in at the same time using the same cdkey but that is more of an account protect then DRM considering how the actual servers (hosted by individual NWN owners) works.
Post edited February 02, 2013 by taltamir
avatar
urknighterrant: Actually you're completely wrong on that one.

You're confusing the master server, which was hacked and taken down about two years ago, with the Gamespy servers that recently discontinued support for NWN and NWN2.
avatar
taltamir: While you are right about listing servers being provided by gamespy (as a component of the master server), you are wrong about that server having anything to do with DRM.

You logged in to the master server which provided USERNAME AND PASSWORD authentication to world-servers run by individuals. Without the master servers those had no way to authenticate users at first until someone posted in bioware forum a way to make them work without it.

The DRM servers are STILL WORKING and are used for the premium modules.

NWN base game had an offline cd-check for its DRM.
NWN premium modules had an online check at game load as its DRM with servers that still work.
NWN multiplayer had a master server that provided authentication. You couldn't log in at the same time using the same cdkey but that is more of an account protect then DRM considering how the actual servers (hosted by individual NWN owners) works.
No Taltamir. They are not. You are wrong. Start a premium mod. It will try to authenticate, it will be unable to connect to the master server, the authentication will fail, and the game will then load normally.
avatar
urknighterrant: No Taltamir. They are not. You are wrong. Start a premium mod. It will try to authenticate, it will be unable to connect to the master server, the authentication will fail, and the game will then load normally.
it authenticats: http://youtu.be/E4mG5L2-9KI

As you can see in that video, Infinite Dungeons connects to the DRM server and authenticates successfully.
Kingmaker fails to authenticate because it the version that came with GOG and is locked to the GOG CDKey rather then looking online for authentication. I have also purchased it directly as well so it would authenticate if I installed the online authentication DRM version... or I could just use the GOG CDKey rather then my own unique key but by so doing I lose out on the ability to play on a custom server at the same time as another gog user, as well as lose access to all the premium modules I own which were not included with the gog version

The DRM server is a seperate entity from the master server.
To quote my own documentation of the issue on wikipedia:
On June 16, 2011, the NWN DRM authentication server was temporarily taken down as a reaction by Electronic Arts to the NWN store being hacked and customer data stolen. Premium modules which were purchased via BioWare's store could not be played during that time because they could not connect to the server to validate the purchase, though DRM-free modules were unaffected. The exact duration of the temporary outage has not been documented.
Post edited February 02, 2013 by taltamir
NO. It did not. Here... load one of these modules:

[url=http://content.bioware.com/neverwinternights/modules_premium/PiratesOfTheSwordCoast_Installer.exe ]http://content.bioware.com/neverwinternights/modules_premium/PiratesOfTheSwordCoast_Installer.exe [/url]
[url=http://files.bioware.com/neverwinternights/modules_premium/InfiniteDungeons_Installer.exe ]http://files.bioware.com/neverwinternights/modules_premium/InfiniteDungeons_Installer.exe [/url]
[url=http://files.bioware.com/neverwinternights/modules_premium/WyvernCrown_Installer.exe ]http://files.bioware.com/neverwinternights/modules_premium/WyvernCrown_Installer.exe [/url]

These are old premium modules you can't buy any more. Normally they would check your cd key against the master server to make sure you had bought them, but with the master server down they are going to open anyway.

Bioware wasn't always a part of EA. When they designed NWN they designed it to last. They made sure that when they stopped supporting it it wouldn't break. If the game can't authenticate because it can't reach the server, it runs anyway.

Don't use your GoG Kingmaker install as a test. When GoG started selling NWN the master servers were still u, so to keep their DRM free they added a shell to emulate authentication. Use one of the links I posted above.
Post edited February 02, 2013 by urknighterrant
avatar
urknighterrant: InfiniteDungeons
And yet in the very post you replied to I just recorded and posted a youtube video showing a recording of successfully authenticating online the module Infinite Dungeons!
You can't buy it anymore but I bought it back when you COULD.

http://youtu.be/E4mG5L2-9KI
http://youtu.be/E4mG5L2-9KI
http://youtu.be/E4mG5L2-9KI
http://youtu.be/E4mG5L2-9KI
but with the master server down they are going to open anyway.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
No. if they fail to connect to the master server it does NOT let you play those modules.
Post edited February 02, 2013 by taltamir
No. I saw it try to authenticate, then start. This proves what?
Post edited February 02, 2013 by urknighterrant
avatar
urknighterrant: No. I saw it try to authenticate, then start. This proves what?
that you have no clue how NWN authentication works. Fine, I will make more videos. BRB
avatar
urknighterrant: No. I saw it try to authenticate, then start. This proves what?
avatar
taltamir: that you have no clue how NWN authentication works. Fine, I will make more videos. BRB
OK, but try playing a mod you DIDN'T buy. Use the links I already provided. I recommend WcoC. Great mod.
Post edited February 02, 2013 by urknighterrant
avatar
taltamir: that you have no clue how NWN authentication works. Fine, I will make more videos. BRB
avatar
urknighterrant: OK, but try playing a mod you DIDN'T buy. Use the links I already provided. I recommend WcoC. Great mod.
1. I bought them all (edit: Actually all except Wyvern Crown)
2. What does the CD key validity have to do with asking whether or not the server is up?

Here is a successful activation: http://youtu.be/ImKGIeUqEQo
Here is trying to activate it without an internet connection: http://youtu.be/AGJ-YxQINSg

As you can see, without an internet connection it never activates.

3. In the past, trying to activate it with a non-associated cdkey failed.
However, I have just tried it with:
a. My unique CDKey from the DVD version which I had used to actually purchase infinite dungeons.
b. My unique CDKey from the GOG copy I bought
c. The generic CD key in a fresh GOG install

Infinite dungeons activated successfully with all 3, it was an ONLINE ACTIVATION at each time and it FAILED to activate if the DRM server was not reachable, but it seems the DRM server has been stripped down and now authenticates any request without actually validating (something it did not used to do a mere year ago)...

This, while interesting, has no relevance to our debate. You must still have an active and on DRM server and that said DRM server is currently active and a separate entity then the master server. If that server is ever shut down (or if you lose your internet connection) the module cannot be activated.

EDIT: I just tested Wyvern Crown, which I had not actually bought before the store was shut down. The DRM server validates it if I can connect to it. If I cannot connect to it does not valid it...

Would it be piracy for someone to play a premium module they did not buy? the premium modules are shareware. They run in a DEMO MODE unless you run them with a valid license key, however with the recent modification to the DRM server the only way to run them as a demo mode is to manually disable your internet connection or block NWN in firewall. Otherwise the DRM server automatically validates them even if you did not buy them...
Post edited February 02, 2013 by taltamir
If I remember correctly, when running a premium module, it tries to connect to a server to see if you the module is tied to your cd-key, but if can't it lets you through anyway. It let's anyone through now, as it tries to connect to the server, but's down now so it just goes through to the module.

I've never owned any premium modules on my CD copy and I able to play them all fine now, I wasn't able to before the servers were down, it now just tries to connect and then just goes through anyway.
Thanks for the backup Rhiyo. I bought them all too, but I lost track of the registered cd key years ago. I can still play them all, though, because the master server is down.

Taltamir, There has been no "recent modif ication to the DRM server". Now you're just making crap up. It is down. Offline. Kaput. No more. Do you honestly think EA games had Bioware spend time and money modifying and maintaining a DRM server so Atari customers could play premium mods? You DO know EA and Atari are competitors, right? Don't be stupid. They SHUT IT DOWN.

Your stubbornness on this issue is bordering on the psychotic. Is it really SO unthinkable to you that in just this one instance you might actually be wrong about something?

In fairness, I should have been more specific. You DO need to be online. You can't just unplug from the internet or block the game ports or master server IP and play the premium mods. The DRM guys at Atari aren't as clever as they think they are but they're not complete idiots either, they did think of that. The game has to try to connect to the server online and fail in order for the game to start. But your assumption that the master server (or this "other" server you seem to have made up out of the blue) MUST be working because the game is, well... let's just say you're not as clever as you think you are, either.

As for the legality of playing the premium mods, that's being hotly debated. But since the links I posted are hosted by Bioware, and since the bulk of the debate is taking place on the bioware social forums and they are staying quite conspicuously out of the discussion, I think it's safe to say whether it's technically piracy or not Bioware clearly doesn't give a rat's bottom whether you play it or not.

BTW, give Darkness Over Daggerford a play, too.
http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=modules.detail&id=5122
It was developed by Ossian (the guys who did MoW) as a premium mod, but Atari shot down the Premium store before it was finished. Ossian didn't want all their hard work to just disappear so they finished it anyway and released it as a free download on the vault.
Post edited February 02, 2013 by urknighterrant
It seems one week passed and still there is no solution :/
avatar
Rhiyo: If I remember correctly, when running a premium module, it tries to connect to a server to see if you the module is tied to your cd-key, but if can't it lets you through anyway. It let's anyone through now, as it tries to connect to the server, but's down now so it just goes through to the module.
This is incorrect. It only lets you through if you successfully connect to the server.
If you fail to connect to the server it just says "trying to connect" infinitely. Try blocking it in firewall and see for yourself or bother with the video I posted

In fairness, I should have been more specific. You DO need to be online. You can't just unplug from the internet or block the game ports or master server IP and play the premium mods.
And how does the game know you are online but the server is down rather then you not having an internet connection?

The only possible way is if it pings a website and gets a response (perhaps google?). This is something that can be verified...

Also if that is the case it means it would have been trivial to bypass such DRM as all you had to do is block the IP of the server (via hosts file). How nice of them to include such oppressive DRM yet leave such a big gaping hole in it
Post edited February 02, 2013 by taltamir
avatar
urknighterrant: In fairness, I should have been more specific. You DO need to be online...The game has to try to connect to the server online and fail in order for the game to start....
This is the significant point about NWN1 premium modules - they will still attempt to connect and still require a response (albeit a "port/host unobtainable" or something similar) before they will run. So there is still a dependency on a server which means they still have DRM - albeit one which can be spoofed more easily. If that server goes offline completely, they will most likely become unplayable.

As for MoW - I also purchased the NWN2 bundle to gain access to a DRM-free version of this. I appreciate GOG's feedback so far and am happy to wait on a solution. The agreement between Atari and Hasbro does allow Atari to develop some D&D games so MoW DRM-removal (which should qualify as technical support rather than development) should be possible, assuming Ossian haven't lost their source code.